C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV

[kilowatt]

I would say a 56 point pace is great for an 18 year old in the NHL. I think 65+ point pace starts being "fantastic".

I think a 45 point NHL pace for an 18 year old top pick is probably the bar. Fall below that and you've probably had a fairly disappointing rookie year.

I think Byfield's AHL production is just fine, but far from great. I would have personally been hoping for more after they way he produced last year.

His OHL production would have put his NHLe at a 48 point pace. But his AHL production drops his NHLe to a 27 point pace. That's definitely disappointing. If he were to keep pace with his NHLe from junior, he'd need 23 points in 19 AHL games instead of 13.

I haven't made any comments about his play as I haven't watched him. I'm talking purely about production.

You should watch him. He's already good, he keeps getting better, and he's going to be a very good player in the NHL. He's done everything that's been asked of him in Ontario. He's second on the team in scoring at 18 years old and he's playing in all situations. NHLe is a useless stat, to be honest.

 

[King'sPawn]

Watching players develop isn't everyone's cup of tea. Which is fine.

But I think we need to relax expectations that 18 year-old top picks HAVE to play well in the NHL out the gate. They aren't all Crosby, McDavid, etc. Not even Malkin played in the NHL right away. He was playing against men for 2 additional years. This is Byfield's first year against pros.

Not comparing Byfield to Malkin - just stating the threshold of "lol bad pick" should wait more than 5/6 months.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I haven't made any comments about his play as I haven't watched him. I'm talking purely about production.

Actually, you're talking purely about hypothetical equivalent production, not even real production.

 

[unicornpig]

I think his numbers are great for an 18 year old non top pick rookie.

Considering his draft position, I'd say his production is "okay". Not terrible, not great.

A 56 point pace is great for an 18 year old top pick in the NHL. That sort of pace in the AHL is kind of meh.

hughes and hischier must be huge busts then LOL

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

hughes and hischier must be huge busts then LOL

I didn't say it meant you were a bust. But yes, Hughes had a disappointing rookie season.

Actually, you're talking purely about hypothetical equivalent production, not even real production.

No I was talking about how his actual stats are not "great" as others have pointed out. Maybe try reading my prior posts to see what I was taking issue with.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No I was talking about how his actual stats are not "great" as others have pointed out. Maybe try reading my prior posts to see what I was taking issue with.

Well, if we try reading your prior posts, we find you take issue with everything from his IQ to skating, and now you're taking a hard line on NHLe being a determiner even though you admit you haven't watched him, so color me skeptical that you're here to do anything productive but drop preconceived notions and 'well actually's from the stat sheet.

Unfortunate because I like reading your posts otherwise, but you'll have to forgive us for getting sick and absolutely f***ing tired of "I haven't watched Byfield, but..."

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well, if we try reading your prior posts, we find you take issue with everything from his IQ to skating, and now you're taking a hard line on NHLe being a determiner even though you admit you haven't watched him, so color me skeptical that you're here to do anything productive but drop preconceived notions and 'well actually's from the stat sheet.

Unfortunate because I like reading your posts otherwise, but you'll have to forgive us for getting sick and absolutely f***ing tired of "I haven't watched Byfield, but..."

I haven't watched him in the AHL. But I have watched him plenty of other times.

I think there's plenty to be excited about with him, my only point was to dispute the notion that 13p in 19 games was "great". It's not bad, but I wouldn't call it great either.

That said, it's certainly very promising the way he's started to produce after a relatively slow start.

 

[kilowatt]

I haven't watched him in the AHL. But I have watched him plenty of other times.

I think there's plenty to be excited about with him, my only point was to dispute the notion that 13p in 19 games was "great". It's not bad, but I wouldn't call it great either.

That said, it's certainly very promising the way he's started to produce after a relatively slow start.

He's fourth in rookie scoring in the AHL, so that seems pretty good. Hell, he's tied for 23rd in scoring overall in the AHL. From a real stats perspective, that's an excellent season. What's even more important is that he (and the rest of the team) is getting better as the season goes on.

What, to you, would be a great season for an 18 year old rookie in the AHL?

 

[covfefe]

I haven't watched him in the AHL. But I have watched him plenty of other times.

I think there's plenty to be excited about with him, my only point was to dispute the notion that 13p in 19 games was "great". It's not bad, but I wouldn't call it great either.

That said, it's certainly very promising the way he's started to produce after a relatively slow start.

After ~16 years here, one would assume you'd have already arrived at the conclusion that doing so is a losing proposition

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He's fourth in rookie scoring in the AHL, so that seems pretty good. Hell, he's tied for 23rd in scoring overall in the AHL. From a real stats perspective, that's an excellent season. What's even more important is that he (and the rest of the team) is getting better as the season goes on.

What, to you, would be a great season for an 18 year old rookie in the AHL?

Point per game.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Point per game.

So there have literally been only two 'great' AHL seasons for 18 year olds ever, and one was partial/incomplete--Robert Dome and 25 games of David Pastrnak.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So there have literally been only two 'great' AHL seasons for 18 year olds ever, and one was partial/incomplete--Robert Dome and 25 games of David Pastrnak.

Yeah well we don't see many 18 year old seasons in the AHL, for many reasons.

How many of the best 18 year old players in the world have played in the AHL?

 

[kilowatt]

Point per game.

So there have literally been only two 'great' AHL seasons for 18 year olds ever, and one was partial/incomplete--Robert Dome and 25 games of David Pastrnak.

Our definitions of "great" might be different then.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Our definitions of "great" might be different then.

See my above post

 

[Frolov 6'3]

So there have literally been only two 'great' AHL seasons for 18 year olds ever, and one was partial/incomplete--Robert Dome and 25 games of David Pastrnak.

