Proposal: Fire sell Habs

Gaud

Registered User
May 11, 2017
1,713
669
That's what negative value means ;)

It means that you have to either retain , take a bad contract back or give a pick to trade the player . Positive value would mean trading Price for assets without having to do any of these things

I for one do believe the Habs would have to retain if they trade Price. The guy was indeed stellar and conn smythe worthy in the last playoffs but this is not about what he can still bring on the ice but more about his big money contract and the years left on them.

I get what you are saying, but i dont see Price as having no value and for the habs having to give things out to get rid of him. I see Price has having plenty of value but for the habs to get creative to make it work. Big difference. Team wanting Price pays the habs to retain, not the other way around.
 

Gaud

Registered User
May 11, 2017
1,713
669
It doesn't work that way.

There has to be a cost benefit calculation and frankly, it's not a good one for Price. If you trade him and retain half his salary, you also have to factor that it will cost you 5 million or more to get another goalie. So effectively you achieved NO cost saving and while you hope that mediocre return is golden, it won't be. Plus good luck finding that high quality goaltender to replace him.

If we had a youngster ready to go then the calculation slides to the other side and you trade him.

Trades are not simple or happen in a vacuum. .

you are right, and this is a problem in most teams.
however, Mtl may enter a rebuild and price's contract may not have as much of an impact if a lot of the players are young and cost controlled. It also depends on what they want to do with their goalie situation; they may get an old veteran goalie to play half the games this season with Primeau as the other goalie. Even if that goalie is Allen, the total of 15 milion (or whatever the total) will be reduced. Additionally, there may be a limit in years to how long we retain.
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
33,539
14,044
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
I get what you are saying, but i dont see Price as having no value and for the habs having to give things out to get rid of him. I see Price has having plenty of value but for the habs to get creative to make it work. Big difference. Team wanting Price pays the habs to retain, not the other way around.
Montreal left him available for free this summer and he wasn't taken. Price the player has value. Price of the contract does not (rimshot). If Montreal is open to moving Price, they will need to retain in order to get any teams interested, nobody who needs a goalie can afford an aging #1 goalie signed long term. The only teams that should be looking at Price are contenders, due to his age, and the only contenders that need a starting goalie are Edmonton and maybe Colorado if Keumper's inconsistencies don't straighten out. I don't think that is the recipe for great value. There is likely no fair ground on a trade for Price, as if they retain the amount that it would take for other teams to be interested, they will need to use their savings to sign another goalie, and that would put them roughly where they are now in terms of salary. They're better off to just keep him.
 
Aug 25, 2009
10,707
3,938
éal
Here is what I'd try to do. I don't think it's possible to trade Gallagher and Price unless the team retain a lot of money. And even then, so I scrapped those ideas. I try to see if there's any taker for Petry, Kulak, Armia, Hoffman but I'm not confident there will be many takers.

***

To Colorado :
Jake Allen (1 year left @ 2,875M$ after this season)
Jonathan Drouin (1 year left @ 5,5M$ after this season)

To Montréal :
Samuel Girard (5 years left @ 5M$ after this season)

Reasoning : Yes there is that chemistry history between Mack and Drouin dating their junior years. But I also think the Avalanche need extra secondary scoring and Drouin can provide just that. He's prove this year his mind is back in the game. Allen is a better option between the nets than anything they have right now. He could split the load with Kuemper.

***

To NY Rangers :

Tyler Toffoli (2 years left @ 4,25M$ after this season)

To Montréal :
Vitali Kratsov
Alexandar Georgiev

Reasoning : I read here the Rangers need an extra top 6 forward. Toffoli brings same sort of offensive power JT Miller used to bring to the Rangers, minus the drama involving him around the team. He's on a great contract. We know the situation surrounding Kratsov. I don't think the Rangers value Georgiev anymore.

***

To Edmonton :
Ben Chiarot (UFA after this season)
Artturi Lehkonen (RFA after this season)

To Montréal
2022 1st round pick
Raphael Lavoie

Reasoning : I think Chiarot is a brillant fit in Edmonton. He seems to like to play in Canada so he could re-sign there no problem. He was a monster for the team last playoff. He brings grit and toughness and he's okay offensively. Lehkonen I think has more value than people are ready to accept here, those feisty middle six forward great defensively seems to come at a premium (Coleman, Goodrow, Weise, Gaustad...).

