Around the league part 2

[kingsfan28]

And the least successful coach in NHL history will be out of a job.

Thanks for the tank Dallas and getting us the best odds, now get out!

 

[kilowatt]

Quinton Byfield is the Ben Simmons of the NHL and I won’t stop saying it.

ah f***

 

[kingsfan28]

Some world class Duck trolling. Always on point.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Definitely was a gamble from the get go, so....

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Byfield over Stutzle is gonna wind up making Forbort over Tarasenko look like the shrewdest pick in hockey history.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Byfield over Stutzle is gonna wind up making Forbort over Tarasenko look like the shrewdest pick in hockey history.

I'm as a big a defender of both Byfield and Turcotte as you'll find because I believe there's still plenty of time for both but those two being picked back to back with what's going on around them is absolutely disastrous looking right now, especially with the Kings' apparent "now is the time" edict.

 

[Schrute farms]

They weren't bad picks. At the time, they were likely the most obvious and consensus picks at those spot. But when drafting 18 year olds, it's a gambling projection game and some (maybe a lot) of luck game. So far, both have turn out bad. One because he can't get on the ice; and the other because of who was the other pick deciding between and what that guy has turned into early on.

Very easy in hindsight. But it's unfair to do so and blame. It's bad luck....and likely some bad scouting as well. But these things happen. That's why GMs are almost always fired -- as opposed to working in same job with same team until retirement. It's a difficult job. The greatest GM in Kings history made horrible decisions and got fired a few years after winning two cups. That tells you everything.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They weren't bad picks. At the time, they were likely the most obvious and consensus picks at those spot. But when drafting 18 year olds, it's a gambling projection game and some (maybe a lot) of luck game. So far, both have turn out bad. One because he can't get on the ice; and the other because of who was the other pick deciding between and what that guy has turned into early on.

Very easy in hindsight. But it's unfair to do so and blame. It's bad luck....and likely some bad scouting as well. But these things happen. That's why GMs are almost always fired -- as opposed to working in same job with same team until retirement. It's a difficult job. The greatest GM in Kings history made horrible decisions and got fired a few years after winning two cups. That tells you everything.

still, if (and again, you know me--I'm patient and probably one of the most forgiving of the draft process as a whole) Byfield and Turcotte don't pan out--the Kings are getting up there with the 2010s oilers in terms of absolutely blown lottery picks. Let's not forget the Hickey debacle too, as well as only landing Brown with 3 1st round picks in a historic draft. We aren't making things up when we come down hard on the Kings' first round history. The last 'rebuild' found us picking Hickey, Doughty, Schenn with lottery picks. One can hope this isn't history repeating itself.

Which of course contrasts heavily with how f***ing good they've been for 15 years outside the first round which is what makes it extra mind boggling. They might as well hire another franchise to draft their 1sts in comparison.

 

[King'sPawn]

still, if (and again, you know me--I'm patient and probably one of the most forgiving of the draft process as a whole) Byfield and Turcotte don't pan out--the Kings are getting up there with the 2010s oilers in terms of absolutely blown lottery picks. Let's not forget the Hickey debacle too, as well as only landing Brown with 3 1st round picks in a historic draft. We aren't making things up when we come down hard on the Kings' first round history. The last 'rebuild' found us picking Hickey, Doughty, Schenn with lottery picks. One can hope this isn't history repeating itself.

Which of course contrasts heavily with how f***ing good they've been for 15 years outside the first round which is what makes it extra mind boggling. They might as well hire another franchise to draft their 1sts in comparison.

I love Yannetti's insights, even when I disagree with him, but I do wonder if they've been hurt with the removal of Futa. His roles and responsibilities were reduced shortly after Blake took over then he was out of the org after the 2020 season.

 

[kingsfan28]

Byfield over Stutzle is gonna wind up making Forbort over Tarasenko look like the shrewdest pick in hockey history.

15 teams passed. Nobody was going to risk a high pick on a guy who wouldn't say if he was going to play in the nhl. STL took the chance at #16, and played 3 years later after the lockout.

 

[Schrute farms]

still, if (and again, you know me--I'm patient and probably one of the most forgiving of the draft process as a whole) Byfield and Turcotte don't pan out--the Kings are getting up there with the 2010s oilers in terms of absolutely blown lottery picks. Let's not forget the Hickey debacle too, as well as only landing Brown with 3 1st round picks in a historic draft. We aren't making things up when we come down hard on the Kings' first round history. The last 'rebuild' found us picking Hickey, Doughty, Schenn with lottery picks. One can hope this isn't history repeating itself.

