D Cale Makar (2017, 4th, COL) Part 2

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Who do you consider to be better right now?

The dude is a huge WHL homer so probably someone from that league. I bet he has Ty Smith higher then Makar

 

[landy92mack29]

Who do you consider to be better right now?

I'd take Zadina, Glass, Tippett and Comtois over him then it becomes a convo with a bunch of guys.

 

[Foppberg]

I'd take Zadina, Glass, Tippett and Comtois over him then it becomes a convo with a bunch of guys.

Lol

 

[docbenton]

No offense, but having watched close to 60% of each of their games this year, Makar is way more dominant. I see Hughes as a guy like Barrie, puts up close to 60 points every season, but you don’t consider him a top pairing guy due to his defensive liabilities. Makar is more like a prime Duncan Keith with better offense and maybe not as good defensively, but skates like MacKinnon. He’s perfectly built for the modern day NHL and I can’t wait to start seeing him dominate the NHL starting as soon as maybe this season.

How dominant was Makar last year when he was the same age as Hughes is now?

 

[Goulet17]

How dominant was Makar last year when he was the same age as Hughes is now?

How dominant was Hughes at the WJC-20 tournament this year compared to what Makar did last year at the same age? You can try to spin these types of arguments in multiple ways.

 

[avsfan09]

How dominant was Makar last year when he was the same age as Hughes is now?

I think it's a mistake to go by production alone in this circumstance. Makar plays a more conservative game with more emphasis on defense first and was in his first year facing this type of competition. Hughes coming from USHL had played college teams and had experience with the competition and didnt come from the AJHL haha. He also plays a riskier game.

Btw I'm not trying to take away from Hughes. Hes young and experimenting trying to figure out his own limitations. These guys can be argued to he neck and neck but I think our individual homerism makes us a little too defensive of our prospects.

At this stage they are indistinguishable and it's obvious it's way to early to compare the two.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think it's a mistake to go by production alone in this circumstance. Makar plays a more conservative game with more emphasis on defense first and was in his first year facing this type of competition. Hughes coming from USHL had played college teams and had experience with the competition and didnt come from the AJHL haha. He also plays a riskier game.

Btw I'm not trying to take away from Hughes. Hes young and experimenting trying to figure out his own limitations. These guys can be argued to he neck and neck but I think our individual homerism makes us a little too defensive of our prospects.

At this stage they are indistinguishable and it's obvious it's way to early to compare the two.

Maybe now, but when he was drafted that description wouldn't fit him at all. He was a full-on rover with Brooks, sometimes even being the first player to break from the zone. He's obviously grown his game. But, his game never was, and still isn't defense first.

 

[avsfan09]

Maybe now, but when he was drafted that description wouldn't fit him at all. He was a full-on rover with Brooks, sometimes even being the first player to break from the zone. He's obviously grown his game. But, his game never was, and still isn't defense first.

I'll disagree. He's much more conscientious about his risk than Hughes. That doesnt make him a better player obviously but it changes how we should assess his play.

 

[93LEAFS]

I'll disagree. He's much more conscientious about his risk than Hughes. That doesnt make him a better player obviously but it changes how we should assess his play.

Makar is now. Same age is a bit debatable. Obviously where they play has a sizable impact on this. There is more room for error on a team like Michigan. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But, Makar's game in Alberta was one of the riskiest styles of play I've seen a defender play, it's just that his team was so stacked, and the comp level allowed him to do it. Both play a game style that is highly-aggressive for a defenceman. Makar is more direct, loving to rush the puck full speed up ice, Hughes can get too cute and tries to do some high-risk stuff while walking the blue line and creating passing options off the cycle.

 

[avsfan09]

Makar is now. Same age is a bit debatable. Obviously where they play has a sizable impact on this. There is more room for error on a team like Michigan. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But, Makar's game in Alberta was one of the riskiest styles of play I've seen a defender play, it's just that his team was so stacked, and the comp level allowed him to do it. Both play a game style that is highly-aggressive for a defenceman. Makar is more direct, loving to rush the puck full speed up ice, Hughes can get too cute and tries to do some high-risk stuff while walking the blue line and creating passing options off the cycle.

I agree. Makar tried to learn to play like a number #1 Dman last season. He definitely made an effort to focus on his overall game after coming from a league where it honestly was a little too easy. Hes showing now that his tools transfer and hes developed a better sense of balance for risk/reward. Hughes will learn this aswell he just needs reps. But their games are different enough that I think they'll differ a reasonable amount in how they influence the game.

 

[Goulet17]

Makar is now. Same age is a bit debatable. Obviously where they play has a sizable impact on this. There is more room for error on a team like Michigan. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But, Makar's game in Alberta was one of the riskiest styles of play I've seen a defender play, it's just that his team was so stacked, and the comp level allowed him to do it. Both play a game style that is highly-aggressive for a defenceman. Makar is more direct, loving to rush the puck full speed up ice, Hughes can get too cute and tries to do some high-risk stuff while walking the blue line and creating passing options off the cycle.

