Proposal: Fire sell Habs

[Habs Halifax]

Armia: Cap dump. Montreal will have to sweeten the pot with a pick.

Gallagher: Teams still likely value him. I could see Vancouver making a good offer to him to "change the culture" on the Canucks. Habs probably taking Tyler Myers back so Vancouver can fit him.

Petry: Terrible season, absolutely horrible, but he's a well respected RD that fits perfect as a second pair guy. Would get major offers and Montreal wouldn't have to take a cap dump back.

Toffoli: He isn't on fire like last season but he also isn't terrible stat wise. Would get a pretty good offer. No cap dump in return. Easily get a first.

Hoffman: Injuries, you just signed him, might be tough to move and get value back. Teams will want to get him at a discount.

Chariot: 2nd round pick probably. Good deadline deal.

Lekhonen: Never met his potential, still an RFA, makes too much, Montreal would probably be eating 50% in a deadline trade. Maybe a 3rd or 4th if lucky.

Dvorak: Only 25, signed for a few more years, could see him thrive on a team like the Blues or Sharks. Maybe Bonino and a pick?

Price: He plays a few games, still looks great, someone will pay a great price for him. I know 99% of HFBoards people won't, but 0% of them are NHL GM's and the hockey world still respects Carey regardless of price tag. Several teams would make big offers to get him if he's available, though the cap hit would likely make adding a third team to the deal necessary just to make space. I'm thinking Price to the Avalanche in the summer when they have the money available, maybe a stash of picks and prospects including Justin Barron, with more if the Habs retain.

Not all have to be moved ASAP either. We can review offers at the deadline, trade some parts, and then review trades on draft day as well. And then into the off season.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Question, would the Habs be theoretically interested in retaining 50% on Toffoli if we dangled Jakob Pelletier or something?

Gut reaction is no unless they think Pelletier is a great shot at a future superstar. Toffoli is already on a great contract with term and the Habs probably don't want to move him. If you want him retained for 3 years the add on Pelletier is likely significant.

 

[Boondock]

Gut reaction is no unless they think Pelletier is a great shot at a future superstar. Toffoli is already on a great contract with term and the Habs probably don't want to move him. If you want him retained for 3 years the add on Pelletier is likely significant.

I agree that Toffoli carries value, but if the baseline for a Toffoli trade is a potential future superstar the Habs rebuild will not include trading Toffoli. I think a late 1st + a middling prospect is probably realistic, future superstar - not so much.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I agree that Toffoli carries value, but if the baseline for a Toffoli trade is a potential future superstar the Habs rebuild will not include trading Toffoli. I think a late 1st + a middling prospect is probably realistic, future superstar - not so much.

1. Didn't say that a Toffoli trade is a potential future superstar, I said "unless they think Pelletier is a great shot at a future superstar". I don't think anybody categorizes Pelletier is "a potential future superstar" even with his production in the AHL.

2. I don't think Toffoli will be moved.

3. A rental Toffoli on a more expensive contract returned what was likely to be a mid-2nd and a middling prospect a couple of years ago, Toffoli with term probably costs more even without having Montreal eating 50% of the contract. If you want a team to retain over 3 years on an already very moveable contract, you have to expect that it will cost a lot.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Question, would the Habs be theoretically interested in retaining 50% on Toffoli if we dangled Jakob Pelletier or something?

We can only retain on 3 players and I would have that tagged with Price, Petry, Gallagher if we rebuild. Those contracts are hard to fit in with other teams and if the Habs rebuild and want to move them, we will have to retain to get any solid futures in return. We could retain on Chiarot at this deadline and then it expires at the end of the season. Because we won't be able to trade Price, Petry, Gallagher all in his this next deadline.

Toffoli has some term left and we don't have to retain to get good value. If we do retain, we are not giving a crazy good AAV for a top 6F who produces well for the same price we would get with no retention.

Pelletier is off to a good start in the AHL at age 20 but he don't turn the needle for me. Don't hate him but we already have enough undersized players as it is. Not the type of target I would have to be honest. Dube was also a pt/game guy in the AHL too. Both project to NHL players but more like middle depth type of pieces.

Habs had top 10 draft power over the last 5 drafts and this will filter through our system in the coming years (Those who make it). So my personal strategy is futures if we rebuild and sell on certain assets. Picks and guys who have not turned pro yet.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Question, would the Habs be theoretically interested in retaining 50% on Toffoli if we dangled Jakob Pelletier or something?

