No real TV. Both Jackets and Caps streaming it though. Last night I watched through App (casted to my TV) and audio on Caps247.com.
Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 2: Regular Season
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Why are people shitting on Eller? He's a decent to good 3C with good defensive skills. He also hasn't underperformed in the playoffs. CMM is great but he needs top 6 minutes not some quasi shutdown 3rd line minutes. Put CMM as a LW to Strome and put Mantha or Brown at RW.
CapitalsCupReality
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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Why so singularly focused on the one guy then? All this talk about the same formula, same plan, same windmill…..CMM over Eller isn’t really changing the formula much.Yeah, tons of panic in that post.
You implied others were arguing that CMM was the answer or entitled to something, which is an equal helping of bullshit to what you're rolling your eyes at right now.
No one thinks McMichael is the second coming. What people advocating for him clearly want is to stop committing to players that don't move the needle anymore. We've tilted at the same windmill four years in a row now with the same roster and the same result. Maybe let's at least pretend that we're interested in trying another approach.
With specific regard to the "McMichael vs. Eller" thing, what he hell was EVER so special about Lars Eller that anyone would want to curtail the development of a kid that's supposed to be one of our top prospects? Do we just like watching our best young players kick ass in someone else's sweater? That's a weird kink, but you do you.
The changes all you guys really want to change that plan, takes a big movement of players, not one young guy who has only proven for sure that he’s a future NHLer.
If he’s really proven more to the team, he‘ll win a roster spot.
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Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Absolutely. If that's how it shakes out, good for him, and CMM will play wherever's most appropriate.
I'd prefer he stay in Washington, but he DOES have to earn it and we have an overabundance of forwards. It's a bad time to do anything but shine. If that's what happens, that's on him.
What I'm opposed to is tying up millions in guys we don't need anymore. You can argue experience or insurance or depth or whatever else, but sinking $5m into two forwards we don't need when there are other, more pressing needs and improvement possibilities out there seems wasteful to me.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
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Yeah, tons of panic in that post.
You implied others were arguing that CMM was the answer or entitled to something, which is an equal helping of bullshit to what you're rolling your eyes at right now.
No one thinks McMichael is the second coming. What people advocating for him clearly want is to stop committing to players that don't move the needle anymore. We've tilted at the same windmill four years in a row now with the same roster and the same result. Maybe let's at least pretend that we're interested in trying another approach.
With specific regard to the "McMichael vs. Eller" thing, what he hell was EVER so special about Lars Eller that anyone would want to curtail the development of a kid that's supposed to be one of our top prospects? Do we just like watching our best young players kick ass in someone else's sweater? That's a weird kink, but you do you.
Panic...irritation...disagreement...complaining....whatever.
You can bristle at one or two words you don't like or put words in my mouth but the facts remain the same: the team is committed to a specific window of contracts and is giving Lavi and the "veteran core" a full opportunity to deliver during that window.
If CMM or anyone else clearly outplays one of the veterans, friggin great. I love it. The sooner the better.
But I'm not pissing my pants and whining about f***ing lines during the 2nd preseason game because of some imagined, vast anti-youth conspiracy or unsupported theories about the organization having no clue how to evaluate speed/skill/age/etc. That's just dumbass fan talk coming from the ubiquitous knowitallism present in today's google culture.
Whether or not you personally are involved in that doesn't matter, but if you feel the need to distance yourself from that sort of thing, knock yourself out.
Me doing me is just facing reality.
So again, going in circles here. Not talking about what you think I'm talking about, apparently.
Moving on.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Being honest about where his game is right now isn't shitting on him. Settling for a "decent to good 3C with good defensive skills" is a choice that lacks ambition. I want a better 3C than that, and I don't care who it is. Everyone's bitching about 1st-round exits and yet they want to settle for "decent to good" in important positions.
