C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV

[OKR]

The post I replied to was talking about just stats, so I made a counterargument with just stats. My issue was mostly with the cherry picked stats to make Byfield look good stat-wise. Note that I did not even try to give a scouting opinion on Byfield.

What did you offer that was worth discussion, anyway? I must have missed it.

”I'd say that this season alone, Jarvis, Wisdom, Drysdale are having better seasons in AHL at his age. Byfield's season has been a disappointment and quite a significant one at that, at least in my opinion.”

You have a opinion on a 3 players seasons you haven’t even seen play, and you do this constantly on multiple prospects threads, it gets tiring.

 

[funky]

So is he using a longer stick this year?

 

[NYIschremp44]

Well that's a rosy way to put it. I'd say that this season alone, Jarvis, Wisdom, Drysdale are having better seasons in AHL at his age. Byfield's season has been a disappointment and quite a significant one at that, at least in my opinion.

anyone know how to block a poster?

 

[redcard]

Its wonderful how many people think they're doing the world a favor by sharing their opinion on a prospect they're not watching while completely disregarding the posts of those who are.

 

[kilowatt]

Its wonderful how many people think they're doing the world a favor by sharing their opinion on a prospect they're not watching while completely disregarding the posts of those who are.

The haters will say it's fake:

 

[KingPuckChoo]

The haters will say it's fake:

oufff, classy burn

 

[King'sPawn]

anyone know how to block a poster?

Select the poster's name on one of their posts. A window will pop up and there will be the option to "ignore"

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I hate to suggest this because I think it's so overused in society, but the more takes I read about Byfield that make absolutely no sense and seem to want to endlessly find controversy for the sake of it, the more I feel like his race plays a part. I dismissed this about a year ago because I don't think that should be anyone's initial suspicion, but why else would this guy get so much hate for what is a pretty normal career?

I don't know if it's subconscious, so I'm not going to call anyone in particular racist, but I'm starting to buy into his race being some factor here that plays a part in the endless criticism. He constantly needs to play to a higher standard, and he gets this tag of unlimited potential because of it. He's not the first black player who gets this very transparent tag of unlimited potential. I really don't like calling people a racist, but when I hear people say unlimited potential or untapped potential because a player is black, thats about as close as I think there is to racist commentary in hockey.

Could it be that Byfield is not going to be the Lebron James of hockey? Maybe he doesn't have the talent for that. My theory might be completely unfounded, but I'm not someone whose first instinct is to accuse others of racism. I would suggest I dislike doing so much more than most, but I can't help but believe his race is used against him in these discussions. I probably started a controversial discussion, but I think its better to discuss if this is a factor than the endless lazy comments about him underachieving.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I probably started a controversial discussion

If by controversial you meant dumb, yeah I think you did.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

6’4 kid oozing with skill and elite athleticism. Im not Byfields biggest fan but not crazy to see why people say he has unlimited potential.

What a dumb post, way to make it about something it’s not.

 

[Dominance]

6’4 kid oozing with skill and elite athleticism. Im not Byfields biggest fan but not crazy to see why people say he has unlimited potential.

What a dumb post, way to make it about something it’s not.

Everyone admits the size and athleticism, but then seem to have a lot of completely unsubstantiated comments about his IQ, as it happens.

I think PB has a point.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Everyone admits the size and athleticism, but then seem to have a lot of completely unsubstantiated comments about his IQ, as it happens.

Imo his point was that some people say Byfield has a high ceiling primarily because of his skin color, which I think is a disservice to his elite level tools.

 

[ItWasJustified]

I hate to suggest this because I think it's so overused in society, but the more takes I read about Byfield that make absolutely no sense and seem to want to endlessly find controversy for the sake of it, the more I feel like his race plays a part. I dismissed this about a year ago because I don't think that should be anyone's initial suspicion, but why else would this guy get so much hate for what is a pretty normal career?

I don't know if it's subconscious, so I'm not going to call anyone in particular racist, but I'm starting to buy into his race being some factor here that plays a part in the endless criticism. He constantly needs to play to a higher standard, and he gets this tag of unlimited potential because of it. He's not the first black player who gets this very transparent tag of unlimited potential. I really don't like calling people a racist, but when I hear people say unlimited potential or untapped potential because a player is black, thats about as close as I think there is to racist commentary in hockey.

