C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV

[Frolov 6'3]

It's not an opinion its a fact that almost every single 2nd overall pick forward makes the NHL in their D+1. I believe since 2000 the only ones not to play in the NHL (unless it was their own choice) are Bobby Ryan and Jason Spezza.

You can also keep saying his performances were good internationally, but again for a top 2 talent no they certainly haven't been and theres been plenty of info to back that up.

It certainly isnt racism like a couple posters like to keep saying

Like another poster said, he wasnt going to be in the NHL anyway.

Last player was Reinhart and not being in the NHL has nothing to do with how he will turn out. How is that even an argument for some. Neither are his performances at junior tourneys, despite the fact its never a bad thing if he had dominated there....obviously.

Neither do I say, he did dominate but I am against the negativity that he was horrible. There is a grey area but not for you.

I do no see the untapped potential yet but playing more than okay in the AHL says already more than those tourneys.

If Byfield ever hit NHL surface with PPG seasons, people will still come up with his IQ. We could all witness this a couple of posts ago.

“Nothing I've seen from him has made me change my mind. It does not mean that he will not be able to be a solid center at the NHL level, but it is what it is.”

Well ok, Byfield in a nutshell..​

 

[staveNsteel]

It's not an opinion its a fact that almost every single 2nd overall pick forward makes the NHL in their D+1. I believe since 2000 the only ones not to play in the NHL (unless it was their own choice) are Bobby Ryan and Jason Spezza.

You can also keep saying his performances were good internationally, but again for a top 2 talent no they certainly haven't been and theres been plenty of info to back that up.

It certainly isnt racism like a couple posters like to keep saying

So what you're saying is, that since most 2nd overall picks make the NHL in their first season, Byfield, if not following the same path, is a disappointment?

Is it possible that Byfield may have made the NHL if the NHL, OHL, training, etc didn't take a lengthy Covid hiatus?

Do the Kings need him on their roster currently? If 2nd overall Byfield came in and out up 50points as a rookie, is this team a Stanley Cup contender?

Yes, historically 2nd overall picks jump right into the NHL and often play a big role for better or for worse. However in this situation, the Kings get a rare opportunity to play a North American kid against AHL competition to better develop his game.

He doesn't need to jump into the pressures of the NHL, nor prove that he's above the OHL competition. He gets a cool middle ground on a bad/young team where he can get used to professional hockey without the lofty expectations (a la Lafreniere), that he should come in and be some sort of immediate saviour.

I remember Barkov and Draisaitl getting very similar criticism.. and after a few years of development (different paths) they have become large bodied dominant C's for their respective teams.

I forsee a similar path for Byfield, where nay sayers such as yourself will attempt to look smarter than the room, pointing out the flaws of a young 18yr old playing in some international tournaments and a men's professional hockey team (where he now sits right there atop the points board for that squad).. only to jump to the next target in a few years, once Byfield comes out swinging, and your comments are long forgotten.

 

[Fatass]

It's not an opinion its a fact that almost every single 2nd overall pick forward makes the NHL in their D+1. I believe since 2000 the only ones not to play in the NHL (unless it was their own choice) are Bobby Ryan and Jason Spezza.

You can also keep saying his performances were good internationally, but again for a top 2 talent no they certainly haven't been and theres been plenty of info to back that up.

It certainly isnt racism like a couple posters like to keep saying

Byfield, although a big boy, is still just a boy. He’s got a lot of physical maturing to do still.

 

[Vagrant]

he reminds me so much of eric staal when he first came into the league. he's gangly and doesn't seem to have a ton of fire in his belly and that's going to be off-putting to some folks. he's just not jump off the page visible until he scores. easy stride. looks like he might be easy to take off his game but his drive is internalized and he puts the pressure on himself to do more. leader by example rather than being highly vocal. the kings are going to have to really emphasize making him feel less like an other since his path was so historically unique and what they did in terms of surrounding him with DSP in particular was exceptional. a former stanley cup champion that everyone in the room, regardless of all other factors, would be wise to consult regarding how to make it work at the next level. watching him in that leadership role will prove what is possible for byfield. try to bring him out of his shell a bit and get comfortable with the idea that if he's going to be his team's best player, he's going to assume a leadership role regardless. that it's okay to hold others accountable just the same as it is for any player.

i think it would be silly to assume that he's not in the league because he's not talented enough yet. the kings just know what they have here in talent and want to maximize it by bringing him along in other aspects that will strengthen his game and insulate him to a degree. as a black player, he's going to have to be twice as mature and twice as tolerant as his teammates because of how clique oriented hockey rooms are and even the most well-meaning kids probably kept their distance because of his top prospect status as much as his color. he's in uncharted territory as the first black mega-prospect and that's going to mean some non-traditional techniques in development because his experience was so different. it's a tough road with all the eyeballs of being a potential top pick in your class and that's without having the additional race dynamic. he's going to learn some techniques for adjusting to different rooms from a guy that has been a part of a lot of them. what to do in the instance you think a player or group of players don't like you. how to respond to gaslighting and subtle racism. how to respond to fans saying horrible things to him. how to make friends and learning who you can trust. it's a lot to take in that most other kids barely have to consider.