There isn't really a better 3C option available right now. Unless Strome, Oshie or CMM go there and that's a waste of offense. Maybe Protas is able to fill a similar role. If he does, problem solved, if not there's not many options open to the Caps and 3C is not the reason the Caps exit in the first round.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
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Nobody's settling for anything. Most seem to be waiting for guys to clearly stake their claim to roster spots, and are avoiding shitting on older players just because they're older.
There's a lot of confirmation bias and reliance on fancy stats driving this whole narrative, and anyone who doesn't freak out over preseason lines gets accused of being a management apologist for some reason.
But going back to Eller, let's be honest...he and Carlson were dogshit toward the end of the FLA series. I would've been fine with moving on from both of them this offseason. But that's not in the cards. Not yet.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
It has to start somewhere, sometime. Doing the same shit with the same guys over and over again isn't a better plan. Great teams embrace turnover. They don't wait until contracts expire or situations become untenable or a coach wears out his welcome.
I'm focused on Eller because that's the spot that needs it. We did the goalie thing (not because we're great but because contracts expired and situations finally became untenable) and added another good guy, but the glaring spot that's begging for turnover is still occupied buy a guy that hasn't moved a needle since 2018. He's fine, but we need more from every spot possible if we want to stop golfing in April.
And to be clear, when Eller does go, there'll be another one or more to focus on because that's how it's supposed to work. You're not supposed to just watch your team get their AARP cards if you want to win things.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Glad we're back on the same page. This is the only bit I disagree with. I don't think Eller's old, and I think he'd be a fine 3C for a middling team and a stellar 4C for anyone. That's where he is now.
We stumbled into an overabundance of solid wings that can score. Wouldn't mind a 3C that can help them do that, given that depth scoring is primed to be our biggest problem now that we've shored up our goalies. Eller isn't that guy. Never was. And we're at a point now where that shortcoming is a real problem.
Doesn't mean I want a defensive liability out there doing the job. Hopefully someone'll step in that can do both so we won't miss Lars as much. But we can't miss him at all (or spend his 3.5m where it's actually needed) until we let him go.
CapitalsCupReality
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Nope….sorry….you either implement a plan or you don’t…..you certainly don’t half ass it with a tinkering move that moves no needle with regards to playoff success…. I mean that’s you guy’s big argument, we’ve lost in the playoffs….what you really want is major turnover of the roster and we’re just not there yet, so you guys will have to have a little patience.
Your problem is with the organizational plan. IMO they chose long ago to ride this core until it can’t be a playoff qualifier again. That time seems near.
what’s wrong with wanting CMM to do what we’re seemingly seeing with Protas right now?
…a guy kicking ass in camp and appears to at least early, be laying claim to a roster spot.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
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Not to mention the same people clamoring for these drastic moves are also first to shit on GMBM for not getting value for whoever we trade away. Why? Because they think they can run the team from their laptops.
Can't have it both ways. Either these cast-off players have value or they don't. If they have value then why are we trading them away again? If they don't have value then you can't bitch about the return on a roster clearing move or salary dump.
That said now everyone will suddenly be OK with a negative net return just to sweep Eller out and put CMM in. LOL
And Twabby will remind us of his "trade high" strategy for 2nd year d-men and Tom Wilson. haha
I really don’t see it as same thing, except the PP… Wish they would change that.
But think about how many youngsters got to play last year. Fever and CCM were full season players. Snively, Leason, and AJF all got a fair number of games. Lappy made the opening roster. That is different.
This year, we have all new goaltenders. Switched up the 3D and got cheaper and younger. Brought in good Top 9 players in Strome and Brown. Snively will be on roster. Could be a battle for 4LW and 3LD. Fair amount of change.
Next year will be even more change with lots of expiring contracts including Lavi’s. So to me it has already started somewhere, sometime.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Is it half-assing it to identify a weakness and address it? "The plan" doesn't include making necessary changes as they arise? All great teams keep all players until the end of their contracts? And they do the same with coaches?
You know that's not even close to accurate. So if your point is to accept reality; that these are the choices they made and we have to live with them no matter what, then yeah. Of course we have to do that.
