Boston Bruins 2023 Off-Season CAP, Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk X

[UncleRico]

How? He was 9-16-25 with a -32 last year. 6-15-21 with -16 the year before.

Frederic was 17-14-31 with a +28. And the year before was 8-10-18 with a +10.

Kurashev has had a better career and at a younger age. Also because arbiters look at whole career not just the year before.

Kurashev 191gp 23 goal 39 assists 62 points by end of age 23 season

Frederic 198gp 29 goals 25 assists 54 points by end of age 24 season

Both no PP time with similar PK time. Sure if you want to count +/- it greatly favors frederic, but thats much more a product of being on the teams they are on.

However I do find it funny just the other day you went on an entire rant about how people shouldnt use plus/minus and how it "isnt a plausible way to evaluate player performance" but now you are using it when it favors your argument.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Kurashev has had a better career and at a younger age. Also because arbiters look at whole career not just the year before.

Kurashev 191gp 23 goal 39 assists 62 points by end of age 23 season

Frederic 198gp 29 goals 25 assists 54 points by end of age 24 season

Both no PP time with similar PK time. Sure if you want to count +/- it greatly favors frederic, but thats much more a product of being on the teams they are on.

However I do find it funny just the other day you went on an entire rant about how people shouldnt use plus/minus and how it "isnt a plausible way to evaluate player performance" but now you are using it when it favors your argument.

I don’t think it is a plausible to use +\- with millions of dollars on the line but I was slapped down and told the arbitrators use it in their analysis. So shouldn’t I listen to that? Shouldn’t Frederic being way way above Kurashev factor into his award since the stat is used?

And they don’t value the years equally.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Career he has more points ,less games in less years on a rock bottom team


Your splitting hairs.
I saw leafs offering 2M , his camp was asking 4.9M

$4.9M and $2.4M. So they awarded just below the middle.

 

[UncleRico]

I don’t think it is a plausible to use +\- with millions of dollars on the line but I was slapped down and told the arbitrators use it in their analysis. So shouldn’t I listen to that? Shouldn’t Frederic being way way above Kurashev factor into his award since the stat is used?

And they don’t value the years equally.

Who knows, Kurahev has put up better numbers on a worse team with much less talented line mates.

I’d be surprised if the arbiters thought Frederics plus/minus would over take the fact that kurashev had more points in less games and at younger age to boot.

Though I wish we got to see Brett Howden go to arbitration because Howden and kurashev would have painted a nice range of where Frederic should fall.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Who knows, Kurahev has put up better numbers on a worse team with much less talented line mates.

I’d be surprised if the arbiters thought Frederics plus/minus would over take the fact that kurashev had more points in less games and at younger age to boot.

They also could consider that Frederic was way better than him last year and scored 17 even strength goals.

Kurashev getting that award despite his plus minus gives me hope that the arbitrators completely threw that stat out for him - as they should. But will they also throw out a +28 from Frederic?

 

[UncleRico]

They also could consider that Frederic was way better than him last year and scored 17 even strength goals.

Kurashev getting that award despite his plus minus gives me hope that the arbitrators completely threw that stat out for him - as they should. But will they also throw out a +28 from Frederic?

I guess it all depends how they weight it, career vs 1 solid year. Also if they factor kurashev being better at a younger age

 

[DKH]

How? He was 9-16-25 with a -32 last year. 6-15-21 with -16 the year before.

Frederic was 17-14-31 with a +28. And the year before was 8-10-18 with a +10.

If this is Price is Right where I would be heeing and hawing is

Over/Under Freddy submits $3.25

Over/Under Sweens submits $2.25

I’m going they both submitted over

 

[DominicT]

Neither Swayman or Frederic or the Bruins can use these two awards in their arbitration cases.

 

[DominicT]

I don’t think it is a plausible to use +\- with millions of dollars on the line but I was slapped down and told the arbitrators use it in their analysis. So shouldn’t I listen to that? Shouldn’t Frederic being way way above Kurashev factor into his award since the stat is used?

And they don’t value the years equally.

The arbitrator does not/can not use anything that is not presented in the 45 pages of evidence submitted to them by the team or the agent.

Any stat, will come down to which side makes the argument best.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Neither Swayman or Frederic or the Bruins can use these two awards in their arbitration cases.

Exactly. They basically got participation trophies

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Seems like every time I see what the two sides counter each other with in arbitration, the award is exclusively almost smack-dab in the middle. Like the arbitrator is the banker in Deal or No Deal. An algorithm.

Could be I just don't pay close enough attention though.

 

[dugg133]

Neither Swayman or Frederic or the Bruins can use these two awards in their arbitration cases.

honest question, how is either side supposed to establish what fair value is for a player without looking around the league at what other players with similar production are making?

Like if I'm an agent and I'm representing a player that let's say scores 0.6 P/gp, how am I supposed to establish what my player is worth without looking around the league and saying "these players all score at similar rates and make x, so my player deserves y".

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

honest question, how is either side supposed to establish what fair value is for a player without looking around the league at what other players with similar production are making?

Like if I'm an agent and I'm representing a player that let's say scores 0.6 P/gp, how am I supposed to establish what my player is worth without looking around the league and saying "these players all score at similar rates and make x, so my player deserves y".

Seems to me that there would be countless other examples of similar players they could use without requiring the arbitration awards from this season.

Also, since these numbers seem to be "in the middle", I feel if either side wanted to make the strongest case, they'd avoid these awards anyway.

 

[Mainehockey33]

honest question, how is either side supposed to establish what fair value is for a player without looking around the league at what other players with similar production are making?