 

[King'sPawn]

Im pretty sure I recall reading that he wont be NHL ready before the Draft even took place
Maybe more 1st and 2nd overalls should get sent down. last few years has there really been anyone like McDavid, Eichel or Matthews?
We have grown to expect these kids to make an impact straight out of the gate but its just not that realistic anymore
NHL has been trending into a smaller, faster more skilled league. most kids 1st, 2nd or 3rd overalls will likely need time to develop.

Taking time before jumping into the NHL as a top pick needs to be normalized.

The NHL is not a developmental league. Sure, players grow there, but that's when you don't feel they would benefit from minor/junior.

Byfield is benefitting in the AHL.

Granted, I'd love for him to be putting up numbers like Stutzle in the NHL now. All Kings fans would.

But we knew going in he's very far from a finished product and was furthest from being NHL ready compared to the top-3. And that's fine.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Like another poster said, he wasnt going to be in the NHL anyway.

Last player was Reinhart and not being in the NHL has nothing to do with how he will turn out. How is that even an argument for some. Neither are his performances at junior tourneys, despite the fact its never a bad thing if he had dominated there....obviously.

Neither do I say, he did dominate but I am against the negativity that he was horrible. There is a grey area but not for you.

I do no see the untapped potential yet but playing more than okay in the AHL says already more than those tourneys.

If Byfield ever hit NHL surface with PPG seasons, people will still come up with his IQ. We could all witness this a couple of posts ago.

“Nothing I've seen from him has made me change my mind. It does not mean that he will not be able to be a solid center at the NHL level, but it is what it is.”

Well ok, Byfield in a nutshell..​

Ive never said not making the NHL is a bad thing. I was simply pointing out why some posters are more critical of him as thats expected as a 2nd overall pick these days and its not "racism" that some stupidly point out.

People just looking to find an issue that isn't there.

 

[nbwingsfan]

So what you're saying is, that since most 2nd overall picks make the NHL in their first season, Byfield, if not following the same path, is a disappointment?

Is it possible that Byfield may have made the NHL if the NHL, OHL, training, etc didn't take a lengthy Covid hiatus?

Do the Kings need him on their roster currently? If 2nd overall Byfield came in and out up 50points as a rookie, is this team a Stanley Cup contender?

Yes, historically 2nd overall picks jump right into the NHL and often play a big role for better or for worse. However in this situation, the Kings get a rare opportunity to play a North American kid against AHL competition to better develop his game.

He doesn't need to jump into the pressures of the NHL, nor prove that he's above the OHL competition. He gets a cool middle ground on a bad/young team where he can get used to professional hockey without the lofty expectations (a la Lafreniere), that he should come in and be some sort of immediate saviour.

I remember Barkov and Draisaitl getting very similar criticism.. and after a few years of development (different paths) they have become large bodied dominant C's for their respective teams.

I forsee a similar path for Byfield, where nay sayers such as yourself will attempt to look smarter than the room, pointing out the flaws of a young 18yr old playing in some international tournaments and a men's professional hockey team (where he now sits right there atop the points board for that squad).. only to jump to the next target in a few years, once Byfield comes out swinging, and your comments are long forgotten.

Show me anywhere in my post where I called him a disappointment or a bust? Man reading comprehension is a rare trait around here

 

[nbwingsfan]

Byfield, although a big boy, is still just a boy. He’s got a lot of physical maturing to do still.

Have I ever said otherwise?

 

[Fatass]

Have I ever said otherwise?

He should be in the AHL developing. There is no reason for him to play in the NHL. I see a lot of Draisaitl in Byfield. Draisaitl struggled in the NHL, and went back to junior to mature more. I see a similar growth pattern for Byfield.

 

[staveNsteel]

Show me anywhere in my post where I called him a disappointment or a bust? Man reading comprehension is a rare trait around here

I never used the word bust anywhere.

This:

You can also keep saying his performances were good internationally, but again for a top 2 talent no they certainly haven't been and theres been plenty of info to back that up.