I suspect that elements of that style will remain and the Avs as an organization have certainly never been opposed to a more wide open, riskier style of play. It will be interesting what the Avs plan to do with Barrie, as I am not sure that Makar, Girard, and Barrie can all co-exist on the same blueline.

 

[Masch78]

Great ability and a righty. Avs franchise defender imho.

 

[landy92mack29]

Maybe now, but when he was drafted that description wouldn't fit him at all. He was a full-on rover with Brooks, sometimes even being the first player to break from the zone. He's obviously grown his game. But, his game never was, and still isn't defense first.

His freshman year he focused on playing a more defensive game(and his offense suffered)but this year he's back to being a rover. His skillset is so far above everyone else's though he can largely get away with it. Think he's going to have a big adjustment period once he turns pro and have a coach in his ear frequently

 

[Chiarelli]

His freshman year he focused on playing a more defensive game(and his offense suffered)but this year he's back to being a rover. His skillset is so far above everyone else's though he can largely get away with it. Think he's going to have a big adjustment period once he turns pro and have a coach in his ear frequently

I don't know about coach in his ear but I do agree maybe some time in the AHL which no one seems to agree with

 

[S E P H]

Nothing controversial about it. Quinn Hughes has clear limitations to his game that he needs to work on. Makar is better defensively, can play a physical game and has a better shot. He doesn't really have weaknesses at least not on the NCAA level, cannot say the same about Hughes.

Makar is also one year older than Hughes too and should look more dominant. I know you're confused, but when Makar was the same age and was in Junior A, Quinn was playing at Michigan as he accelerated his schooling early. Hughes is the better prospect even though Makar can do some things he can't, such as hit.

 

[Boonk]

Makar is also one year older than Hughes too and should look more dominant. I know you're confused, but when Makar was the same age and was in Junior A, Quinn was playing at Michigan as he accelerated his schooling early. Hughes is the better prospect even though Makar can do some things he can't, such as hit.

If you think Makar hasnt looked dominant at UMass you clearly know nothing about him. He singlehandedly turned one of the dumpster fire programs in the NCAA into one of the nations best teams. And hes doing it as a defensemen. Hughes is not better than Makar right now.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If you think Makar hasnt looked dominant at UMass you clearly know nothing about him. He singlehandedly turned one of the dumpster fire programs in the NCAA into one of the nations best teams. And hes doing it as a defensemen. Also both of them joined college hockey in the same season.

Lets not get too carried away.... Makar had a big impact in the UMass turn around but that team in general has been built considerably better in the last 2 years then it ever was before. Makar maybe driving that bus but he has a lot of passengers with him and as a group they're all playing very well.


I do think its a bit silly to claim Hughes to be so much better though, especially for the argument he used. Just because Hughes went to college earlier does not make him a better prospect. In his D+1 season Makar dominated the World juniors while Hughes was very underwhelming. Hughes is more productive in college in his D+1 season but also not nearly as responsible defensively as what Cale was last year and also playing on a better team then what UMass was last year.


There's some aspects of the game Hughes does better then Cale and there's a number of aspects Cale is better at. It's actually becoming a silly comparison between the two players because its becoming clear that they're becoming very different players in the way they approach the game and the skills that they'll have. Makar is more two-way oriented and more physically involved, with a better shot. While Hughes is much more offensively driven without the physical aspect Makar brings or the shot, but with more creativity in the offensive zone.



They get compared because they're both looked at by the general posters as small offensive Dmen picked high in the last 2 years. But that's not the player Makar has become at all. He's pushing 6'0" at this point if not slightly over and probably pushing 200 pounds at this point as well considering he was 187 at his draft combine almost 2 years ago now.

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

I’m a huge fan of Makar and he’s not even in the NHL yet. Loved him as a draft prospect, and he’s developed very well in the NCAA. I think a few things make him special, but it’s the combination. Amazing vision, sees plays other guys don’t, incredible agility and separation speed, but also his shot. Makar has a rocket, he can absolutely rip it wrist shit or slapper. He has all the makings of an elite offensive talent, Avs fans gotta be over the moon.

 

[S E P H]

If you think Makar hasnt looked dominant at UMass you clearly know nothing about him. He singlehandedly turned one of the dumpster fire programs in the NCAA into one of the nations best teams. And hes doing it as a defensemen. Hughes is not better than Makar right now.

Well, he singlehandedly did not do anything, the coach got a fantastic freshman class the past two years that included Makar, Leonard, Chaffee, Trivigno, Ferraro, Del Gazio bros, Lagunov, Chau, and Murry. Makar has been fantastic, but you're wrong if it was just one "player". Hughes is just one player, has the same amount of talent (even if you prefer Makar), and hasn't had the same results even though he's doing everything himself as well as being in a tougher conference.