***

To Pittsburgh :
Chris Wideman (UFA after this season)

To Montréal :
2021 4th round pick

Reasoning : Wideman could help the Penguins powerplay. He has actually been pretty good since coming over KHL even in his own zone. Could help a playoff team no problem.


Habs get this to start next season, which would be another tank year.

Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson
Hoffman - Dvorak - Kravtsov
Poehling - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta - Lavoie - Armia

Romanov - Petry
Girard - Savard
Guhle - Edmundson
Norlinder

Price
Georgiev
 

habsfan44

Registered User
Jul 26, 2006
1,578
447
1) Price at 50% retention or substantial retention is how we are able to move him to a contending team where they can fit him in. Trying to trade him at full cap hit is almost impossible... especially in years where there is a flat gap growth while the NHLPA pays off their outstanding balance to the owners.

2) I don't care about the savings if we are rebuilding and heading with a youth roster for several years while we rebuild. We don't need cap space in those years. Just extend Allen or sign another bridge gap goalie to play with Primeau.

3) "I hope for a Golden Return". That's your assumption where you tried to quote me on it which is flawed comprehension. I would expect a late 1st and Grade A/B prospect though (not playing in the NHL yet).

4) Trades are not simple or happen in a vacuum. Sure, I agree. Didn't say it would be simple. Once again, your making assumptions and trying to hold me to it. Go somewhere else with that BS flawed comprehension spin.

Here is a trade example I feel that the Oilers would be open to and the Habs get solid value to help start the rebuild (not a golden return):
* Price (Retention down to $6M +/-). I would consider full 50% retention... $5.25M
* Montembeault (if the Oilers wanted a cheap back-up to replace sending Koskinen/Smith the other way for cap reasons).
for
* Koskinen (Pending UFA... cap reasons)
* Smith (cap reasons.. Oilers can retain him if they prefer. Up to the Oilers)
* 1st round pick (likely 20+ range)
* Holloway (Fringe grade A prospect)
* Lavoie (Grade B or B+ type)

I would not ask the Oilers to trade any young current roster player (like Bouchard & Broberg). A very complicated deal but a platform to review and discuss further. Is this a "golden" return for you? :sarcasm:

Habs Cap Hits in:
* $5.25M for 4 years with Price
* $4.5M for Koskinen for the rest of the season
* $2.2M for Smith for this season and next (if the Oilers wanted to send that contract for cap reasons)
* -$750k for Montembeault
Total: $11.2M. No problem for the Habs to fit that in for the rest of the season. In the following season, it would be $10.325M for retention on Price, Allen, and Smith. Less salary than what we are paying this year for Price and Allen. We are not going to extend Koskinen.

Oilers Cap Hits in:

* $5.25M for Price
* $750k for Montembeault
Total: $6M. Creates a little wiggle room to go after other deadline depth moves. A healthy Price gives the Oilers a better shot at a cup which is why I have identified the Oilers as a potential trade partner. Would they like trading a late 1st, Holloway, and Lavoie? Probably not but Habs also are not desperate to move Price at 50% retention and give the Oilers a chance at a cup for free.

As a Habs fan, I feel this type of deal works for both teams. I would like to see the Oilers bring the cup back to Canada and Price helps them with that no doubt in my mind! I'd make a move like this if the Oilers can swallow that futures price. I would not consider that a golden return but I do believe it's a fair return and addresses cap issues which has to be part of the trade package in order to make it work for the Oilers in their cup run years.
You're very generous with other peoples money but I don't think you'll convince Molson to pay Price $21 million dollars$ plus to not play for the Montreal canadiens .
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
70,788
27,847
East Coast
You're very generous with other peoples money but I don't think you'll convince Molson to pay Price $21 million dollars$ plus to not play for the Montreal canadiens .

I would ask him if I was GM and he would have a lot of questions. And I would have answers to them that fall along with a well thought out strategy.

1) Price, Gallagher, Petry: It's flat cap years and if the Habs want to rebuild, we need to make tough decisions and move a lot of contracts with term out. Retaining up to 50% on all 3 would be historic moves but it's how the Habs can help other teams fit them in and we get some futures value in return. Up to $12M of retention for 3-5 years. Not afraid of it if Molson was on board with the financials. But this is not a small market team and we probably are still profitable cause fans in Montreal are suckers... still going to buy jerseys and watch the games. If some steer away, others come.