Another option we can provide... Your thoughts?

* Gallagher (Retention down to $5M)
for
* Lucic (Habs buy him out at the end of season). Would Lucic have the Habs on his trade list? I have my doubts
* Flames 1st
* Pelletier

I see Gallagher as a perfect fit for Monahan. Similar situation he had with Danault.

Imagine, Gallagher on the Flames and Price on the Oilers and they meet in the playoffs. Price be like...

 

[AmeriHab]

Another option we can provide... Your thoughts?

* Gallagher (Retention down to $5M)
for
* Lucic (Habs buy him out at the end of season). Would Lucic have the Habs on his trade list? I have my doubts
* Flames 1st
* Pelletier

I see Gallagher as a perfect fit for Monahan. Similar situation he had with Danault.

does he still have a trade list since he was traded to Calgary? Doesn’t it get effected once they’re traded once

 

[Habs Halifax]

does he still have a trade list since he was traded to Calgary? Doesn’t it get effected once they’re traded once

I think he does. This is what I found on Cap Friendly. Look at the clause details near the bottom. 8 team trade list this year and 6 team trade list the next year. And I suspect he would have to have provided his 8 teams this year before the season started. So are the Habs on it and if not, will he want to go from a playoff team to a non playoff team? Maybe he will get upset that he is being asked to be traded again and say whatever. Habs can also agree to buy him out at the end of the year and he is free to sign anywhere with a new contract and still get paid from his previous one.

 

[Flameshomer]

Another option we can provide... Your thoughts?

* Gallagher (Retention down to $5M)
for
* Lucic (Habs buy him out at the end of season). Would Lucic have the Habs on his trade list? I have my doubts
* Flames 1st
* Pelletier

I see Gallagher as a perfect fit for Monahan. Similar situation he had with Danault.

Imagine, Gallagher on the Flames and Price on the Oilers and they meet in the playoffs. Price be like...

I think the value of what you propose is ok, but the pieces don't work. Lucic has emerged as a real leader on the team and in the locker room (all jokes aside.) If we are pushing for a cup run he's staying.

My proposal would be Pelletier + 1st for Toffoli 50% retained. The retention on Toffoli allows us the glimmer of hope at signing Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Mangiapane next offseason while not having to fire sale other pieces.

I would go as high as Pelletier+Valimaki+1st tbh but my compadres wouldn't. Benefits of Toffoli: Familiarity with Sutter (his best statistical seasons) and Familiarity with Monahan (some of Monahan's best junior seasons.) Also he has playoff experience, is a right shot, and fits sutter's big=good mentality. His contract is already good value, but at 50% it's ludicrous value.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think the value of what you propose is ok, but the pieces don't work. Lucic has emerged as a real leader on the team and in the locker room (all jokes aside.) If we are pushing for a cup run he's staying.

My proposal would be Pelletier + 1st for Toffoli 50% retained. The retention on Toffoli allows us the glimmer of hope at signing Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Mangiapane next offseason while not having to fire sale other pieces.

I would go as high as Pelletier+Valimaki+1st tbh but my compadres wouldn't. Benefits of Toffoli: Familiarity with Sutter (his best statistical seasons) and Familiarity with Monahan (some of Monahan's best junior seasons.) Also he has playoff experience, is a right shot, and fits sutter's big=good mentality. His contract is already good value, but at 50% it's ludicrous value.

I would love to engage but I can't personally trade Toffoli with retention at this point in time. The 3 retention spots need to be kept open for Price, Gallagher, and Petry who have more term and hard to move in terms of other teams fitting them in

 

[Boondock]

1. Didn't say that a Toffoli trade is a potential future superstar, I said "unless they think Pelletier is a great shot at a future superstar". I don't think anybody categorizes Pelletier is "a potential future superstar" even with his production in the AHL.

2. I don't think Toffoli will be moved.

3. A rental Toffoli on a more expensive contract returned what was likely to be a mid-2nd and a middling prospect a couple of years ago, Toffoli with term probably costs more even without having Montreal eating 50% of the contract. If you want a team to retain over 3 years on an already very moveable contract, you have to expect that it will cost a lot.