Equates to disappointment.. you may have not said the word, but it's inferred here. So the mightier than thou attitude won't work.

You are always a critic, but taking criticism is often not a strong suit.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Taking time before jumping into the NHL as a top pick needs to be normalized.

The NHL is not a developmental league. Sure, players grow there, but that's when you don't feel they would benefit from minor/junior.

Byfield is benefitting in the AHL.

Granted, I'd love for him to be putting up numbers like Stutzle in the NHL now. All Kings fans would.

But we knew going in he's very far from a finished product and was furthest from being NHL ready compared to the top-3. And that's fine.

People know what they're doing. They've been doing it for thousands of posts at this point, and one in particular who has rejoined us has recycled the same post dozens of times in different words (bad international play, nothing else matters to me, didn't watch lol). It's really not worth your breath explaining.

The FACT is he's not in the NHL, the implication is that he couldn't hang, the real explanation is yours.

 

[nbwingsfan]

He should be in the AHL developing. There is no reason for him to play in the NHL. I see a lot of Draisaitl in Byfield. Draisaitl struggled in the NHL, and went back to junior to mature more. I see a similar growth pattern for Byfield.

I have never said otherwise. If you followed the thread, this all started because a poster said Byfield gets criticism because we're all secretly racists. I pointed out that it's probably much more likely people critize because 2nd overall picks are expected (right or wrong) to make the NHL rather than what he implied.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I never used the word bust anywhere.

This:

You can also keep saying his performances were good internationally, but again for a top 2 talent no they certainly haven't been and theres been plenty of info to back that up.

Equates to disappointment.. you may have not said the word, but it's inferred here. So the mightier than thou attitude won't work.

You are always a critic, but taking criticism is often not a strong suit.

By the end of the WJC yes he has absolutely not lived up to a usual.2nd overall pick. Has he been a disappointment in the AHL? No. Is it a disappointment that he didnt make the NHL? No.

Shouldn't be that hard to understand.

 

[nbwingsfan]

People know what they're doing. They've been doing it for thousands of posts at this point, and one in particular who has rejoined us has recycled the same post dozens of times in different words (bad international play, nothing else matters to me, didn't watch lol). It's really not worth your breath explaining.

The FACT is he's not in the NHL, the implication is that he couldn't hang, the real explanation is yours.

Who has said he cant hang in the NHL?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I don't disagree, just pointing out why some may be more critical and it's not due to racism.

Racism isn't something I really think about. until you brought that up it didn't even cross my mind... I dont care if he was blue he looks like he's going to be a great player. excited to see him play as much as I can...living in Toronto lol

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Taking time before jumping into the NHL as a top pick needs to be normalized.

The NHL is not a developmental league. Sure, players grow there, but that's when you don't feel they would benefit from minor/junior.

Byfield is benefitting in the AHL.

Granted, I'd love for him to be putting up numbers like Stutzle in the NHL now. All Kings fans would.

But we knew going in he's very far from a finished product and was furthest from being NHL ready compared to the top-3. And that's fine.

People have been wayyyy too hard on Byfield this year. He's doing great in the AHL I cant wait till he's NHL ready so he can prove all the naysayers wrong

 

[BigKing]

So what you're saying is, that since most 2nd overall picks make the NHL in their first season, Byfield, if not following the same path, is a disappointment?

Is it possible that Byfield may have made the NHL if the NHL, OHL, training, etc didn't take a lengthy Covid hiatus?

Do the Kings need him on their roster currently? If 2nd overall Byfield came in and out up 50points as a rookie, is this team a Stanley Cup contender?

Yes, historically 2nd overall picks jump right into the NHL and often play a big role for better or for worse. However in this situation, the Kings get a rare opportunity to play a North American kid against AHL competition to better develop his game.

He doesn't need to jump into the pressures of the NHL, nor prove that he's above the OHL competition. He gets a cool middle ground on a bad/young team where he can get used to professional hockey without the lofty expectations (a la Lafreniere), that he should come in and be some sort of immediate saviour.

I remember Barkov and Draisaitl getting very similar criticism.. and after a few years of development (different paths) they have become large bodied dominant C's for their respective teams.

I forsee a similar path for Byfield, where nay sayers such as yourself will attempt to look smarter than the room, pointing out the flaws of a young 18yr old playing in some international tournaments and a men's professional hockey team (where he now sits right there atop the points board for that squad).. only to jump to the next target in a few years, once Byfield comes out swinging, and your comments are long forgotten.

The Kings would have had him in the OHL this year after a possible cup of coffee at the start of the season.

