Proposal: EDM Issues #1 Goalie options

[thadd]

Just to be clear... You're saying Edmonton fans would be so upset to acquire Carey Price for Koskinen that they would riot?

That's what you're saying here?

If they had any sense they'd call for Holland and Nicolson's head.

 

[Chayos]

I a

Let's be clear.
Carey Price is the greatest goalie to have never won a cup.
I take him over Lundqvist, Lugongo and Cujo every day of the week.
Heck, I'd take him over Martin Brodeaur.
He'd be the 3rd best goalie I've watched. 1st and 2nd being Roy and Hasek respectively.

Having said that.... until Price comes back and shows us that he's still committed to being the Carey Price we know and love... his value his meaningless. The idea of a team paying significant assets for him before he comes back and shows that he's still committed and capable of being a top 3 goalie in the world is downright insane.

m not as high on him as all that, but we are talking about a 34 year old nota 38 or 39 year old, so he will come back and play games before the TDL and they will be shaky with that patch job roster they are running right now. If he was offered at 50% for a first plus b prospects and Koskinen, do you take it?

 

[thadd]

I a

m not as high on him as all that, but we are talking about a 34 year old nota 38 or 39 year old, so he will come back and play games before the TDL and they will be shaky with that patch job roster they are running right now. If he was offered at 50% for a first plus b prospects and Koskinen, do you take it?

Nope.
I've met a bunch of people who were very different after therapy. When you take that shit seriously it changes your priorities and in many cases that includes how much time, effort and passion you put into your work life.
Nothing against Price. Hope nothing for the best for him but if Montreal wanted to trade him to Edmonton right now I'd want 50% retention + Montreal giving up assets.
Hope what I'm about to say doesn't come true, but for all we know he could turn into a back-up goalie over night.
This is the NHL, not the KHL.
These are by far the best players in the world.
I've caught up with some former NHLers in China while they were playing in the KHL. They're shells of their formers selves.
Even Mario Lemieux would have been a scrub in the NHL if he wasn't committed to being great.

 

[McSuper]

Just to be clear... You're saying Edmonton fans would be so upset to acquire Carey Price for Koskinen that they would riot?

That's what you're saying here?

Yes at 10.5 million fans would be mad . In no way is Price with 10 M + a year . Keep him . Avs fans have also voice the say things Edmonton fans have said . It only Montreal fans that thinks he is the greats thing since sliced bread .

 

[Qwijibo]

Nope.
I've met a bunch of people who were very different after therapy. When you take that shit seriously it changes your priorities and in many cases that includes how much time, effort and passion you put into your work life.
Nothing against Price. Hope nothing for the best for him but if Montreal wanted to trade him to Edmonton right now I'd want 50% retention + Montreal giving up assets.
Hope what I'm about to say doesn't come true, but for all we know he could turn into a back-up goalie over night.
This is the NHL, not the KHL.
These are by far the best players in the world.
I've caught up with some former NHLers in China while they were playing in the KHL. They're shells of their formers selves.
Even Mario Lemieux would have been a scrub in the NHL if he wasn't committed to being great.

Keep dreaming. Montreal has zero motivation to do that.

 

[thadd]

Keep dreaming. Montreal has zero motivation to do that.

What are you talking about?
Where did I suggest that Montreal should trade him to Edmonton?
I'm talking about why teams shouldn't be interested in trading for him.
Try to keep up, will ya?

 

[BlueBaron]

No. Rask hasn't played any professional games outside of North America this season.

Thanks for clarification.

 

[bernmeister]

There are a number of different responses checking off different boxes all over the place.

I got pilloried in a recent thread for pushing the envelope hard in an effort to create a win win win, in a construct where the need to retain 2x forced a large package 1 of specific deals and a larger package 2 of multiple deals.

Not surprisingly, everyone wants the best assets at little cost.

Everyone wants simple solutions to complex problems [an approach which rarely works in life], when in fact, increasingly, we are seeing multiple solutions initiated with follow up to refine/adjust from that result.
For example, a deal with JT Miller packaged with McDonagh was too unwieldy, but rather than back down, the parties agreed to a separate, follow up transaction.

The morass created in this thread prompts me to say, I told you so, and physicians, heal thyselves.

Howev, that would leave us all without being any closer to a constructive understanding and answer to OP's polite inquiry.

So I will post further below....