2) Move guys like Toffoli, Hoffman, Chiarot for decent value: Create a situation where we are forced to play more youth and we move to rebuild years faster.

3) Add the picks and futures from points 1 and 2 above on top of what the Habs already have and depth holes moving forward will not be an issue. Then add the top 5 picks we would get in the next 2 or 3 drafts.

4) Someone like Wright would be 22 when we are done with retention on Price. That's when the Habs should be spending to the max cap again anyways. Timing fits with me
 

jellybeans

Registered User
Nov 9, 2007
1,351
1,138
Here is what I'd try to do. I don't think it's possible to trade Gallagher and Price unless the team retain a lot of money. And even then, so I scrapped those ideas. I try to see if there's any taker for Petry, Kulak, Armia, Hoffman but I'm not confident there will be many takers.

***

To Colorado :
Jake Allen (1 year left @ 2,875M$ after this season)
Jonathan Drouin (1 year left @ 5,5M$ after this season)

To Montréal :
Samuel Girard (5 years left @ 5M$ after this season)

Reasoning : Yes there is that chemistry history between Mack and Drouin dating their junior years. But I also think the Avalanche need extra secondary scoring and Drouin can provide just that. He's prove this year his mind is back in the game. Allen is a better option between the nets than anything they have right now. He could split the load with Kuemper.

***

To NY Rangers :

Tyler Toffoli (2 years left @ 4,25M$ after this season)

To Montréal :
Vitali Kratsov
Alexandar Georgiev

Reasoning : I read here the Rangers need an extra top 6 forward. Toffoli brings same sort of offensive power JT Miller used to bring to the Rangers, minus the drama involving him around the team. He's on a great contract. We know the situation surrounding Kratsov. I don't think the Rangers value Georgiev anymore.

***

To Edmonton :
Ben Chiarot (UFA after this season)
Artturi Lehkonen (RFA after this season)

To Montréal
2022 1st round pick
Raphael Lavoie

Reasoning : I think Chiarot is a brillant fit in Edmonton. He seems to like to play in Canada so he could re-sign there no problem. He was a monster for the team last playoff. He brings grit and toughness and he's okay offensively. Lehkonen I think has more value than people are ready to accept here, those feisty middle six forward great defensively seems to come at a premium (Coleman, Goodrow, Weise, Gaustad...).

***

To Pittsburgh :
Chris Wideman (UFA after this season)

To Montréal :
2021 4th round pick

Reasoning : Wideman could help the Penguins powerplay. He has actually been pretty good since coming over KHL even in his own zone. Could help a playoff team no problem.


Habs get this to start next season, which would be another tank year.

Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson
Hoffman - Dvorak - Kravtsov
Poehling - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta - Lavoie - Armia

Romanov - Petry
Girard - Savard
Guhle - Edmundson
Norlinder

Price
Georgiev

Lavoie is not even close to NHL potentiel.
 

glenbuis

Registered User
Sep 17, 2012
4,761
896
I would ask him if I was GM and he would have a lot of questions. And I would have answers to them that fall along with a well thought out strategy.

1) Price, Gallagher, Petry: It's flat cap years and if the Habs want to rebuild, we need to make tough decisions and move a lot of contracts with term out. Retaining up to 50% on all 3 would be historic moves but it's how the Habs can help other teams fit them in and we get some futures value in return. Up to $12M of retention for 3-5 years. Not afraid of it if Molson was on board with the financials. But this is not a small market team and we probably are still profitable cause fans in Montreal are suckers... still going to buy jerseys and watch the games. If some steer away, others come.

2) Move guys like Toffoli, Hoffman, Chiarot for decent value: Create a situation where we are forced to play more youth and we move to rebuild years faster.

3) Add the picks and futures from points 1 and 2 above on top of what the Habs already have and depth holes moving forward will not be an issue. Then add the top 5 picks we would get in the next 2 or 3 drafts.

4) Someone like Wright would be 22 when we are done with retention on Price. That's when the Habs should be spending to the max cap again anyways. Timing fits with me
it'll be even more difficult in the future signing future free agents if you trade toffoli or hoffman against their consent .
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
70,788
27,847
East Coast
it'll be even more difficult in the future signing future free agents if you trade toffoli or hoffman against their consent .