Blake is going long term on this thing and isn't trying to microwave a playoff berth this season. It's actually awesome that Byfield can play in the AHL v. dominating in Sudbury again.

As for the NHL this year, I have no doubt in my mind that he could have played and put up similar seasons to Hughes and KK did last year while burning up a year of his ELC. Sounds cool but at least we could all say he was another 2OA that played right away. Regardless, he is most likely going to get into some NHL games this season but under the threshold for burning a year off the contract.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Racism isn't something I really think about. until you brought that up it didn't even cross my mind... I dont care if he was blue he looks like he's going to be a great player. excited to see him play as much as I can...living in Toronto lol

Must not have been following the thread. All my comments in the laat 24 hours were im response to a poster saying people only criticize him because we're racists

 

[BigKing]

Must not have been following the thread. All my comments in the laat 24 hours were im response to a poster saying people only criticize him because we're racists

I'm as far from cancel culture as it gets but I brought up a similar thing pre-draft as the criticisms of him were very similar to those of black quarterbacks. Now, I didn't get in to this "untapped potential" thing as my take was more that the "IQ" issue is something that gets thrown around a lot with black quarterbacks and a #1C is kind of similar.

That said, "we only criticize him because he is black" is an overreaction. Nobody is saying that and it is perfectly okay to criticize a player if you feel it is warranted. The idea that he gets more grief and more people want to see him fail because he is black is not a crazy idea because it is going to be a reason for some people but one can't also just toss a net over everyone that doesn't like his game and say it is because of his race. He does have holes in his game and I've criticized him now that I've been watching him regularly in the AHL and, as a Kings fan, I want him to turn into the best player in the NHL and he can be purple with pink polka dots for all I care.

 

[Mats26]

Who cares if he is not in the NHL this year. Kings brass knew he needed more time and why do we need to rush 18 year olds anyways. He was weeks away from being a 2021 draft prospect because of his birth date.

He made the jump to the Pros and Kings are lucky he was able to play in the AHL this year. He is proving he can produce even on a piss poor defensive team. If he was in the OHL this year(if they played), he would be destroying the league right now and I would still prefer he develops in the AHL rounding out his game.

He is on the right development track IMO.

 

[c3z4r]

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to watch any AHL games this year, but I'm curious if any regulars can tell me how he's doing defensively. From stat-watching, he's an abysmal -14 (yes I know +/- is not a perfect stat) , so I was wondering if it is a case of mainly putting point on the board on the PP, or if he's maybe getting matched up against the other teams' best players and not being able to keep up.

Just as a disclaimer, I had said that Byfield will be the best player in this draft and continue to believe it true, so I'm trying to start anything with my question.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

His numbers look great for an 18 year old rookie. I think a lot of people on HF have sold him short post-draft.

Hard to tell. You can't compare his AHL numbers to previous years. The AHL is nowhere near the level of competition it normally is due to the taxi-squads and it's filled with ECHL players. I haven't seen him play this year outside of WJC, so I can't really say if he's made strides in his game, but using his AHL production as an argument for him improving his stock doesn't really work for me.

 

[King'sPawn]

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to watch any AHL games this year, but I'm curious if any regulars can tell me how he's doing defensively. From stat-watching, he's an abysmal -14 (yes I know +/- is not a perfect stat) , so I was wondering if it is a case of mainly putting point on the board on the PP, or if he's maybe getting matched up against the other teams' best players and not being able to keep up.

Just as a disclaimer, I had said that Byfield will be the best player in this draft and continue to believe it true, so I'm trying to start anything with my question.

He has been passable. He's not lazy/loafing defensively, but he also has a lot to learn.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Hard to tell. You can't compare his AHL numbers to previous years. The AHL is nowhere near the level of competition it normally is due to the taxi-squads and it's filled with ECHL players. I haven't seen him play this year outside of WJC, so I can't really say if he's made strides in his game, but using his AHL production as an argument for him improving his stock doesn't really work for me.

There's also the "one of the best 18 year old forward season in AHL history" line considering I don't think any top 5 picks as forwards have even ever played in the AHL at 18 except Filatov and Puljujarvi so there isnt a huge sample size to choose from.

Might be factual (kind of) but a bit misleading.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There's also the "one of the best 18 year old forward season in AHL history" line considering I don't think any top 5 picks as forwards have even ever played in the AHL at 18 except Filatov and Puljujarvi so there isnt a huge sample size to choose from.

Might be factual (kind of) but a bit misleading.

It’s a small sample size but it’s really kind of the only retort to the “his production sucks” line, is it not?

I mean you can really only compare him to other 18 year olds that were high picks no matter what the year or situation and he’s leading the team in scoring too