C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV

[Raccoon Jesus]

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to watch any AHL games this year, but I'm curious if any regulars can tell me how he's doing defensively. From stat-watching, he's an abysmal -14 (yes I know +/- is not a perfect stat) , so I was wondering if it is a case of mainly putting point on the board on the PP, or if he's maybe getting matched up against the other teams' best players and not being able to keep up.

Just as a disclaimer, I had said that Byfield will be the best player in this draft and continue to believe it true, so I'm trying to start anything with my question.

It’s one part back luck, one part learning-on-the-go, one part shit team with a bunch of pro rookies and him playing a top-six role. He’s earned it to some degree, but he’s competitive, and that number makes him look clueless while Gaunce looks like a savant while the exact opposite would be true. Learning curve from dominant offensive junior C to two-way pro C is pretty stiff.

 

[nbwingsfan]

It’s a small sample size but it’s really kind of the only retort to the “his production sucks” line, is it not?

I mean you can really only compare him to other 18 year olds that were high picks no matter what the year or situation and he’s leading the team in scoring too

I don't think anyone is saying his production sucks right now.

 

[MNRube]

Definitely would not want to rush Byfield. Kid can surely play in the NHL now but someone that big you want to take along slowly and let him build up his confidence at each level. He is going to be a monster in 2-4 years. But i expect some growing pains between now and then .

 

[redcard]

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to watch any AHL games this year, but I'm curious if any regulars can tell me how he's doing defensively. From stat-watching, he's an abysmal -14 (yes I know +/- is not a perfect stat) , so I was wondering if it is a case of mainly putting point on the board on the PP, or if he's maybe getting matched up against the other teams' best players and not being able to keep up.

Just as a disclaimer, I had said that Byfield will be the best player in this draft and continue to believe it true, so I'm trying to start anything with my question.

He loses his guy from time to time. Ontario's full of rookies trying to learn the system and they don't have the talent on the blue line that they do up front. Combine that with the sloppy nature of the AHL and you get a lot of break downs. Byfield needs to do a better job of figuring out who he should be covering when these things happen as too often this year his guy has gotten free and put it in the net. The goaltending is also not doing anybody any favors.

Not too worried about it, when he's defending on the puck he uses his size and stick well, breaks up plays well, etc. Its just learning to be a little more attentive off the puck which isn't out of the ordinary for an 18 year old. The nice thing about the goals and points piling up is that it allows him to focus on improving defensively and the AHL is a great place for him to do that.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

There's also the "one of the best 18 year old forward season in AHL history" line considering I don't think any top 5 picks as forwards have even ever played in the AHL at 18 except Filatov and Puljujarvi so there isnt a huge sample size to choose from.

Might be factual (kind of) but a bit misleading.

Like I said, this isn’t the same AHL, though. It’s not even the best 18yo season this year. See Jarvis

 

[nbwingsfan]

Like I said, this isn’t the same AHL, though. It’s not even the best 18yo season this year. See Jarvis

Yes I know, I'm agreeing with you.

 

[King'sPawn]

Like I said, this isn’t the same AHL, though. It’s not even the best 18yo season this year. See Jarvis

6 players on one team with over a point/game, third in scoring

Vs.

1 player on the team over a point/game (Lias Andersson), shares team lead in scoring.

Jarvis is having a great season in the AHL. But they are in completely different environments, despite being in the same league.

 

[redcard]

Like I said, this isn’t the same AHL, though. It’s not even the best 18yo season this year. See Jarvis

Jarvis turned 19 before the season started.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Technically Jarvis played in the AHL as a 19yr old if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Mats26]

AHL is the 2nd best league in the world. Taxis squad or not.

Maybe the fact that some prospects are doing well in the AHL is simply because they have the talent.

 

[OiledUp]

Yes hockey IQ matters a lot at higher levels, it can make or break a career. But I'd say there are not a lot of people around, even among paid scouts, who are good at evaluating hockey IQ in prospects. And I'm certainly not claiming I'm one of those people.

Hockey IQ is imo one of the toughest skills to rate when watching guys at lower levels and before they've reached a certain point in their development. Someone can look really smart on the ice, make quick decisions and he's just well coached in a good enviroment. Or another kid looks dumb as bricks when his coordination hasn't quite caught up to his last growth spurt making him struggle to react and make plays quickly enough despite his head actually keeping up.

I sometimes feel like the low hockey IQ stuff gets thrown out there to explain why a player isn't really looking as good as the person watching thinks he should be. Thus it often gets stapled to big guys who have good skating and hands yet aren't as dominant on the ice night in night out as everyone assume they should be with that type of toolkit. Imo Byfield is almost the archetype.

And the high hockey IQ label is almost automatically given to smaller guys with strong playmaking skills but just ok skating.