I don't care about "right now", you base prospects on what they will do for you in the NHL and right now I consider Hughes the better player (that isn't any disrespect to Cale and the season he's having).

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I think it's splitting hairs to say Hughes or Makar is more talented offensively. I think even SEPH can agree that they're extremely close.

However, Makar actually plays defense and defends with the body and stick, he's shown clear improvement in this area both last season and current. Hughes plays like a winger in the D zone. He kinda plays the way Sam Girard does (which seems to work occasionally but is also occasionally embarrassingly horrible).

I personally think Makar is the much safer prospect (in terms of becoming, say, a #4 Dman at worst) and also believe he has the higher ceiling due to his physicality/defensive work. I don't think Hughes has that #1D ceiling. I think he's ultimately an elite #2/3 ppqb who lacks in the defensive department. Sorry not sorry. Hughes is a pure, premium offensive player though. He's gonna be a smooth operator in the NHL for a while and the Canucks should be glad he fell to them.

 

[cgf]

I think it's splitting hairs to say Hughes or Makar is more talented offensively. I think even SEPH can agree that they're extremely close.

However, Makar actually plays defense and defends with the body and stick, he's shown clear improvement in this area both last season and current. Hughes plays like a winger in the D zone. He kinda plays the way Sam Girard does (which seems to work occasionally but is also occasionally embarrassingly horrible).

I personally think Makar is the much safer prospect (in terms of becoming, say, a #4 Dman at worst) and also believe he has the higher ceiling due to his physicality/defensive work. I don't think Hughes has that #1D ceiling. I think he's ultimately an elite #2/3 ppqb who lacks in the defensive department. Sorry not sorry. Hughes is a pure, premium offensive player though. He's gonna be a smooth operator in the NHL for a while and the Canucks should be glad he fell to them.

I'm not sure that it is. Some of it could be down to their disparate approaches to the game, but I think Hughes is likely to average 5-10 more points than Cale consistently through most of their primes because of that slipperiness & creativity advantage he has. Both will be great, but one just a little (offensively) greater than the other.

Granted I'm thrilled to have Cale because I think his superior two-way potential & power, better complement what we've already got going for our core but I'm not sure it really is splitting hairs in this case. It's not a big gap at all, and with his shot & physicality, Cale can do some things offensively that Hughes can't...but on the whole, I do think that there's some separation there.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I'm not sure that it is. Some of it could be down to their disparate approaches to the game, but I think Hughes is likely to average 5-10 more points than Cale consistently through most of their primes because of that slipperiness & creativity advantage he has. Both will be great, but one just a little (offensively) greater than the other.

Granted I'm thrilled to have Cale because I think his superior two-way potential & power, better complement what we've already got going for our core but I'm not sure it really is splitting hairs in this case. It's not a big gap at all, and with his shot & physicality, Cale can do some things offensively that Hughes can't...but on the whole, I do think that there's some separation there.

Makar isn't flashy like Hughes which I think he gets dinged for here. His shot is significantly better and he's almost as good of a skater as Hughes.

 

[cgf]

Makar isn't flashy like Hughes which I think he gets dinged for here. His shot is significantly better and he's almost as good of a skater as Hughes.

Flashy is a loaded term. Hughes is slipperier, takes more risks, & does things Cale may not even try. Yes, all of that is flashy, but it also makes him more dangerous for opposing forecheckers in the open ice as well as opposing defenders in the opposition third. Kane & Gaudreau are special for the same reasons that they are "flashy", ya know? So I don't really understand why it's an insult to some

Cale's superior shot makes him more dangerous, as does his power...and I've mentioned that in every post...but on the whole I don't think Cale's advantage as a shooter negates Hughes advantages offensively. Which, (once again) still doesn't make me prefer Hughes to him — especially for our team — despite thinking he’s the (slightly) inferior offensive weapon. So I'm not attacking DW here, just explaining how impressed I am by Hughes' creative flare.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I prefer Makar all day.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Flashy is a loaded term. Hughes is slipperier, takes more risks, & does things Cale may not even try. Yes, all of that is flashy, but it also makes him more dangerous for opposing forecheckers in the open ice as well as opposing defenders in the opposition third. Kane & Gaudreau are special for the same reasons that they are "flashy", ya know? So I don't really understand why it's an insult to some

Cale's superior shot makes him more dangerous, as does his power...and I've mentioned that in every post...but on the whole I don't think Cale's advantage as a shooter negates Hughes advantages offensively. Which, (once again) still doesn't make me prefer Hughes to him — especially for our team — despite thinking he’s the (slightly) inferior offensive weapon. So I'm not attacking DW here, just explaining how impressed I am by Hughes' creative flare.

I guess I'm just not as impressed by the spin moves and other dipsy doodling he does, not that I don't think it's pleasing to the eye (he's very fun to watch). I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree haha just feel like Cale's no-nonsense game is going to be very effective and I'm not as confident with Hughes continuing to pull all his tricks in the NHL but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see!