Your first point seems like semantics. You stated that Pelletier wasn't enough unless the Habs think he has a great shot at becoming a future superstar. This would indicate that unless the return is for a player that has superstar potential - the Habs wouldn't be interested or would want more. You double down and say that no one thinks Pelletier is categorized as "a potential future superstar" (I agree) - and in previous posts you stated he isn't enough to land Toffoli, so again, not being a potential future superstar seems to be the reason he is not enough in a return for Toffoli, and I don't think a team will offer a return of a player that is seen as having a "great shot at a future superstar" - that was my entire point.

The comparable to Toffoli's last trade is fair, the Canucks did send a dump to LA as well so that made the $$ difference less, similar to retention - but for the last 12 games of the season not multiple seasons. I see Toffoli returning a 1st + from a contender (making the 1st a late one) and a prospect or comparably valued pick, but I don't see teams giving up their top 3-4 organizational prospects along with a high pick for a player like Toffoli.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Your first point seems like semantics. You stated that Pelletier wasn't enough unless the Habs think he has a great shot at becoming a future superstar. This would indicate that unless the return is for a player that has superstar potential - the Habs wouldn't be interested or would want more. You double down and say that no one thinks Pelletier is categorized as "a potential future superstar" (I agree) - and in previous posts you stated he isn't enough to land Toffoli, so again, not being a potential future superstar seems to be the reason he is not enough in a return for Toffoli, and I don't think a team will offer a return of a player that is seen as having a "great shot at a future superstar" - that was my entire point.

The comparable to Toffoli's last trade is fair, the Canucks did send a dump to LA as well so that made the $$ difference less, similar to retention - but for the last 12 games of the season not multiple seasons. I see Toffoli returning a 1st + from a contender (making the 1st a late one) and a prospect or comparably valued pick, but I don't see teams giving up their top 3-4 organizational prospects along with a high pick for a player like Toffoli.

It might be something about Pelletier size. A guy like that has to be very skilled and skate well to be able to provide top of the line-up impact in the NHL. Your getting a little sensitive with the Superstar word. Who really thinks Pelletier will be a superstar? And if he is not, we decline cause we are after a superstar only? It's not like that. Maybe we are looking at someone like Suzuki who was a fringe grade A (C/RW) type prior to the trade and did not turn pro yet. That sort of thing.

 

[Boondock]

It might be something about Pelletier size. A guy like that has to be very skilled and skate well to be able to provide top of the line-up impact in the NHL. Your getting a little sensitive with the Superstar word. Who really thinks Pelletier will be a superstar? And if he is not, we decline cause we are after a superstar only? It's not like that. Maybe we are looking at someone like Suzuki who was a fringe grade A (C/RW) type prior to the trade and did not turn pro yet. That sort of thing.

Not sure what that means, but I'm using the words from the person that typed the post.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not sure what that means, but I'm using the words from the person that typed the post.

Not trying to give you a hard time. I just see the world "superstar" and comment not being comprehended well. No, we don't expect to get a superstar in return. Maybe someone not turned pro yet who might turn into something like Suzuki.

Our fan base will try to get the best pieces we can get. You would do the same in our situation

 

[Captain Mountain]

Your first point seems like semantics. You stated that Pelletier wasn't enough unless the Habs think he has a great shot at becoming a future superstar. This would indicate that unless the return is for a player that has superstar potential - the Habs wouldn't be interested or would want more. You double down and say that no one thinks Pelletier is categorized as "a potential future superstar" (I agree) - and in previous posts you stated he isn't enough to land Toffoli, so again, not being a potential future superstar seems to be the reason he is not enough in a return for Toffoli, and I don't think a team will offer a return of a player that is seen as having a "great shot at a future superstar" - that was my entire point.

The comparable to Toffoli's last trade is fair, the Canucks did send a dump to LA as well so that made the $$ difference less, similar to retention - but for the last 12 games of the season not multiple seasons. I see Toffoli returning a 1st + from a contender (making the 1st a late one) and a prospect or comparably valued pick, but I don't see teams giving up their top 3-4 organizational prospects along with a high pick for a player like Toffoli.

Its not semantics. There aren't uniform opinions on the value or upside of hockey players. The Habs might value Pelletier a lot more than most organizations. Or they might not. Teams always make bets on the upside of prospects/young NHLers they acquire. Its more common than not.

As for the potential return for Toffoli, given his track record and contract, a late 1st and pretty decent prospect seems like the absolute baseline for a player like Toffoli if Montreal is motivated to move him (which they probably aren't). Especially when looking at the relative value of late 1sts in recent seasons (which is not that much). Retention for 3 years on an already good contract will increase the cost significantly, especially since if Montreal was inclined to to something to that, there are probably other players they'd prefer to retain on to move.

