Proposal: EDM Issues #1 Goalie options

[McJedi]

Georgeiv doesn't have a 2nd for value anymore. He is too hold and cold. Not at all reliable. Just a few weeks ago some Ranger fans were offering to deal him for a 7th. I don't think there are ANY Oiler fans with an interest in Georgeiv.

McLeod is probably Edmonton's best solution at 4C. Ryan was supposed to be that guy but he hasn't done much at all. I doubt the Oilers reacquire Strome. That ship has sailed.

Lately the local media has floated moving RNH to 3C (temporarily) and Holland getting a 2nd line winger. McDavid - Draisaitl - RNH up the middle is the best in the league IMHO.

Georgeiv just impressed the heck out of me as an Avs fan. Avs absolutely shreaded the Rangers AHL call up, but a week later, the Avs put the same rubber on net against Geo and he stood on his head for most of the game. He eventually lost but made ten or so very high end NHL saves. So His ceiling is quite high. So he may run hot and cold. His floor may be low. But a hot Georgeiv would win a playoff game.

His ceiling is higher than Smith or Koskinen.

the OPs trade that makes the most sense to me is option 4. MAF and Strome. I think it costs the Oil more than just a 2022 1st and a non value asset like Benson.

Price is a non starter. He’s not realistically tradeable for a few more seasons. He’s most certainly not while facing his current conundrum.

 

[Chayos]

Georgeiv just impressed the heck out of me as an Avs fan. Avs absolutely shreaded the Rangers AHL call up, but a week later, the Avs put the same rubber on net against Geo and he stood on his head for most of the game. He eventually lost but made ten or so very high end NHL saves. So His ceiling is quite high. So he may run hot and cold. His floor may be low. But a hot Georgeiv would win a playoff game.

His ceiling is higher than Smith or Koskinen.

the OPs trade that makes the most sense to me is option 4. MAF and Strome. I think it costs the Oil more than just a 2022 1st and a non value asset like Benson.

Price is a non starter. He’s not realistically tradeable for a few more seasons. He’s most certainly not while facing his current conundrum.

I came across another option on cap friendly that I liked.

to chi: Yamamoto, Koskinen, 1st-2022
To Edm: Strome at 50% and Fleury at 50%

it will be at the TDL so the cash cost for Chi on Strome is minimal.

 

[Sniped90]

I think you can do a deal for Price but it would probably be more like

Price @1.5 million retained

for

EDM 1st
Lavoie
Kassian
Koskinen

This is more reasonable, Montreal gets futures and saves money in the long run (Koskinen is off the books in 25 or so games after the trade deadline) and 1.5 mill retention is more reasonable (similar to what Toronto retained on Kessel).

Theres no way oilers trade that for only 1.5m retained. Price is not worth 9m let alone 10.5m per year. Hes worth 5m per year if he bounces back and produces over a .907 sv% hes like chairot hes a good playoff goalie and hes had 1 good season and 1 alright season in the last 5 years (if you include this year)

 

[TFHockey]

Georgeiv just impressed the heck out of me as an Avs fan. Avs absolutely shreaded the Rangers AHL call up, but a week later, the Avs put the same rubber on net against Geo and he stood on his head for most of the game. He eventually lost but made ten or so very high end NHL saves. So His ceiling is quite high. So he may run hot and cold. His floor may be low. But a hot Georgeiv would win a playoff game.

His ceiling is higher than Smith or Koskinen.

the OPs trade that makes the most sense to me is option 4. MAF and Strome. I think it costs the Oil more than just a 2022 1st and a non value asset like Benson.

Price is a non starter. He’s not realistically tradeable for a few more seasons. He’s most certainly not while facing his current conundrum.

I watched him play against Edmonton and sucked so badly he got pulled. His ceiling is high maybe, but his floor is definitely low. I assure you he is not as good as Smith. He might be as good as Koskinen. Basically a back up. Oilers need a legit starter, not another B option.