And once a player has that label it's near impossible to shake because it's pretty difficult to disprove until you see them fully developed on the big stage.

I'm sure there are plenty of guys around these boards and the scouting community who are fully qualified to evaluate hockey IQ in prospects so I'm not calling anyone out. But I do think it's a rabbit hole we tend to get lost in when discussing prospects. And it ends up being something we use to discredit or defend a player no matter how that player performs.

"He's been dominant this last stretch...but once he gets to a higher level his low IQ will hold him back"

"He's struggling with the transition to pro hockey...but with his elite hockey IQ he'll adapt eventually."

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Jarvis turned 19 before the season started.

Sorry, change it to d+1 if you like

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Sorry, change it to d+1 if you like

You try too hard to knock Byfield

 

[Osprey]

Jarvis also played only 9 games in the AHL before the WHL started up and he went back. He did have an impressive 11 points, but 9 games is still a bit small of a sample size to project and call his "AHL season," IMO.

Also, a number of people have said that the AHL is filled with ECHLers this year. Is this a fact or just assumption? I can see how one might assume that, since each team is short 4-6 players because of NHL taxi squads, but those 4-6 players have been and are being filled by OHL and WHL players, like Byfield and Jarvis. Why would GMs fill the open spots with ECHLers who likely have no NHL potential when they have much more valuable and skilled junior prospects that desperately need somewhere to play to continue their development?

The Kings filled out the Reign roster with junior players, not ECHLers. Granted, they have a nice pipeline, but every team has OHL and WHL prospects that they'd rather have play in the AHL than not play at all. We might say that the league is a bit watered down this season by those junior players, but I'm not sure that we can say that it's watered down by ECHLers unless we can confirm that there are a lot more in the league than usual.

 

[apadilla]

It's not an opinion its a fact that almost every single 2nd overall pick forward makes the NHL in their D+1. I believe since 2000 the only ones not to play in the NHL (unless it was their own choice) are Bobby Ryan and Jason Spezza.

You can also keep saying his performances were good internationally, but again for a top 2 talent no they certainly haven't been and theres been plenty of info to back that up.

It certainly isnt racism like a couple posters like to keep saying

When people say Byfield's hockey IQ is low or lacking or needs to be better, it is racism, and I hate racists. They are bad, mkay.

 

[nbwingsfan]

AHL is the 2nd best league in the world. Taxis squad or not.

Maybe the fact that some prospects are doing well in the AHL is simply because they have the talent.

I'd say some european leagues may be better this year with some very good players moving there before the AHL started. Pretty close though and pretty much impossible to judge

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Like I said, this isn’t the same AHL, though. It’s not even the best 18yo season this year. See Jarvis

This is just more fodder for the "byfield will never make everyone happy" thing, honestly.

No one is saying he doesn’t have room for growth. We’re just openly mocking the rapidly moving goalposts for the folks that wouldn’t be happy no matter what league he’s producing in. There are very reasonable doubts/complaints at this point but they’re often not coming from informed perspectives and many from people who admit not even watching him.

IE if he were blowing up junior, big deal (see: Alexis Lafreniere’s last year)
Now he’s heating up in the AHL, and ‘it’s a watered down league’
“I want to see him score against men” and now that he is ‘oh no not like that’
“He should be in the NHL” the implication being he CANT make it rather than his development is likely better served elsewhere.

Etc.

 

[redcard]

2000: Dany Heatley - Played college hockey for D+1
2001: Jason Spezza - Not eligible to play in the AHL - Sent to Junior
2002: Kari Lehtonen - (Goalie) - stayed in Finland for D+1
2003: Eric Staal - Not eligible to play in the AHL - 31 points in 81 NHL games
2004: Evgeni Malkin - Stayed in Russia for D+1 ( contract issue)
2005: Bobby Ryan - Not eligible to play in the AHL - Sent to Junior
2006: Jordan Staal - Not eligible to play in the AHL - 42 points in 82 NHL games
2007: James Van Riemsdyk - Played college hockey for D+1
2008: Drew Doughty - Not eligible to play in the AHL - 27 points in 81 NHL games (Dman)
2009: Victor Hedman - (Dman) 20 points in 74 NHL games
2010: Tyler Seguin - Not eligible to play in the AHL - 22 points in 74 NHL games
2011: Gabriel Landeskog - Not eligible to play in the AHL - 52 points in 82 NHL games
2012: Ryan Murray - Not eligible to play in the AHL - Sent to Junior (Dman)
2013: Aleksander Barkov - 24 points in 54 NHL games
2014: Sam Reinhart - Not eligible to play in the AHL - Sent to Junior
2015: Jack Eichel - 56 points in 81 NHL Games
2016: Patrik Laine - 64 points in 73 NHL Games
2017: Nolan Patrick - Not eligible to play in the AHL - 30 points in 73 NHL games
2018: Andrei Svehnikov - Not eligible to play in the AHL - 37 points in 82 NHL games
2019: Kaapo Kakko - 23 points in 66 NHL games

11 of the last 20 #2 overall picks weren't allowed to play in the AHL in their D+1 season. It was CHL or NHL. 4 were sent back, 7 stayed up but only 2 of the 7 managed better than 0.5 ppg.