Teams likely aren't going to give their top 3-4 organizational prospects along with a high pick for a player like Toffoli, but Montreal isn't likely to move Toffoli for a 1st and a prospect or comparably valued pick.

 

[Vachon23]

Question, would the Habs be theoretically interested in retaining 50% on Toffoli if we dangled Jakob Pelletier or something?

Depends what come with Pelletier, but personally I'm inserted

 

[Kshahdoo]

Doubt, Montreal is gonna trade Dvorak. They just recently got him, he's young and signed to a good contract.

 

[Archijerej]

I think the value of what you propose is ok, but the pieces don't work. Lucic has emerged as a real leader on the team and in the locker room (all jokes aside.) If we are pushing for a cup run he's staying.

My proposal would be Pelletier + 1st for Toffoli 50% retained. The retention on Toffoli allows us the glimmer of hope at signing Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Mangiapane next offseason while not having to fire sale other pieces.

I would go as high as Pelletier+Valimaki+1st tbh but my compadres wouldn't. Benefits of Toffoli: Familiarity with Sutter (his best statistical seasons) and Familiarity with Monahan (some of Monahan's best junior seasons.) Also he has playoff experience, is a right shot, and fits sutter's big=good mentality. His contract is already good value, but at 50% it's ludicrous value.

While Montreal probably should keep Toffoli and trade some of their other wingers, your offer is solid. They might be tempted.

 

[rt]

To Arizona:
Christian Dvorak

To Montreal:
Travis Boyd
** ‘22 2nd (conditional)

**If AZ ends up receiving MTL’s 1st (conditions of previous Dvorak trade met), MTL gets the earliest of AZ’s ‘22nds. If AZ ends up receiving CAR’s 1st (previous Dvorak trade condition), MTL gets the latest of AZ’s ‘22 2nds.

 

[Gaud]

These aren't available for now.. $52M out of the lineup..

Crazy if you think about it. that is basically:
- 4 in your top 9 (5 of your top 12)
- 3 of your top 4 D (plus Niku)
- Top Goalie

After yesterday's game, Dvorak is out and Drouin may also be injured though he came back. That would mean 7 of your top 12 are gone. This is all roster players too.

I am glad to have a new start in montreal, but i can't believe how many people were blaming MB or are now blaming Ducharme for how bad the habs are this year when half the main roster is injured and its best pieces are gone. I actually predicted the habs wouldnt make the playoffs, albeit before learning that price and weber would be off long term, but i expected 10th place (ish) in the east. not this shit show

 

[Perratrooper]

I mentioned Lehkonen before and the ask was a 2nd from Colorado. Would a player like Jost be enough as a counter offer?

 

[Archijerej]

I mentioned Lehkonen before and the ask was a 2nd from Colorado. Would a player like Jost be enough as a counter offer?

No. We could take Jost to balance out the contracts, but as a main piece of a deal, he's of no interest whatsoever.

A 2nd would also not be a good enough offer for Lehkonen. He's not a rental.

 

[Perratrooper]

No. We could take Jost to balance out the contracts, but as a main piece of a deal, he's of no interest whatsoever.

A 2nd would also not be a good enough offer for Lehkonen. He's not a rental.

Geez, did not realize how high of a price there was for Lehkonen. I’m assuming the price on Dvorak is also pretty high? What’s the ask for either?

 

[Archijerej]

Geez, did not realize how high of a price there was for Lehkonen. I’m assuming the price on Dvorak is also pretty high? What’s the ask for either?

I don't see trading Dvorak as a realistic possibility. Habs can hardly afford to give Suzuki even less support than he has now.

Lehkonen is not really a player the Habs should be looking to move either, but they would listen. If they're getting an asset that is going to be better mid-term, they might pull the trigger. If they can't re-sign him beyond next year, they are going to move him for a 2nd at the 2023 trade deadline.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Geez, did not realize how high of a price there was for Lehkonen. I’m assuming the price on Dvorak is also pretty high? What’s the ask for either?

Is that really that high? Lehkonen isn't a rental, he's an RFA. A late 2nd+ is not really high, he's basically in the Janmark camp last deadline, but a pending RFA instead of a pending UFA.

Since there's no reason to move Dvorak now, the ask at this point would probably a recoup of what the Habs gave up for him (late 1st, likely mid to high 2nd in future draft).