MAF might be the guy Holland targets. I don't think he gives up a 1st to get him though. Holland doesn't seem to value goalies that much., and I believe he was quoted this years that he wouldn't give up a 1st for a rental. So there is that to consider as well.

 

[PlayMakers]

I'm still pretty sure there have been talks with Oilers and Rask.
People assuming Rask has 2 options, Bruins or retirement are insane IMO. He still has some good years left, and would suit Oilers better than any other goalie right now.

Rask is determined to finish his career with Boston...

Rask could play for Bruins in three weeks, Cassidy says

"I have been so lucky to be part of only one team in the NHL," Rask said in August. "For me, it's about that pride of playing for one team and one team only. I have no reason to chase the money anymore and go somewhere else. It's going to be one of those things where the Bruins are my home, Boston is my home. I've always wanted to play here, wanted to stay here, so the money won't be an issue. We had a conversation with [general manager Don Sweeney] and I will be a cheap goalie for them."
​

Sounds like a done deal, and a great situation for Boston. Swayman has also proven that last year wasn't a fluke so I would expect Ullmark to be on the move.

 

[Soundwave]

Theres no way oilers trade that for only 1.5m retained. Price is not worth 9m let alone 10.5m per year. Hes worth 5m per year if he bounces back and produces over a .907 sv% hes like chairot hes a good playoff goalie and hes had 1 good season and 1 alright season in the last 5 years (if you include this year)

5 million retained is ridiculous and won't happen.

Lets say maybe 2 mill retained ... that would bring his cap hit down to a more reasonable 8.5 ... if the Habs take Kassian back that effectively makes it 5.3 million for the next couple of years.

Plus Price's actual money owed declines even below that for the final years of his contract. Like for example for 2 million retained the last two years of his contract are only 5.5 million in actual salary, so if the Oilers really needed to move on, I think they could manage to do move that contract.

 

[McJedi]

I came across another option on cap friendly that I liked.

to chi: Yamamoto, Koskinen, 1st-2022
To Edm: Strome at 50% and Fleury at 50%

it will be at the TDL so the cash cost for Chi on Strome is minimal.

As an Oiler fan, if you’re comfortable with it, then go for it. I think Chicago would accept this offer in real life. Assuming MAF would agree to the trade to Edmonton.

Non oiler fans like me don’t quite know how to value Yamamoto. A few years ago he was untouchable to fans of your team, but his star seems to have faded quite a lot based on this proposal.

 

[McJedi]

I watched him play against Edmonton and sucked so badly he got pulled. His ceiling is high maybe, but his floor is definitely low. I assure you he is not as good as Smith. He might be as good as Koskinen. Basically a back up. Oilers need a legit starter, not another B option.

MAF might be the guy Holland targets. I don't think he gives up a 1st to get him though. Holland doesn't seem to value goalies that much., and I believe he was quoted this years that he wouldn't give up a 1st for a rental. So there is that to consider as well.

I got to watch Smith play for the Flames vs the Avs in the playoffs three years ago. He was quite good in that series but prone to let in a few stinkers and he’s definitely a hot head. He was older back then and definitely not getting better with age.

I don’t have any faith a 40 year old Mike Smith could win 16 playoff games or even remain healthy enough to play that many. Edmonton doesn’t have good depth or a particularly good defense either. So Smith would be facing a consistent amount of high danger shots. You’ll need an alternative option to Smith. Is that Koskinen?

Geo is a risk given his inconsistency but his best is enough to win a hard playoff game. I’m not sure what you’d trade for that. At least a 2nd plus a solid prospect if I’m the rangers. Solid doesn’t mean Holloway. Solid is from the Lavoie tier. Because a pick after 50th OA isn’t worth much so not enough to make the trade if you’re the NYR.

 

[remer]

Rask is determined to finish his career with Boston...

Rask could play for Bruins in three weeks, Cassidy says

"I have been so lucky to be part of only one team in the NHL," Rask said in August. "For me, it's about that pride of playing for one team and one team only. I have no reason to chase the money anymore and go somewhere else. It's going to be one of those things where the Bruins are my home, Boston is my home. I've always wanted to play here, wanted to stay here, so the money won't be an issue. We had a conversation with [general manager Don Sweeney] and I will be a cheap goalie for them."
​

Sounds like a done deal, and a great situation for Boston. Swayman has also proven that last year wasn't a fluke so I would expect Ullmark to be on the move.