 

[bernmeister]

1. Options.
All in or measured.
All in the only one available is Price.
An argument can be made for MAF, but I don't see CHI going there unless there is a reasonable alternative in net AND a high enuf profit to move him.

LAK is in holding pattern. If enuf prospects emerge overnight, they don't want to suddenly have a kick ass team w/no G. So no help there.

 

[bernmeister]

I think the Oil need a 3C more than they need a goalie.

Though of course they want a goalie upgrade. I would wait until the deadline.

Not sure you want to/should commit futures for a win now expiring rental, but if yes, Ryan Strome is available. A package may drive the cost down.

1st round picks are coveted but getting a 31/32 OA isn’t as much as a blue chip prospect. Which means if your asking a team to eat Kosk then it will be multiple 1sts or a 1st plus one of EDM Blue Chip prospects. Honestly I go after Fluery and don’t give up the farm and hopefully address it in the off-season.

Or if you want to really roll the dice try for Georgiev out of NYR. It seems he needs to be the true number one to be successful and he just won’t get that there. Don’t overpay but at least with EDM the crease would be his to lose. Unfortunately he isn’t exactly cemented as true number 1 status. Perhaps a vet like smith can help the kid.

Fleury - CHI has no reason to do anybody any favors.
Also, when his reflexes are in sync with his game, he is dominant. He has demonstrated that. He has also demontrated the opposite. Right now he is fine, but if he should lose control of his reflexes and cannot adjust sufficiently, it won't be pretty.

Price there is concern but supposed issues with medication/treatment appear to be not abuse, but an isolated situation requiring adjustment.

----------
Georgeiv
overriding issue is we cannot afford him next yr as need every scrap of cap nxt yr w/Zib + Fox new deals. Comes w/rfa rights,
Yes, he is available, one price full pop, one price retained.
----------
Geo is a 2nd now or equiv slightly mo w/retain
Strome is a late 1st or 2 2nds, slighlty mo w/retention

Oil have zero cap
if a package deal where G comes to EDM
NY can take back Kosk as a cap dump provided doing so is not a freebie in the equation.

Perhaps former 2nds Lavoie + McLeod + 2023 + 2024 EDM 3rds + Kosk
for
Strome full pop [Kosk covers] + Geo at half + NYR + WPG 2022 4ths

something like that.

 

[bernmeister]

There is a wealth of issues that are holding the Oilers back and goalie is probably the most prominent one. I will be doing a series of Oiler Issues proposals, but I wanted to get the goalie one done first so I know what I have left to fill other holes.

Options:

option-1
EDM: Price at 50%
MTL: Koskinen, 2022-1st, Lavoie

Price is the riskiest of the goalies given the place he is at in his career, but this is what it would take IMO top get that much retained. Price also has the highest upside but is 34 years old, but given the age of all of the options this is not a unique issue.

option-2
EDM: Varlamov
NYI: Koskinen, 2022-1st

Varlamov is the youngest of the options and has one more year of term. The term is a plus and a minus for Edm given their cap constraints.

option-3
EDM-Quick
LA: Koskinen, 2022-1st

This an interdivision trade and would depend if LA drops out.

Option-4

EDM: MA Fleury at 50%, Strome
CHI: 2022-1st, Koskinen, Benson.

I would not pay a first for Fleury even with them taking Koskinen, but I would sweeten a first bit for Stome as well.

Price at 50% given term is not doable, regardless of whether or not in a vacuum he is worth it, due to tight cap w/no work arounds.
Esp true for Oil already have no cap space.

You need a third team for first get Price at half, who can then be further retained.
Then you need to both reimburse that team for acquiring Price in first place, then pay them for retaining further.

There is a split about Price being dealt by MON at half.

Idea of less than full retain on Price to like 8-ish is problematic.
It is tuf enuf to do 5.25 for a starter doing a larger # is that much more difficult.

 

[HuGort]

Not sure you want to/should commit futures for a win now expiring rental, but if yes, Ryan Strome is available. A package may drive the cost down.



Fleury - CHI has no reason to do anybody any favors.
Also, when his reflexes are in sync with his game, he is dominant. He has demonstrated that. He has also demontrated the opposite. Right now he is fine, but if he should lose control of his reflexes and cannot adjust sufficiently, it won't be pretty.

