OT: 2024 Washington Commanders thread: change we can believe in!

[kicksavedave]

No jail time = big disappointment. Daddy's money saved his ass again.

 

[ynotcaps]

I mean, lets be reality, there were a few seasons when they batted .000 on personnel. It brings up a good question, what is a reasonable expectation for a great FO to hit on? .750 overall (draft and FA). 500? We all know that not every draft pick will make it, not everyone will become a stud starter, some are destined to be mediocre starters or backups, journeymen types. But what is a really good hit rate for a Super Bowl hopeful FO to actually hit on? Obviously as well the expectations for a 1st or 2nd are different than a 7th or UDFA.

Would take more energy than I have these days to cycle through the Chiefs, Ravens and Eagles drafts/transactions over 10 years to compare them to say, Ron Rivera's but it would be entertaining to see the results.

Some outlet did that very thing a year or so ago, and it was not remotely entertaining to see the results still under Ron at the time, so it was depressingly hopeless reality, not 'wow, shit" rearview-mirror stuff.

Might have been SF in place of one of PHI or BAL. Will see if I can find it, but set your expectation low -- like, Ron Rivera-draft low...

No jail time = big disappointment. Daddy's money saved his ass again.

huh. Wonder if he's been able to find a job yet.

 

[ynotcaps]

Oh, shit. Wait. I think I did comparison like a year or two ago. Bottom line, KC, SF and BAL were all much better than us.

Jeezus, getting old sucks.

 

[Chokingdogs]

No jail time = big disappointment. Daddy's money saved his ass again.

While that particular behavior, and all his prior transgressions, certainly warranted slammer time in the immediacy…

5 years on probation is a LONG time. He strikes me as the when, not if, another event takes place kind of person.

Not knowing the details of the probation makes for speculation, but I have to believe there’s quite a bit in there that, being done, would be considered a violation.

 

[g00n]

While that particular behavior, and all his prior transgressions, certainly warranted slammer time in the immediacy…

5 years on probation is a LONG time. He strikes me as the when, not if, another event takes place kind of person.

Not knowing the details of the probation makes for speculation, but I have to believe there’s quite a bit in there that, being done, would be considered a violation.

If he's ordered to attend "treatment programs" he's likely going to AA/NA and counseling and submitting to testing and is either going to get his shit together in 5yrs or fail a test and end up in the pokey.

 

[g00n]

Rivera namedropping Belichick to make his descent seem "cool"

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Rivera the coach is a fraud. He’s just trying to get any job at this point.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

JD doing a tour of super bowl media today. To many clips to post.
I wouldnt want to be at the SB after losing the NFC champ game. That must sting seeing all the Eagles trash

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Commanders brass had ‘screaming match’ on draft day over controversial 1st rounder who they cut — Sporting News

The Washington Commanders had an unprecedented turnaround in 2024, but there were some bizarre football decisions before the new regime took over. According to one insider, there was a heated argument with the decision to draft Emmanuel Forbes in the first round.

apple.news

“I don’t want to give away state secrets but during the Ron era there was real dissension over some of the philosophical decision as it related to size,” Finlay said.. “The easiest thing to point to, and I know there was a screaming match on draft day, about the Forbes decision when Gonzalez was there. They were like yo, this dude has prototype size, speed, and every measurable you have. And you look at a lot of the decisions in the Ron era, and they were not scared of what you would want with size and speed.’

 

[ynotcaps]

Commanders brass had ‘screaming match’ on draft day over controversial 1st rounder who they cut — Sporting News

The Washington Commanders had an unprecedented turnaround in 2024, but there were some bizarre football decisions before the new regime took over. According to one insider, there was a heated argument with the decision to draft Emmanuel Forbes in the first round.

apple.news

“I don’t want to give away state secrets but during the Ron era there was real dissension over some of the philosophical decision as it related to size,” Finlay said.. “The easiest thing to point to, and I know there was a screaming match on draft day, about the Forbes decision when Gonzalez was there. They were like yo, this dude has prototype size, speed, and every measurable you have. And you look at a lot of the decisions in the Ron era, and they were not scared of what you would want with size and speed.’

Sean Labar needs to do his research. Forbes was not 180 lbs when we drafted him -- his measured weight was 166, and that was probably after his training team held him down and shoved cheeseburgers down his gullet until he was on the verge of exploding.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Sean Labar needs to do his research. Forbes was not 180 lbs when we drafted him -- his measured weight was 166, and that was probably after his training team held him down and shoved cheeseburgers down his gullet until he was on the verge of exploding.

Yep, but it just makes the point look even worse for Rivera…

Actually after digging more, I saw it reported that he was 166 at the combine, at Pro day he was 170. Who knows on Draft Day? Probably all inflated either way…

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Make it happen. The 28th pick has almost no chance to hit

 

[max21]

Alright go get that guy

 

[RedRocking]

Make it happen. The 28th pick has almost no chance to hit

I like how he laughs in a “what a silly question! How dare you mock my situation, sir” ….then proceeds to give a detailed answer as to why he’d be a good fit in DC.

I don’t know what the cost will be - but hard to think of any other player that could improve next year’s team as much as MG.

 

[g00n]

I like how he laughs in a “what a silly question! How dare you mock my situation, sir” ….then proceeds to give a detailed answer as to why he’d be a good fit in DC.

I don’t know what the cost will be - but hard to think of any other player that could improve next year’s team as much as MG.