Sounds about right. Even though Ullmark has a NMC he likely will be willing to waive to go to an organization that could get a chance at winning the Cup.

 

[bernmeister]

I came across another option on cap friendly that I liked.

to chi: Yamamoto, Koskinen, 1st-2022
To Edm: Strome at 50% and Fleury at 50%

it will be at the TDL so the cash cost for Chi on Strome is minimal.

why is CHI so generous here?

Theres no way oilers trade that for only 1.5m retained. Price is not worth 9m let alone 10.5m per year. Hes worth 5m per year if he bounces back and produces over a .907 sv% hes like chairot hes a good playoff goalie and hes had 1 good season and 1 alright season in the last 5 years (if you include this year)

In a vacuum he's worth 5.
In reality of super tight cap, without a super cheap super good backup, it is hard to justify 5 per given cost of legit backup will impact cap hit on club.

Ideally you pay up front first to have him flipped to a 3rd team, and then both reimburse that team and pay for them to retain about another 1.25-1.5 getting him down to 3.75-4.

That won't be cheap and ya gotta pay up front, but that is a comprehensive solution, and at 3.75, you can squeeze around 3 or a shade under for a legit backup so you don't run CP into the ground.

I watched him play against Edmonton and sucked so badly he got pulled. His ceiling is high maybe, but his floor is definitely low. I assure you he is not as good as Smith. He might be as good as Koskinen. Basically a back up. Oilers need a legit starter, not another B option.

MAF might be the guy Holland targets. I don't think he gives up a 1st to get him though. Holland doesn't seem to value goalies that much., and I believe he was quoted this years that he wouldn't give up a 1st for a rental. So there is that to consider as well.

reasonable except it ignores the track record reality that when Geo is the starter with regular work, he cuts the mustard.
It is only when he has to back up a superior guy who is taking his job and he gets rusty that his game falters.

If you admit that and factor in a reasonable risk-reward, he could be good and cheap gamble.

I got to watch Smith play for the Flames vs the Avs in the playoffs three years ago. He was quite good in that series but prone to let in a few stinkers and he’s definitely a hot head. He was older back then and definitely not getting better with age.

I don’t have any faith a 40 year old Mike Smith could win 16 playoff games or even remain healthy enough to play that many. Edmonton doesn’t have good depth or a particularly good defense either. So Smith would be facing a consistent amount of high danger shots. You’ll need an alternative option to Smith. Is that Koskinen?

Geo is a risk given his inconsistency but his best is enough to win a hard playoff game. I’m not sure what you’d trade for that. At least a 2nd plus a solid prospect if I’m the rangers. Solid doesn’t mean Holloway. Solid is from the Lavoie tier. Because a pick after 50th OA isn’t worth much so not enough to make the trade if you’re the NYR.

because we won't keep him long term due to $ and a cheaper replacement, and b'c we want to give him a good home pref WC so min bite back in the ass factor, we can be flexible here, not giving away.

Various combos
incl taking cap dump Kos back
incl whether or not Geo is retained.

Lavoie + McLeod + exp Kos
for
Geo max retained, NYR + WPG 2022 4ths + Reunanen

Reunanen is a good LD prospect way blocked atm

somethin like dat

 

[TFHockey]

As an Oiler fan, if you’re comfortable with it, then go for it. I think Chicago would accept this offer in real life. Assuming MAF would agree to the trade to Edmonton.

Non oiler fans like me don’t quite know how to value Yamamoto. A few years ago he was untouchable to fans of your team, but his star seems to have faded quite a lot based on this proposal.

Yamamoto has definitely faded in Oiler fans view of value. Bluntly I don't know what to make of him either. Is he a nearly ppg player we saw as a rookie? Or the guy who has no shots on goal in like.. seven games? Frustrating player.