Could it be that Byfield is not going to be the Lebron James of hockey? Maybe he doesn't have the talent for that. My theory might be completely unfounded, but I'm not someone whose first instinct is to accuse others of racism. I would suggest I dislike doing so much more than most, but I can't help but believe his race is used against him in these discussions. I probably started a controversial discussion, but I think its better to discuss if this is a factor than the endless lazy comments about him underachieving.

Sometimes it's better to not write a comment at all. Your comment is such a case.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Imo his point was that some people say Byfield has a high ceiling primarily because of his skin color, which I think is a disservice to his elite level tools.

I don't see the correlation. I think it's because he's a top 2 pick and not in the NHL.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Imo his point was that some people say Byfield has a high ceiling primarily because of his skin color, which I think is a disservice to his elite level tools.

Then you read my post wrong.

I never used the word high ceiling. Thats your word. I believe he does have a high ceiling. I don't think you are picked 2nd without a high ceiling. Everyone agrees about that. There would be no point for me to mention that he has a high ceiling.

It always seems like people use phrases like untapped potential or unlimited potential for black players. Why? No one would suggest Sanderson or Guhle have unlimited potential. They have weaknesses that keep them from that. But for Byfield, it's expected that if he puts in the effort and doesn't underachieve that he'll be one of the few best players in the NHL. I just find it such lazy commentary. He's a very good prospect, but maybe some of the criticisms we see every day about Byfield overlook that they are holding him to a ridiculous standard. I think they hold him to this standard because they expect too much of him due to what is subconsciously stereotyping because of race.

If you want another example, people said the exact same things about K'Andre Miller. He can be as good as he wants, unlimited potential. The same types of phrases. I thought it was ridiculous. Now, he's ended up better than I thought. Thats because he's naturally improved his game, like first rounders often do, and I probably was also wrong in assessing his game. But even watching him now every game, he absolutely does not have unlimited potential. He's a good player, but there are clear weaknesses in his game. I'm sure the same things are said about POJ from your team.

I think there's a laziness that you see with people assessing the skillsets of most black players. They are athletic, so then its thought they have so much untapped potential, sometimes its said unlimited potential or they can be as good as they want. Then when they obviously don't play up to the ridiculous standard expected, they under-achieved or they didn't work hard enough or people try to point to something the player did wrong when really they were incorrectly and subconsciously stereotyped due to race in suggesting that they should play up to a standard that their actual skillset doesn't indicate they should play to.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

If you want another example, people said the exact same things about K'Andre Miller. He can be as good as he wants, unlimited potential. The same types of phrases.

Here's every mention of the word "potential" in the K'Andre Miller thread:
*please note that 2 of the 3 "high praises" posts are from the same poster
**please note that almost half of these (every completely out of left field posts) are from you


Maybe not a top 10-15 talent currently, but definitely a potential 1st rounder. Good player.

Wasn’t a doubt in my mind they would come, he shows lots of offensive potential and I’m glad it’s starting to show.

Miller could get the super slow burn he needs to have all the time in the world to hone his immense raw potential.

He's a great skater and theoretically, he has offensive and defensive potential, but he's not a good hockey player right now, in my opinion.

He has some offensive ability, but I don't see big potential at forward.

He has a lot of potential, but unless he can fix some of his technical flaws he's going to be a liability on defense at the higher levels.

I think Miller is exactly the type of player that seems like he has a lot of potential, but actually doesn't.

Potential is there. (answering to someone saying he was a future 1D)

I see him as a Werenski type if he doesn't develop his reads in the defensive end, but his potential could be a Seth Jones type.

A lot of us here have been saying he has 1D potential even if it's hard to see him getting there.

I will repeat it again, you draft this kid based on upside, his skills are raw but the potential is huge... (Goldenhands)

I think you might be confusing your fandom and your opinion of his potential with production.

Being typed as having "a lot of tools" or "potential" doesn't automatically mean you have high-level attributes in your game that will be such in the NHL.