Add an elite power RB and maybe a stud nose guard or DT run stopper and we're really talking

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Add an elite power RB and maybe a stud nose guard or DT run stopper and we're really talking

Its an awesome RB draft class. If we keep some picks after a Myles trade RB should be a target

 

[Cush]

No jail time = big disappointment. Daddy's money saved his ass again.

 

[Jags]

My armchair psychologist conclusion is, this must be what it feels like to NOT know for an absolute certainty that you are smarter than your team's FO, and that if they don't follow your guidance, they will irretrievably f*** everything up.

I'm such a hockey nut that I don't have time to also be a football nut, so this is the level of confusion I'm at with the NFL 24/7. Totally at the mercy of those who know better and happy to let them sort it out. I usually get a pretty good handle on it by draft day, but even then it's hard to figure out how best to spend whatever assets are available.

Add that to all the stuff we don't know -- Do they consider Lattimore something to build on, or a new problem to solve? Did Sinnott show them something behind the scenes this year? Where are they with Allen/Payne? Things like that, that either could be no problem or require major cash or assets to address.

Things start snapping more into focus once the pieces start to fall. Oh, they're addressing DE this way, which means they're likely looking over there to solve WR, and so on.

As a Skins fan these last couple decades it hasn't been so complicated because we needed everything and failed at finding it most of the time, overpaying for it when we did AND when we didn't. Now that we actually have something to build on and can see what the squeaky wheels are, it feels like there are very specific right and wrong answers.

Way harder to build a champ than to just figure out how to minimize the level of suck.

It brings up a good question, what is a reasonable expectation for a great FO to hit on?

Yeah, and then there's the realization that the subtractions are often as important as the additions. Not just cutting bait, but knowing when best to and how. There's a level of sophistication to building a winner, especially in football because there are so many goddamn positions. Drilling down hard enough to understand every ounce of it requires either a staff of people or a chess prodigy level of obsession (and corresponding madness).

I find that it's easier to NOT do that, stay zoomed out, and just think of it as alchemy. The GM is either a wizard or a charlatan.

Would take more energy than I have these days to cycle through the Chiefs, Ravens and Eagles drafts/transactions over 10 years to compare them to say, Ron Rivera's but it would be entertaining to see the results.

Well, we did the crucial part already -- Solved the QB spot and got enough key guys on the roster in other positions to build around. Having that foundation definitely increases your leeway, don't have to be quite as perfect. That'll get you into the discussion of the best teams. Then it's an arms race among them and boils down to who can stay healthy and who shows up on game day.

Those teams did it that way. There's no real mystery to it. Embrace turnover along the way to keep things fresh and you can ride that core till they're done. Consider too many guys core, don't embrace turnover, and your "dynasty" won't last more than 2 or 3 years.

So we want to avoid doing what Indy did with Luck and what Cincy might be teetering on doing with Burrow. But we also need to avoid having our Marino and never figuring out the best way to go all-in while he's at the height of his powers.

Alchemy, I tell ya. But yeah, when you DO find that balance, staying there can be as easy as knowing when and how to rotate the tires.

 

[RedRocking]

Well, we did the crucial part already -- Solved the QB spot and got enough key guys on the roster in other positions to build around. Having that foundation definitely increases your leeway, don't have to be quite as perfect. That'll get you into the discussion of the best teams. Then it's an arms race among them and boils down to who can stay healthy and who shows up on game day.

See, this is what gives me pause when talking about trading multiple 1sts for MG. Who actually are our foundational pieces? And do we really have that many of them?

- We have key guys on their last legs, that will need to be replaced ASAP: Wagner, Ertz

- We have key guys in their prime, but getting older: Terry, Allen/Payne, Lattimore, Ekeler, (MG would go here)

- We have journeymen who are good value: Luvu, Fowler, Biadasz, Armstrong

But, actual young foundational pieces: JD, Cosmi, Coleman, Mikey, and….

- TBD: BRob, Newton, Chinn, Sinnott, LMC, Dyami Brown

Having so few players to show from Ron’s drafts is a huge ongoing problem. We need more cost controlled youth. And then guys worth giving second contracts.

Makes me think we need to keep our picks; even trade down to get more. As great as MG is, the acquisition cost might be a few foundational pieces found in the draft.

 

[Bananas]

See, this is what gives me pause when talking about trading multiple 1sts for MG. Who actually are our foundational pieces? And do we really have that many of them?

- We have key guys on their last legs, that will need to be replaced ASAP: Wagner, Ertz

- We have key guys in their prime, but getting older: Terry, Allen/Payne, Lattimore, Ekeler, (MG would go here)

- We have journeymen who are good value: Luvu, Fowler, Biadasz, Armstrong

But, actual young foundational pieces: JD, Cosmi, Coleman, Mikey, and….

- TBD: BRob, Newton, Chinn, Sinnott, LMC, Dyami Brown

Having so few players to show from Ron’s drafts is a huge ongoing problem. We need more cost controlled youth. And then guys worth giving second contracts.

Makes me think we need to keep our picks; even trade down to get more. As great as MG is, the acquisition cost might be a few foundational pieces found in the draft.

This is correct and so obvious. I’m surprised THAT many people are “in” on a potential Garrett trade.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Can’t be afraid to deal….sitting on your ass at this point just wastes JD’s prime years and cheap salary slot.

If AP goes after MG, I trust the decision. The guy is a legit one man force on D.

 

[g00n]

Yeah you don't get to the NFC championship every day. Stepping back into a "whoah let's pump the brakes and slowly rebuild" mode right now could backfire as much or more than going too far too fast.