What he ISN'T, and this shows the total ignorance of some posters on here, is a perimeter player. He goes to the hard areas but his size puts him at a disadvantage.

For the record a 1st, Yamamoto and Kosk for Strome and MAF at 50% each is way too rich for my blood. I don't like to see Holland lose trades and this is a loss for sure. Chicago already fleeced him on the Keith deal.

 

[Sniped90]

5 million retained is ridiculous and won't happen.

Lets say maybe 2 mill retained ... that would bring his cap hit down to a more reasonable 8.5 ... if the Habs take Kassian back that effectively makes it 5.3 million for the next couple of years.

Plus Price's actual money owed declines even below that for the final years of his contract. Like for example for 2 million retained the last two years of his contract are only 5.5 million in actual salary, so if the Oilers really needed to move on, I think they could manage to do move that contract.

Theres no way any team in the league takes price at 8.5m mtl would be lucky to have a team take him at 6.5m. Anything higher than 6.5 is completely ridiculous ask of a team.

Theres way to many variables in the way like is he going to completely change for the good or the bad now that hes clean from his addiction? He might just say screw it in 2yrs time and retire then oilers or whomever would be stuck with some of that contract on their cap for years to come.

 

[Chayos]

Theres no way any team in the league takes price at 8.5m mtl would be lucky to have a team take him at 6.5m. Anything higher than 6.5 is completely ridiculous ask of a team.

Theres way to many variables in the way like is he going to completely change for the good or the bad now that hes clean from his addiction? He might just say screw it in 2yrs time and retire then oilers or whomever would be stuck with some of that contract on their cap for years to come.

I think he wouldn’t count against the cap if he retired as he doesn’t have recapture.

 

[Qwijibo]

Theres no way any team in the league takes price at 8.5m mtl would be lucky to have a team take him at 6.5m. Anything higher than 6.5 is completely ridiculous ask of a team.

Theres way to many variables in the way like is he going to completely change for the good or the bad now that hes clean from his addiction? He might just say screw it in 2yrs time and retire then oilers or whomever would be stuck with some of that contract on their cap for years to come.

What are you talking about? If he retires there’s no carry forward on the cap. Him retiring is actually the ideal end rather than ending up on LTIR

 

[gianni]

Would the Oilers be interested in a package of Jaroslav Halak, Jason Dickinson, and Tanner Pearson (or Micheal Ferland) for Mikko Koskinen, Kyle Turris and picks?

Or something simpler like Halak for Turris & a pick?

 

[Sniped90]

What are you talking about? If he retires there’s no carry forward on the cap. Him retiring is actually the ideal end rather than ending up on LTIR

Because he has a no movement clause cap would still remain on the books same as if keith retired after this year chicago would be on the hook (Cap wise) for 5.6m that hed be earn next year

 

[Sniped90]

Would the Oilers be interested in a package of Jaroslav Halak, Jason Dickinson, and Tanner Pearson (or Micheal Ferland) for Mikko Koskinen, Kyle Turris and picks?

Or something simpler like Halak for Turris & a pick?

No

 

[Qwijibo]

Because he has a no movement clause cap would still remain on the books same as if keith retired after this year chicago would be on the hook (Cap wise) for 5.6m that hed be earn next year

That’s not a thing. Not even sure where you got the idea that it is. But a NMC simply prevents him from being traded, waived, or sent to the minors. It has no barring on the cap. If he retires his cap hit disappears.

as per cap friendly

“
What is a No-Move Clause (NMC)?

A No-Move Clause (NMC) can be added to a player's contract in the years after they are eligible for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency (7 Accrued seasons or 27 years of age), and has the following properties:

• Player cannot be traded without his consent (however, the clause can specify a modified no-trade clause that limits the NTC to a certain number of teams)
• Player cannot be placed on waivers without his consent
• Player cannot be assigned to the minors without his consent
• Player is not exempt from a buyout or contract termination
• The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers
  • This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)
  • If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified
• If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause
• 
  
  
• Chicago would be in the hook if Keith retires early because he had a cap circumvention contract. Price does not. The NMC has nothing to do with it

 

[Macheteops]

why is CHI so generous here?