Price there is concern but supposed issues with medication/treatment appear to be not abuse, but an isolated situation requiring adjustment.

----------
Georgeiv
overriding issue is we cannot afford him next yr as need every scrap of cap nxt yr w/Zib + Fox new deals. Comes w/rfa rights,
Yes, he is available, one price full pop, one price retained.
----------
Geo is a 2nd now or equiv slightly mo w/retain
Strome is a late 1st or 2 2nds, slighlty mo w/retention

Oil have zero cap
if a package deal where G comes to EDM
NY can take back Kosk as a cap dump provided doing so is not a freebie in the equation.

Perhaps former 2nds Lavoie + McLeod + 2023 + 2024 EDM 3rds + Kosk
for
Strome full pop [Kosk covers] + Geo at half + NYR + WPG 2022 4ths

something like that.

Oil have zero cap you say. Habs have tons kicking around, with both Weber and Price on LTIR. Eddie particaly on injured list. What you give us to take 100% of Kostinen contract off your hands?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

You think Montreal is just going to eat $25M in real money for Lavoie and a first?

They'd be smart too. Its a good deal for their longterm future.

Wont happen because of the optics to more casual fans who don't understand declining assets and the value of cap space

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Oil have zero cap you say. Habs have tons kicking around, with both Weber and Price on LTIR. Eddie particaly on injured list. What you give us to take 100% of Kostinen contract off your hands?

a 7th round pick

He has better stats than any goalie on the Habs and he is a UFA at the end of the year. Considering his term he isn't a cap dump- he's just a mediocre starting goalie. The Oilers want to make a playoff run which necessitates something changes.

Hell the Habs could probably flip Koskinen at the deadline for a mid/late round pick from a playoff team looking for a backup if they retained on his deal for the last 20 games of the season.

 

[TFHockey]

Not sure you want to/should commit futures for a win now expiring rental, but if yes, Ryan Strome is available. A package may drive the cost down.



Fleury - CHI has no reason to do anybody any favors.
Also, when his reflexes are in sync with his game, he is dominant. He has demonstrated that. He has also demontrated the opposite. Right now he is fine, but if he should lose control of his reflexes and cannot adjust sufficiently, it won't be pretty.

Price there is concern but supposed issues with medication/treatment appear to be not abuse, but an isolated situation requiring adjustment.

----------
Georgeiv
overriding issue is we cannot afford him next yr as need every scrap of cap nxt yr w/Zib + Fox new deals. Comes w/rfa rights,
Yes, he is available, one price full pop, one price retained.
----------
Geo is a 2nd now or equiv slightly mo w/retain
Strome is a late 1st or 2 2nds, slighlty mo w/retention

Oil have zero cap
if a package deal where G comes to EDM
NY can take back Kosk as a cap dump provided doing so is not a freebie in the equation.

Perhaps former 2nds Lavoie + McLeod + 2023 + 2024 EDM 3rds + Kosk
for
Strome full pop [Kosk covers] + Geo at half + NYR + WPG 2022 4ths

something like that.

Georgeiv doesn't have a 2nd for value anymore. He is too hold and cold. Not at all reliable. Just a few weeks ago some Ranger fans were offering to deal him for a 7th. I don't think there are ANY Oiler fans with an interest in Georgeiv.

McLeod is probably Edmonton's best solution at 4C. Ryan was supposed to be that guy but he hasn't done much at all. I doubt the Oilers reacquire Strome. That ship has sailed.

Lately the local media has floated moving RNH to 3C (temporarily) and Holland getting a 2nd line winger. McDavid - Draisaitl - RNH up the middle is the best in the league IMHO.

 

[TFHockey]

Oil have zero cap you say. Habs have tons kicking around, with both Weber and Price on LTIR. Eddie particaly on injured list. What you give us to take 100% of Kostinen contract off your hands?

Probably nothing. Koskinen's contract is up and the end of the year. If a goalie is traded for he'll be in the deal. You're not going to get choice picks to take his contract off the Oiler's hands. Without him they have only Skinner to play goalie and (maybe) Smith.

 

[majormajor]

Not sure you want to/should commit futures for a win now expiring rental, but if yes, Ryan Strome is available. A package may drive the cost down.

Of course the Oilers will commit futures for rentals. And you should understand why they wouldn't want Ryan Strome (a player who we know can't play on a third line) or Georgiev (who can't tend goal any better than Koskinen).