But if the point is that this is how it's done or that it appears to be their plan and it's somehow justifiable, no. That doesn't add up. It's very much NOT how it's done if you want to win, and if you can show me a justifiable reason to settle for lackluster performance when there were plenty of alternatives (however risky or expensive or whatever else they may be), I'll shut up about it.
But until then, yeah, we need more from that position and there were plenty of ways to push for it that don't include tying up 3.5m in the guy that's making it a problem to begin with.
He's fine. Acceptable. But you won't find teams fitting that description playing many games in June.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Hey now, I've been a GMBM supporter from the jump, and I don't think this is a drastic move. This team doesn't live and die over Lars Eller. I think hyperbole is hurting this discussion on both sides, and I'm just as guilty.
I'm being harsh about Eller to drive home a point. I stand by the idea that he's not the near-prototypical 3C he once was. He's not been that in a while. And when the kid stepped in for him last year, he looked good. That he proved it in NHL games that count means more to me than the manufactured competition of camp or the up-and-down and suspect compete level of preseason games.
I'm not reacting to preseason lines or camp reports. The only thing I'm listening for in that regard is, "Wow, Eller looks like a new man in camp so far!" or that our C prospects are shitting the bed. Short of that, my opinion on this is where it was last season: Our 3C spot needs an upgrade. Someone clicking in that spot could ignite a line that's been shit offensively for a long time. Depth scoring is a real problem for us when it counts.
I don't think those are unreasonable statements to make.
twabby
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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They have a lot more weaknesses than tinkering with a 3c spot that pretty assuredly won’t change their playoff fortunes.
This team is not built to win a lot of games in June. I thought that was apparent already.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
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I'll again reiterate that with such a meat and potatoes approach offensively with such prominence given to activating D upgrading the 1LD spot is the easiest route to near-term contention. Easier said than done, of course. I don't know if that's Chychrun with his injury history but something along those lines. Perhaps Sanheim, though I'm not sure he quite meets the mark needed.
They could use more star potential up front obviously but then I'm not sure it would be maximized. A Patrick Kane type talent would still do his thing regardless but stars with swag on that level are rare. The cookie-cutterness up front is I think an issue without an easy answer. The work ethic of Brown & Protas can help. Strome can bring some balance. But I don't know if the front office is selective enough getting that mix right. The current mix is fine but they look to need more of a slippery element that's hard to figure where it'll come from.
They could use more star potential up front obviously but then I'm not sure it would be maximized. A Patrick Kane type talent would still do his thing regardless but stars with swag on that level are rare. The cookie-cutterness up front is I think an issue without an easy answer. The work ethic of Brown & Protas can help. Strome can bring some balance. But I don't know if the front office is selective enough getting that mix right. The current mix is fine but they look to need more of a slippery element that's hard to figure where it'll come from.
Langway
In den Wolken
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I don't think he's explosive enough. He's along the lines of Sheary, which is fine but not much more. Their most slippery forward remains Kuznetsov but they don't really have anyone else. Nor do they seem overly inclined to prioritize it if it comes at the expense of defense/checking. It's the main dilemma behind the Vrana trade, even if it was sensible at the time. It's hard to see them being a real handful for teams without a greater degree of that needed contrast.
I had to listen to the game on the radio, so I didn't see it. But it sounded like CMM got plenty of opportunities to earn a spot but failed to impress (again)?
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SecretaryofDefense5
Registered User
Because his underlying numbers were garbage the last two years.
Apparent but depressing.
RedRocking
Registered User
From what I’ve seen of Lappy, he seems to have that kind of creativity and slipperiness that I am not really seeing out of our other prospects, including CMM (which is disappointing, but he had bright spots last year).
But Jimi is a couple years away obviously.
I agree - the cycling, outside-in approach to a lot of the offense is lacking real dynamic play drivers that can pressure and create single-handedly.
This old core’s best strength, at this point, is that they know one another so well and can exploit that experience to get their playmaking chemistry working - but it comes and goes, as the slog of the season wears on their old legs.
SecretaryofDefense5
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