In a vacuum he's worth 5.
In reality of super tight cap, without a super cheap super good backup, it is hard to justify 5 per given cost of legit backup will impact cap hit on club.

Ideally you pay up front first to have him flipped to a 3rd team, and then both reimburse that team and pay for them to retain about another 1.25-1.5 getting him down to 3.75-4.

That won't be cheap and ya gotta pay up front, but that is a comprehensive solution, and at 3.75, you can squeeze around 3 or a shade under for a legit backup so you don't run CP into the ground.




reasonable except it ignores the track record reality that when Geo is the starter with regular work, he cuts the mustard.
It is only when he has to back up a superior guy who is taking his job and he gets rusty that his game falters.

If you admit that and factor in a reasonable risk-reward, he could be good and cheap gamble.




because we won't keep him long term due to $ and a cheaper replacement, and b'c we want to give him a good home pref WC so min bite back in the ass factor, we can be flexible here, not giving away.

Various combos
incl taking cap dump Kos back
incl whether or not Geo is retained.

Lavoie + McLeod + exp Kos
for
Geo max retained, NYR + WPG 2022 4ths + Reunanen

Reunanen is a good LD prospect way blocked atm

somethin like dat

As soon as I seen the proposal I knew who posted it. I d give a 5th Rd pick for Geo and call it a day

 

[LeapOnOver]

lol, you're just giving away 1st round picks like it's Christmas (well, it actually is). A 1st round pick is the highest coveted asset in regards to drafting, which is the core of a franchise. Let's look at some of Edmonton's recent 1st rounders: Evan Bouchard, Philip Broberg, Xavier Borgeault, Dylan Holloway, Kailer Yamamoto, Jesse Puljujarvi. I don't know any Oiler fan, that would trade any of those prospects, just to swap a rental goaltender, every single one of them past their prime, and comes with cap problems.

Option 2 is comical, Varlamov is pretty much a Russian mirror image of Koskinen, but with another year left on his contract. Both 33, both .900 sv %, both struggling, but at least Mikko's contract ends this summer. Varly still has another year left, 5M cap hit. The last thing Edmonton needs is another past his time goalie with cap problems. And you're also willing to throw in a 1st rounder? lol. What happens if Varly comes in, and preforms even worse than Koskinen? Now we're stuck with him for yet another year, 5M cap hit and without a 1st round pick.

None of those options are viable imo, terrible for Edmonton and it's coveted 1st round pick. Might as well just wait until the summer, let Mikko/Skinner/Smith battle it out, and sign a free agent in the summer, without having to give up any assets at all, let alone a 1st round pick

Do you know any Oiler fan that wants another first, instead of a deep playoff run and a cup? There aren't any Islander fans (well prior to this season) worrying about a first round pick, lol.

 

[McVespa99]

Just to be clear... You're saying Edmonton fans would be so upset to acquire Carey Price for Koskinen that they would riot?

That's what you're saying here?

Without massive retention yes. Koskinens contract is up at the end of this year. That means taking on Price at over 10 million for the next 3 or 4 years. Not a chance in hell

 

[McVespa99]

Oil have zero cap you say. Habs have tons kicking around, with both Weber and Price on LTIR. Eddie particaly on injured list. What you give us to take 100% of Kostinen contract off your hands?

Very Very little. His contract is up at the end of this year so there is very little value in dumping him now

 

[jonlin]

Wouldn't he have to clear waivers for anyone but Boston?

UFA.

 

[bernmeister]

As soon as I seen the proposal I knew who posted it. I d give a 5th Rd pick for Geo and call it a day

5th not enuf

he now commands 2nd-ish level, +/-, w/w'o retention

I agree on 5th or 6th prior to him clearly showing obv good track record as a starter w/regular work.
If he did not have that, he would be worth a 1st+

 

[Captain Mountain]

That's a pretty unappealing proposal from a Habs POV. Much rather just keep Price.