 

[BlueBaron]

I'm not an Oiler fan but if I was I think I'd be hoping for Fluery. I think of all the names bandied about he and Price would be most transformative. Both would provide some post season swagger but Price and his contract aren't as easy a transaction.

That said Chicago is not quite out of the hunt and the Oil really need to fix this before their own post season is at risk. History being what it is I doubt they get a top tier solution.

 

[wintersej]

Thanks for clarification.

Krejci would, not Rask.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Oil have zero cap you say. Habs have tons kicking around, with both Weber and Price on LTIR. Eddie particaly on injured list. What you give us to take 100% of Kostinen contract off your hands?

Nothing. You get a capable goalie for the remainder of the season.

 

[Chayos]

Nothing. You get a capable goalie for the remainder of the season.

What, you didn't even ask him to pay the price of the transfer fee out of his own pocket. Geez I bet this guy doesn't have a horse either. Man we are never going to close this deal!

 

[Jerkbait]

lol, you're just giving away 1st round picks like it's Christmas (well, it actually is). A 1st round pick is the highest coveted asset in regards to drafting, which is the core of a franchise. Let's look at some of Edmonton's recent 1st rounders: Evan Bouchard, Philip Broberg, Xavier Borgeault, Dylan Holloway, Kailer Yamamoto, Jesse Puljujarvi. I don't know any Oiler fan, that would trade any of those prospects, just to swap a rental goaltender, every single one of them past their prime, and comes with cap problems.

Option 2 is comical, Varlamov is pretty much a Russian mirror image of Koskinen, but with another year left on his contract. Both 33, both .900 sv %, both struggling, but at least Mikko's contract ends this summer. Varly still has another year left, 5M cap hit. The last thing Edmonton needs is another past his time goalie with cap problems. And you're also willing to throw in a 1st rounder? lol. What happens if Varly comes in, and preforms even worse than Koskinen? Now we're stuck with him for yet another year, 5M cap hit and without a 1st round pick.

None of those options are viable imo, terrible for Edmonton and it's coveted 1st round pick. Might as well just wait until the summer, let Mikko/Skinner/Smith battle it out, and sign a free agent in the summer, without having to give up any assets at all, let alone a 1st round pick

Problem is those prospects aren't winning you a cups NOW....clock is ticking to capitalize.

 

[bernmeister]

Oil have zero cap you say. Habs have tons kicking around, with both Weber and Price on LTIR. Eddie particaly on injured list. What you give us to take 100% of Kostinen contract off your hands?

Price coming off and we would only then have Kost. if we did the deal I said sending Geo to Oil.

Since it is an expiring contract, I would not pay to move it, but you can have him full pop for like a 6th and we can roll with Kinkaid/Huska while prepping Wall and others for next season

 

[bernmeister]

Georgeiv doesn't have a 2nd for value anymore. He is too hold and cold. Not at all reliable. Just a few weeks ago some Ranger fans were offering to deal him for a 7th. I don't think there are ANY Oiler fans with an interest in Georgeiv.

McLeod is probably Edmonton's best solution at 4C. Ryan was supposed to be that guy but he hasn't done much at all. I doubt the Oilers reacquire Strome. That ship has sailed.

Lately the local media has floated moving RNH to 3C (temporarily) and Holland getting a 2nd line winger. McDavid - Draisaitl - RNH up the middle is the best in the league IMHO.

Otherwise fair enuf incl as to Strome return.
Howev,
the impatience of some is not a representation of fact.

Geo will always run hot and cold.
Howev, when he is not looking over his shoulder and when gets regular starter work, he plays well.
That is also reality and that, coupled with inexpensive $ and rfa rights, DOES warrant a 2nd w/o retention
more w/retention

possibly small wholesale discount if it is a package deal

 

[bernmeister]

Of course the Oilers will commit futures for rentals. And you should understand why they wouldn't want Ryan Strome (a player who we know can't play on a third line) or Georgiev (who can't tend goal any better than Koskinen).

fine, fine

just note that I quoted 2 posters, 1 who mentioned a 2C
and the other who specified Georgiev

also disagree
Geo is demonstrating he can cut it as a starter
it's when he worries about not being the starter b'c there is a better guy in front of him,
or
when he has lack of work
THAT is when his game goes downhill

he does not suck all the time
K does