Which of course contrasts heavily with how f***ing good they've been for 15 years outside the first round which is what makes it extra mind boggling. They might as well hire another franchise to draft their 1sts in comparison.

Yeah and if they don’t make it and become very, very good players (byfield especially) then likely Blake will eventually get fired for it down the road.
Unless a couple others become such big stars instead; and that it overshadows the two failures and they actually cup contender/win.

 

[LAKings88]

Byfield WJC weren’t very good. Stutzle was dominant prior to his draft. He was also electric.

Byfield has yet to show he can really elevate. Nice hands and agility. Good speed but he just hasn’t shown he can take over. Big kids in juniors are always a bit scary to project. Still young so guess. Yes he has been better with Kopi. I doubt he ever tops out where Stutzle will.

I’m pissed they drafted all these centers that can’t seem to play center too.

I think they drafted “playoff built mentality” over pure killers.

Hope Clarke can translate at least.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I'm as a big a defender of both Byfield and Turcotte as you'll find because I believe there's still plenty of time for both but those two being picked back to back with what's going on around them is absolutely disastrous looking right now, especially with the Kings' apparent "now is the time" edict.

I don’t have much faith in Turcotte, but I still have faith in Byfield. But yeah. The context of both picks with Blake’s general trajectory and everything else is…yikes.

If even one of those picks is at a Stutzle/Zegras level right now, the Kings are likely the favorites to come out of the west.

 

[kilowatt]

If we’re really being honest with ourselves we’ve had three really good picks since 2014: Kempe (2014 1st round), Roy (2015 7th round), and Anderson (2017 4th round).

Vilardi, Anderson-Dolan, Kupari, Thomas, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Byfield, and Grans are all giant question marks right now.

Clarke and Spence look like they might have a shot here, and guys like Chromiak and Pinelli look interesting too. Vilardi has questions about his health, but the talent is clearly there.

The rest, as first and second round picks, need to show their value here soon.

 

[ru4reals]

Like RJ I've been the biggest Turcs and Byfield supporters and have always preached patience, but man it really pains me to finally admit it, still holding on to that little glimpse of hope, but Turcs is turning out to be a bust. If we can just salvage him as a fourth line player I'd be happy with that. Byfield on the other hand I'm going to give him a bit more time he's still only 20 but definitely has had his ups and downs. Definitely depressing seeing players drafted right after our pick flourishing and being stars in the NHL. Seems like there's one every year. LOL.

 

[chris kontos]

I love Yannetti's insights, even when I disagree with him, but I do wonder if they've been hurt with the removal of Futa. His roles and responsibilities were reduced shortly after Blake took over then he was out of the org after the 2020 season.

dont wonder. once blake and the old boys network that see competence as a threat ran off futa, our relevance in drafting and development took a serious hit.

 

[johnjm22]

Anderson ranks 6th in defensive impact amongst all dmen by this formula.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Like RJ I've been the biggest Turcs and Byfield supporters and have always preached patience, but man it really pains me to finally admit it, still holding on to that little glimpse of hope, but Turcs is turning out to be a bust. If we can just salvage him as a fourth line player I'd be happy with that. Byfield on the other hand I'm going to give him a bit more time he's still only 20 but definitely has had his ups and downs. Definitely depressing seeing players drafted right after our pick flourishing and being stars in the NHL. Seems like there's one every year. LOL.

The Turcotte pick is ultimately excusable. Herby has talked about this a lot, but basically every scouting service had Turcotte ranked exactly where he was picked. Yeah, some had Zegras higher, some had Dach lower, etc., but pretty much everyone believed Turcotte was a consensus 4-7 range first round pick. It was a miss by everyone. It happens.

The Byfield pick, if he busts, falls squarely on the shoulders of Blake, though, as it's arguably not even internally consistent with Blake's "win now" methodology. Stutzle looks like a bonafide superstar forward in the NHL and he's only 21. The Kings desperately needed a player like that with Kopitar on the wrong side of 35.

Most importantly, the development of both Turcotte and Byfield has been handled horribly by Blake/Todd/whoever is obsessed with the AHL.

 

[Herby]

They weren't bad picks. At the time, they were likely the most obvious and consensus picks at those spot. But when drafting 18 year olds, it's a gambling projection game and some (maybe a lot) of luck game. So far, both have turn out bad. One because he can't get on the ice; and the other because of who was the other pick deciding between and what that guy has turned into early on.