We can't worry about that IMO. Free agents will take time to consider Montreal again yes but if we build a legit contender or a team on the rise, they will consider us again. Most would understand the direction we take if we sell, sell, sell.

If we really do want to rebuild, do it right. Don't nibble around the edges and do it half ass. Shanahan did it with Kessel and Phaneuf and we have more contracts to move than the Leafs did.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
23,279
27,416
***

To Edmonton :
Ben Chiarot (UFA after this season)
Artturi Lehkonen (RFA after this season)

To Montréal
2022 1st round pick
Raphael Lavoie

Reasoning : I think Chiarot is a brillant fit in Edmonton. He seems to like to play in Canada so he could re-sign there no problem. He was a monster for the team last playoff. He brings grit and toughness and he's okay offensively. Lehkonen I think has more value than people are ready to accept here, those feisty middle six forward great defensively seems to come at a premium (Coleman, Goodrow, Weise, Gaustad...).

***

Edmonton has no real cap space, you aren't taking anything back, and sending them $5.5 mil in cap?
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
23,279
27,416
Sure, management has the money to take some salaries back. Turris maybe, Kosknien? I don't know their situation.

If you don't know their situation, you really can't make trade proposals. Turris isn't much of a cap hit, and somehow they are going to trade their #1 goalie, not get any goalie back... and somehow this makes sense to you?
 
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glenbuis

Registered User
Sep 17, 2012
4,761
896
We can't worry about that IMO. Free agents will take time to consider Montreal again yes but if we build a legit contender or a team on the rise, they will consider us again. Most would understand the direction we take if we sell, sell, sell.

If we really do want to rebuild, do it right. Don't nibble around the edges and do it half ass. Shanahan did it with Kessel and Phaneuf and we have more contracts to move than the Leafs did.
you have to take that more seriously. players move families , buy homes , get kids set up in schools. Trading a signed free agent at the deadline in the final year of his deal would be acceptable ( chariot) but trading players in the first year of there free agent contracts ( hoffman , savard ) would come back to haunt us for a long time . a guy like toffoli may be interested in returning to LA for example if they were in a playoff spot but it would be very helpful to obtain his consent to a deal
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
70,788
27,847
East Coast
you have to take that more seriously. players move families , buy homes , get kids set up in schools. Trading a signed free agent at the deadline in the final year of his deal would be acceptable ( chariot) but trading players in the first year of there free agent contracts ( hoffman , savard ) would come back to haunt us for a long time . a guy like toffoli may be interested in returning to LA for example if they were in a playoff spot but it would be very helpful to obtain his consent to a deal

I understand where you are coming from but it should not be something that factors in the hockey business decision on what direction we should take and if you delay it cause your worried about Toffoli spreading word that we are horrible cause we traded him, you failed as a GM IMO. Lets face it, Covid flat cap and our unused cap space is how we were able to sign Toffoli, Hoffman, Savard. I value the Toffoli and Hoffman signings but not Savard.
 

glenbuis

Registered User
Sep 17, 2012
4,761
896
I understand where you are coming from but it should not be something that factors in the hockey business decision on what direction we should take and if you delay it cause your worried about Toffoli spreading word that we are horrible cause we traded him, you failed as a GM IMO. Lets face it, Covid flat cap and our unused cap space is how we were able to sign Toffoli, Hoffman, Savard. I value the Toffoli and Hoffman signings but not Savard.
whether it's a full blown rebuild , a 2-3 year reset or a 1-2 yr retool you don't start out by burning bridges. i'm hoping they bring in matthieu darche quickly before it becomes a circus .
 
Aug 25, 2009
10,707
3,938
éal
If you don't know their situation, you really can't make trade proposals. Turris isn't much of a cap hit, and somehow they are going to trade their #1 goalie, not get any goalie back... and somehow this makes sense to you?
Of course I can. It's a message board for hockey fans not the United Nations. People will exchange comment and it will create discussion.
 

Captain97

Registered User
Jan 31, 2017
7,794
7,523
Toronto, Ontario
The Guy has 2 points on the year and you need to replace those minutes. Was thinking a change of scenery for both would be good. Myers is 2 years younger. We can retain some salary.

Yeah no, Petry is having a bad year as is everyone. Also appears he's been playing with something nagging as he is now out with an injury. 25 games on a bad team doesn't erase 4 great years + a cup finals run. If petry is made available alot of teams would likely be in.
 

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