Of the 9 that were eligible for the AHL, 7 were forwards.

Of the 7, 2 played college hockey and 1 stayed in Russia.

Meaning there were only 4 forwards drafted #2 overall in the last 20 years that could have played in the AHL, but stayed in the NHL instead. 2 of them failed to crack 25 points.

Using "no other #2 overall pick played in the AHL their D+1 season" as a knock against Byfield is just silly.

 

[Mats26]

I'd say some european leagues may be better this year with some very good players moving there before the AHL started. Pretty close though and pretty much impossible to judge

I would just like to know which drafted junior players went over there in Europe instead of the AHL this year, making the Euro leagues better. Most european players just stayed in their leagues.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I would just like to know which drafted junior players went over there in Europe instead of the AHL this year, making the Euro leagues better. Most european players just stayed in their leagues.

Thats not what I said, I said the European leagues may be better this season because very good AHL players or borderline NHL players went over or stayed in Europe before the AHL started.

 

[voxel]

Jarvis also played only 9 games in the AHL before the WHL started up and he went back. He did have an impressive 11 points, but 9 games is still a bit small of a sample size to project and call his "AHL season," IMO.

Also, a number of people have said that the AHL is filled with ECHLers this year. Is this a fact or just assumption? I can see how one might assume that, since each team is short 4-6 players because of NHL taxi squads, but those 4-6 players have been and are being filled by OHL and WHL players, like Byfield and Jarvis. Why would GMs fill the open spots with ECHLers who likely have no NHL potential when they have much more valuable and skilled junior prospects that desperately need somewhere to play to continue their development?

The Kings filled out the Reign roster with junior players, not ECHLers. Granted, they have a nice pipeline, but every team has OHL and WHL prospects that they'd rather have play in the AHL than not play at all. We might say that the league is a bit watered down this season by those junior players, but I'm not sure that we can say that it's watered down by ECHLers unless we can confirm that there are a lot more in the league than usual.

It's weirdly both. AHL has more ECHLer than last season (i.e Condors only have 1 D-man signed to an NHL contract and 4-6 forwards on the roster would be in the ECHL) but also allow 1st round picks that normally wouldn't be in the league (see Drysdale, Jarvis, etc) AND there's stacked multi-org teams like the Chicago Wolves that did not exist before. AHL Goaltending has been especially bad this season. 3rd string NHL goalies would be AHL starters.

Regardless, Byfield is fine. Actually more than fine. I never watched Byfield nor Turcotte nor Zegras nor Drysdale nor Jarvis nor Krebs before this AHL season so came in with zero bias. I just didn't like one horrible period by Turcotte Byfield's been solid every period I've seen him. Just one bad blown coverage on a goal against but multiple point blank chances against the Condors. I can't criticize his skating, vision, shot, or decision making. He keeps his current pace for 10-15 games I'd call him up to the Kings.

 

[voxel]

Thats not what I said, I said the European leagues may be better this season because very good AHL players or borderline NHL players went over or stayed in Europe before the AHL started.

Numerous players who played in Europe returned to the AHL this season. The top 2 AHL scorers in Benson and Marody played overseas. Benson even played with Pius Suter for the Lions. The only ones who stayed had to commit to full SHL/KHL years but IMO it was lower-end prospects that didn't have a chance to make the NHL or players too low on the depth chart due to contracts/age.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

AHL is the 2nd best league in the world. Taxis squad or not.

Maybe the fact that some prospects are doing well in the AHL is simply because they have the talent.

Yeah...no.

 

[Mats26]

Yeah...no.

AHL is a prep for the NHL. NHL farm teams. To me that is 2nd best Pro league to make it to the NHL. No NHL team wants to send their prospects back to europe for development unless they absolutley have too. Like Seider and the euros in this Covid year.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

AHL is a prep for the NHL. NHL farm teams. To me that is 2nd best Pro league to make it to the NHL. No NHL team wants to send their prospects back to europe for development unless they absolutley have too. Like Seider and the euros in this Covid year.

Id have to agree with you. especially for European players dont they always say have to get used to the North American game? There for the AHL would be the highest level of hockey thats closest to the NHL rink size right? So wouldnt that obviously make the AHL the 2nd best league in the world? I mean u see some players go into the KHL and kill it that didnt mount to much like for example Markus Granlund. guys a ppg in the KHL.