Very easy in hindsight. But it's unfair to do so and blame. It's bad luck....and likely some bad scouting as well. But these things happen. That's why GMs are almost always fired -- as opposed to working in same job with same team until retirement. It's a difficult job. The greatest GM in Kings history made horrible decisions and got fired a few years after winning two cups. That tells you everything.

This is all reasonable. But then by the same logic you can’t give the Kings credit for guys like Anderson, Spence and Faber either. I think there is a lot of luck that can’t be controlled but development and deployment decisions can be, and it sure looks like the Kings (who went against the grain in development) made terrible ones. Turcotte is the third Top 5 pick since the the lockout in 2005 to not record a single point in four seasons after being drafted (Thomas Hickey and Michael Dal Colle) and QB I believe is the lowest scoring top 3 pick after 3 seasons in that same time. Obviously this is a really bad look for how the organization is either evaluating, developing or deploying its high end picks. It should not be this hard to get quick results from players taken that high, everyone else is doing it, and the Kings aren’t even close, that is an organizational problem, and a big one.

There was certainly some bad luck with Turcotte, no doubt about it, nobody saw him being this ineffective post NTDP. But it would be nice if the scouts could better spot elite talent that was present with that pick (Zegras, Cozens, Caufield, Boldy), shit the way Blake collects RHD I’m kind of surprised they didn’t take Seider.

 

[KingsFan7824]

dont wonder. once blake and the old boys network that see competence as a threat ran off futa, our relevance in drafting and development took a serious hit.

He was head of amateur scouting from the 08 draft to the 14 draft. Other than the two top 5 picks they had, at least one of which was a no brainer(and if Bogosian was a possibility instead, that's not really an argument for competence), is there a ton to show for those drafts?

One of the arguments we have for why the Kings fell as quickly as they rose, is that they didn't have enough talent to replace all the vets DL brought in to win once they got hurt, aged out, or retired. 08-14 are basically the drafts that didn't replenish the roster.

 

[Schrute farms]

This is all reasonable. But then by the same logic you can’t give the Kings credit for guys like Anderson, Spence and Faber either. I think there is a lot of luck that can’t be controlled but development and deployment decisions can be, and it sure looks like the Kings (who went against the grain in development) made terrible ones. Turcotte is the third Top 5 pick since the the lockout in 2005 to not record a single point in four seasons after being drafted (Thomas Hickey and Michael Dal Colle) and QB I believe is the lowest scoring top 3 pick after 3 seasons in that same time. Obviously this is a really bad look for how the organization is either evaluating, developing or deploying its high end picks. It should not be this hard to get quick results from players taken that high, everyone else is doing it, and the Kings aren’t even close, that is an organizational problem, and a big one.

There was certainly some bad luck with Turcotte, no doubt about it, nobody saw him being this ineffective post NTDP. But it would be nice if the scouts could better spot elite talent that was present with that pick (Zegras, Cozens, Caufield, Boldy), shit the way Blake collects RHD I’m kind of surprised they didn’t take Seider.

Oh totally agree - deployment and development wise it’s been horrible. I’m not sure they have learned from it either; which is a huge concern.

 

[chris kontos]

He was head of amateur scouting from the 08 draft to the 14 draft. Other than the two top 5 picks they had, at least one of which was a no brainer(and if Bogosian was a possibility instead, that's not really an argument for competence), is there a ton to show for those drafts?

One of the arguments we have for why the Kings fell as quickly as they rose, is that they didn't have enough talent to replace all the vets DL brought in to win once they got hurt, aged out, or retired. 08-14 are basically the drafts that didn't replenish the roster.

So then the issue is dl- he traded away picks?

 

[KingsFan7824]

So then the issue is dl- he traded away picks?

Some of it is that, some of is that with the picks they had, they didn't come away with all that much. Clifford, fan favorite, did good things, 4th liner. Missed on Karlsson. Missed on Tarasenko. Those are competence era misses.

 

[chris kontos]

Some of it is that, some of is that with the picks they had, they didn't come away with all that much. Clifford, fan favorite, did good things, 4th liner. Missed on Karlsson. Missed on Tarasenko. Those are competence era misses.

Just my opinion but i belive the draft is almost a total crapshoot. We needed a d man and got forbort as an example there are better ones. Futa was at the end of his tenure at the kings arguably the most elgible candidate as a new gm league wide.

 

[tny760]

Anderson ranks 6th in defensive impact amongst all dmen by this formula.

"healthy nurse is better than doughty at everything"

-main board coilers fans