Yes.


I will be the voice of reason. The ‘problem’ isnt so much him being great or poor.

“Great” is indeed a word that is used a little too often but c’mon, why be so negative again (production is “kinda meh”) about this small little tidbit. Especially if a particular poster has not been very positive about him all along, which is no problem, but now it looks like to be an agenda.

I think thats the point Jesus and some make.

Yes not many 18 year olds have played in the AHL so there is that, little to compare.

I do miss the “Can’t believe LA drafted Byfield over Stützle” comments at this point.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah well we don't see many 18 year old seasons in the AHL, for many reasons.

How many of the best 18 year old players in the world have played in the AHL?

So then doesn't your point then kind of implode upon itself?

He's already amongst the best 18 yo seasons of all time, and trending up--can't really hold against him all those who haven't played.

He's above PPG for the last little stretch, let's see how it shakes out. I suspect he'll end closer to PPG than you'll be comfortable with.

Yes.


I will be the voice of reason. The ‘problem’ isnt so much him being great or poor.

“Great” is indeed a word that is used a little too often but c’mon, why be so negative again (production is “kinda meh”) about this small little tidbit. Especially if a particular poster has not been very positive about him all along, which is no problem, but now it looks like to be an agenda.

I think thats the point Jesus and some make.

That's pretty much it, I appreciate the poster, but the point is overly narrow and pedantic for the sake of being so.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So then doesn't your point then kind of implode upon itself?

He's already amongst the best 18 yo seasons of all time, and trending up--can't really hold against him all those who haven't played.

He's above PPG for the last little stretch, let's see how it shakes out. I suspect he'll end closer to PPG than you'll be comfortable with.

My point was, for a top pick, his production really hasn't been that noteworthy. You're right that we don't have a lot of historical comparisons, but I still would have expected more.

I'm sure he's going to continue to improve. He's more of a project than other #2 overalls so he has that going for him as well.

 

[Mats26]

We can debate stats all we want but the fact is he made the transition from Juniors to the Pros and it didn't take him a full season to get acclimated. In fact, most of the Kings prospects are doing well. Having a group of young prospects all driving towards the same goal to make it to the NHL is giving them all motivation to make it and pull for one another.

 

[voxel]

If Byfield was some one-dimensional winger... I'd argue his points were a bit low for the AHL but he's a 18 year old center who plays on the Reign top PK unit (from what I've seen). How often does that happen?

 

[Reddawg]

If Byfield was some one-dimensional winger... I'd argue his points were a bit low for the AHL but he's a 18 year old center who plays on the Reign top PK unit (from what I've seen). How often does that happen?

Approximately never. Aside from this year, the only 18yo’s who play in the AHL are generally European players who were loaned to CHL teams and aren’t subject to the AHL transfer rule that says you have to be 20 to play in the league.

Thusfar, Byfield has secured the 20th best points total of any 18yo to ever play in the league, and he’s done it in 19 games. Pastrnak put up 28 points in 25 games, everyone else on the list above him had more than 33 games to do what they did.
18-Year Old AHL Players - Regular Season Stats

 

[ijuka]

Approximately never. Aside from this year, the only 18yo’s who play in the AHL are generally European players who were loaned to CHL teams and aren’t subject to the AHL transfer rule that says you have to be 20 to play in the league.

Thusfar, Byfield has secured the 20th best points total of any 18yo to ever play in the league, and he’s done it in 19 games. Pastrnak put up 28 points in 25 games, everyone else on the list above him had more than 33 games to do what they did.
18-Year Old AHL Players - Regular Season Stats

Well that's a rosy way to put it. I'd say that this season alone, Jarvis, Wisdom, Drysdale are having better seasons in AHL at his age. Byfield's season has been a disappointment and quite a significant one at that, at least in my opinion.

 

[OKR]

Well that's a rosy way to put it. I'd say that this season alone, Jarvis, Wisdom, Drysdale are having better seasons in AHL at his age. Byfield's season has been a disappointment and quite a significant one at that, at least in my opinion.

We all know you haven’t watched any of them play in the AHL tho, you just checked who has the higher PPG and posted them.

 

[ijuka]

We all know you haven’t watched any of them play in the AHL tho, you just checked who has the higher PPG and posted them.

Did you read the post I replied to?

And that's not the only thing I checked, I also checked plus / minus. Poor stat yes, but having the worst on the team by a mile probably is not a positive.

 

[OKR]

Did you read the post I replied to?

And that's not the only thing I checked, I also checked plus / minus. Poor stat yes, but having the worst on the team by a mile probably is not a positive.

I did, don’t see how that is relevant to anything i said tho. You post on most prospect threads, yet you never offer anything worth of discussing since you haven’t even seen the players play and form your opinions purely on boxscore stats.

 

[ijuka]

I did, don’t see how that is relevant to anything i said tho. You post on most prospect threads, yet you never offer anything worth of discussing since you haven’t even seen the players play and form your opinions purely on boxscore stats.

The post I replied to was talking about just stats, so I made a counterargument with just stats. My issue was mostly with the cherry picked stats to make Byfield look good stat-wise. Note that I did not even try to give a scouting opinion on Byfield.

What did you offer that was worth discussion, anyway? I must have missed it.

Oh, right. I indeed haven't watched Byfield this season, though I did last season. And I don't form my opinions based on just box scores, the reason I liked Stützle has nothing to do with his scoring for example, I just needed to watch 1 game.

But again, I did not even try to give a scouting opinion. Let me hear yours though, since you clearly are such a valuable contributor to this thread, unlike myself.