Like if I'm an agent and I'm representing a player that let's say scores 0.6 P/gp, how am I supposed to establish what my player is worth without looking around the league and saying "these players all score at similar rates and make x, so my player deserves y".

They can look around the league for comparisons, but they can’t use players that were just went through arbitration if I’m understanding it right.

 

[dugg133]

They can look around the league for comparisons, but they can’t use players that were just went through arbitration if I’m understanding it right.

ok that makes way more sense.

 

[DominicT]

Seems like every time I see what the two sides counter each other with in arbitration, the award is exclusively almost smack-dab in the middle. Like the arbitrator is the banker in Deal or No Deal. An algorithm.

Could be I just don't pay close enough attention though.

The process has gotten to the point that everyone including the arbitrator knows that the agents ask is going to be higher than what they would typically ask in a negotiation and the team is going to come in lower than what they would offer in a negotiation therefore its split almost down the middle.

I prefer MLB system where the arbitrator picks either the team's number or the player's. Many believe it would keep both sides honest. I guess I can see it.

But the system today in the NHL forces the two sides to come to an agreement before arbitration. I think the system needs fixing.

 

[bbfan419]

Pretty much yes. There was unfortunately never going to be any other outcome after the Bruins signed the dotted line on his contract

Should have been a house cleaning for not doing their due diligence.

 

[Bridges31]

In situations like the Miller case, the NHLPA should make exceptions and allow teams to just cancel the contrct without any payment going to the player.

Especially with Bettman saying that he won’t give the OK for Miller to play after he signed his contract. Sets a bad precedent that the commissioner can prohibit a player from playing after a contract has been signed.

 

[JOKER 192]

$4.9M and $2.4M. So they awarded just below the middle.

Still splitting hairs even at that. The middle would have been 3.65

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Still splitting hairs even at that. The middle would have been 3.65

The implication was that the arbitrators are getting lazy and just picking the mid point. It’s actually surprising they went more towards the team in this case, if only a little bit.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Kurashev has had a better career and at a younger age. Also because arbiters look at whole career not just the year before.

Kurashev 191gp 23 goal 39 assists 62 points by end of age 23 season

Frederic 198gp 29 goals 25 assists 54 points by end of age 24 season

Both no PP time with similar PK time. Sure if you want to count +/- it greatly favors frederic, but thats much more a product of being on the teams they are on.

However I do find it funny just the other day you went on an entire rant about how people shouldnt use plus/minus and how it "isnt a plausible way to evaluate player performance" but now you are using it when it favors your argument.

Interesting.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

The arbitrator does not/can not use anything that is not presented in the 45 pages of evidence submitted to them by the team or the agent.

Any stat, will come down to which side makes the argument best.

Excuse my naiveness about this, but it seems most arbitrations seem like they just find the middle ground.

Is there an example where the arbitrator takes the side noticeably closer to one side (team) than the other (player) or vice versa?

Like let's say one side brings in 5 and the other says three. It feels like the arbitrators (at least from what I've been reading typically tend to pick 4, give or take small margin of difference)? Or is this just a complete oversimplification, but same result?

 

[dugg133]

Kurashev has had a better career and at a younger age. Also because arbiters look at whole career not just the year before.

Kurashev 191gp 23 goal 39 assists 62 points by end of age 23 season

Frederic 198gp 29 goals 25 assists 54 points by end of age 24 season

Both no PP time with similar PK time. Sure if you want to count +/- it greatly favors frederic, but thats much more a product of being on the teams they are on.

However I do find it funny just the other day you went on an entire rant about how people shouldnt use plus/minus and how it "isnt a plausible way to evaluate player performance" but now you are using it when it favors your argument.

Kurashev hasn't played no PP though, he averaged 2 minutes a game on the PP this past season and has never had a season where he's averaged less then 1 min a game. Him and Frederic haven't been deployed at all in the same way.

 

[Ratty]

If there is a pattern of arbitrators taking the safe way out by selecting the mid point of the disputed contract there should be a change in the arbitration rules.To wit: pick one side or the other.
The arbitrator could indicate to the parties that he is leaning to one side based on the presentations, that they should consider a settlement.

 

[DominicT]

Excuse my naiveness about this, but it seems most arbitrations seem like they just find the middle ground.

Is there an example where the arbitrator takes the side noticeably closer to one side (team) than the other (player) or vice versa?

Like let's say one side brings in 5 and the other says three. It feels like the arbitrators (at least from what I've been reading typically tend to pick 4, give or take small margin of difference)? Or is this just a complete oversimplification, but same result?

That's the point I've been making.

The vast majority of cases never make it to arbitration. Those that do, the team and the player are coming off of a long negotiation process so they know very well where the other side stands. To use your numbers, if both sides begrudgingly know it's going to come in around $4 million based in how negotiations have gone, the team will come in with a lowball offer of $3 million and the player $5 million knowing full well the arbitrator is coming in somewhere in the middle.

To answer your question about an arbitrator leaning more to one side or the other: Off the top of my head Shea Weber comes to mind. In 2011, Nashville offered $4.75 million while his agent was seeking $8.5 million. The arbitrator awarded $7.5 million. In 2006, the Devils went in with $3.5 million for Scott Gomez while the player was asking $6.5 million. The arbitrator came in at $5 million.

One of the weirdest was PK Subban and the Canadiens. The team had offered $5.25 million and the player was asking $8.5 million. They went to arbitration where both sides admitted it didn't go well for them but before the arbitrator handed down the award they agreed to a 8-year $9 million per year deal. Unlike today, in those days you could negotiate up until the arbitrator makes their decision.

Those were a long time ago in hockey terms.