Personally, I was projecting Miller as a future 2nd pairing beast, a kid that can do a bit of everything on the ice, including crushing some guys pretty hard, but didnt exclude the possibility of him to become a top pairing guy since I thought there was alot of growing potential with this kid... (Goldenhands)

As for my opinion of Miller, in admittedly limited viewings, is that he has the potential to be a top pairing defender.

At that standpoint, potential matters more than production.

He still has a lot of potential obviously

Some of them don’t have the hockey skill potential that is needed to be a good NHL’er. I think he’ll play in the NHL, but I think it’ll be on a bottom pairing or as a low-level #4.

K'Andre may bust or he may be a star or he may be mediocre but he has more potential as a defender than Byfuglien ever did.

He's played 2 games and the guy is questioning whether he'll ever live up to his potential.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I don't see the correlation. I think it's because he's a top 2 pick and not in the NHL.

what about before the draft?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Here's every mention of the word "potential" in the K'Andre Miller thread:
*please note that 2 of the 3 "high praises" posts are from the same poster
**please note that almost half of these (every completely out of left field posts) are from you


Maybe not a top 10-15 talent currently, but definitely a potential 1st rounder. Good player.

Wasn’t a doubt in my mind they would come, he shows lots of offensive potential and I’m glad it’s starting to show.

Miller could get the super slow burn he needs to have all the time in the world to hone his immense raw potential.

He's a great skater and theoretically, he has offensive and defensive potential, but he's not a good hockey player right now, in my opinion.

He has some offensive ability, but I don't see big potential at forward.

He has a lot of potential, but unless he can fix some of his technical flaws he's going to be a liability on defense at the higher levels.

I think Miller is exactly the type of player that seems like he has a lot of potential, but actually doesn't.

Potential is there. (answering to someone saying he was a future 1D)

I see him as a Werenski type if he doesn't develop his reads in the defensive end, but his potential could be a Seth Jones type.

A lot of us here have been saying he has 1D potential even if it's hard to see him getting there.

I will repeat it again, you draft this kid based on upside, his skills are raw but the potential is huge... (Goldenhands)

I think you might be confusing your fandom and your opinion of his potential with production.

Being typed as having "a lot of tools" or "potential" doesn't automatically mean you have high-level attributes in your game that will be such in the NHL.

Personally, I was projecting Miller as a future 2nd pairing beast, a kid that can do a bit of everything on the ice, including crushing some guys pretty hard, but didnt exclude the possibility of him to become a top pairing guy since I thought there was alot of growing potential with this kid... (Goldenhands)

As for my opinion of Miller, in admittedly limited viewings, is that he has the potential to be a top pairing defender.

At that standpoint, potential matters more than production.

He still has a lot of potential obviously

Some of them don’t have the hockey skill potential that is needed to be a good NHL’er. I think he’ll play in the NHL, but I think it’ll be on a bottom pairing or as a low-level #4.

K'Andre may bust or he may be a star or he may be mediocre but he has more potential as a defender than Byfuglien ever did.

He's played 2 games and the guy is questioning whether he'll ever live up to his potential.

I didn't understand the first time that you took offense to what I said. Saying it twice is really going to make me understand that you didn't like what I had to say.

 

[Boonk]

Gotta bookmark all these PB posts for future reference guys

 

[SFKingshomer]

what about before the draft?

Probably not. Byfield is big and lumbering and those guys don't pass the eye test the way a smaller skill guy like Stutzle does.

 

[redcard]

Goals in 5 straight now from Mr. Unimpressive Scoring Pace

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

uses skill to settle a bouncing puck while holding off a checker, uses strength/power to beat 3 off the boards into the slot for a goal. Not bad.

And I had the same reaction as home as he did, got me all pumped up

 

[NikF]

Scored again. He has goals in 5 straight games now.

 

[smokes lets go]

Its wonderful how many people think they're doing the world a favor by sharing their opinion on a prospect they're not watching while completely disregarding the posts of those who are.

Just like all the people sharong their opnions on covid and vaccines without any scientifc credentials nowadays