Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[Ducks]

Aww ok, well that settles it. Seems we only can agree with scouts we say what we want to hear or they are stupid.

Umm, no. He had some ridiculous takes like Carlsson being the better player in 5 years over Bedard and Fantilli not being able to play center in the NHL. These are takes that virtually nobody else in the scouting community has and they don't pass the sniff test.

 

[Goose of Reason]

I personally lean Fantilli, but would be lying if I said much of that is not due to him being the Consensus and the fact that I am not a professional scout, so I can’t help but defer to the consensus. That being said, in the half dozen Michigan games and all WJC and WC games I watched of Fantilli, I saw many of the things Brad Allen (of the respected NHL Draft Black Book) talks about.

Good conversation, I've been waiting to hear some of the HP guys discuss Fantilli vs Carlsson since they're on the side that Carlsson is ahead. Although the most interesting part to me was Shane Malloy's go to example as a half wall playmaker being "Ales Hemsky". A good player but an odd first choice off the top of the dome.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Umm, no. He had some ridiculous takes like Carlsson being the better player in 5 years over Bedard and Fantilli not being able to play center in the NHL. These are takes that virtually nobody else in the scouting community has and they don't pass the sniff test.

Many scouts have expressed concerns about Fantilli being a center, I guess you’re not paying attention. Again, it seems ok when scouts suggest Fantilli could be better than Bedard in 5 years? Did I agree with everything Brad Allen said, no, but I did see some of the things in mentions when I watch Fantill/Carlsson.

 

[Heckyea]

Brad Allen said some really stupid things in that video.

Thanks for pulling up that video it was fascinating to see those three try to sort things out.

Brad is the first person to say firmly that Fantili be a winger instead of center. Does that actually mean anything? Centers get shifted to wing all the time. He says conditioning is good? Good. Can push it with pace? Good. Has problems with passing? Ok whatever he'll get goals.

But Bukala notes the fact that the Michigan system was designed for the engine that was Fantili. Of course he'd succeed and rack up the points. Let's see him in a different system. On the the national squad he showed that he is a humble hard working player. He is what he's proven to be: A relentless workhorse that wants to do whatever it takes to win. A selfless player who brings the intensity.

I'm sure Carlsson has the same drive and desire but shows it in a more tactical approach. But Bukala is absolutely right in the outlook that Carlsson will be more of an assist man than Fantili being the scoring man. Getzlaf had a pretty good career as an assist man. Maybe Gaucher will be the Perry type.

What kind of top-6 player do the Ducks need right now? Whoever the Ducks choose will reveal exactly what type of team Verbeek wants. And like many of you have pointed out, PVB claims he wants grit and toughness but can he resist the pure offensive talent that Michkov promises?

 

[Goose of Reason]

Umm, no. He had some ridiculous takes like Carlsson being the better player in 5 years over Bedard and Fantilli not being able to play center in the NHL. These are takes that virtually nobody else in the scouting community has and they don't pass the sniff test.

"I see a winger. I think it’s a real stretch for him to play in the middle in the NHL. He doesn’t think it fast enough or see it well enough to play center. Throw him on the wing with those physical tools and his work ethic and he’ll be really good.” - NHL Scout, January 2023

“I think he’ll eventually end up playing on the wing.” - NHL Scout, February 2023

“I like the Swede at Center and I think Fantilli will be better on the wing.” - NHL Scout, March 2023

Some quotes from the HP Black Book. It's definitely not just Brad who has voiced that.

 

[robbieboy3686]

"I see a winger. I think it’s a real stretch for him to play in the middle in the NHL. He doesn’t think it fast enough or see it well enough to play center. Throw him on the wing with those physical tools and his work ethic and he’ll be really good.” - NHL Scout, January 2023

“I think he’ll eventually end up playing on the wing.” - NHL Scout, February 2023

“I like the Swede at Center and I think Fantilli will be better on the wing.” - NHL Scout, March 2023

Some quotes from the HP Black Book. It's definitely not just Brad who has voiced that.

That’s fine if he ends up a top line winger. I have no doubt zegras and Big Mac can be a great 1/2 center punch anyways. Lol, no matter how y’all slice it. The Fanta man is our guy on draft day.

 

[forever1922]

Those opinions are I think based on Fantilli's transitioning stats/play. That is also the critique Elite Prospects had of Fantilli, as his transition stats (NCAA) and overly optimistic/ill-timed plays could end up turning pucks over.

That is however more than made up by the control he generates while on the ice, because he is such an effective checker and puck controller. His team still ends up way ahead. It is also what was evident in the WC: he might turn it over once in a while but he would be disrupting plays, turning them the other way, making little give-and-go plays to exit with speed and numbers so often. Just so many things that a center needs. Also, it is not uncommon for young forwards to cut those habits as they mature. All that said, there is no doubt in my mind he is an NHL center.

 

[HanSolo]

I don't think it's as difficult a decision as people are speculating, I think people just want something to speculate on.

Well you never really know where your GM and head scout's head is at. I mean who was confident Anaheim was taking Lindholm in 2012 or McTavish in 2021?

The whole hockey world knows who the likely pick is but with two maybe 3 other guys in contention you can't really know what is being discussed in these scouting meetings and pre draft conference until after the pick is made if the team chooses to show us behind the scenes footage.

Chicago arguably has the easiest decision to make, while Anaheim has, arguably, the hardest. It may not seem hard to us based on what we as fans want, but these guys only have one chance to make the best pick.

 

[KyleJRM]

Ill keep saying it: The difference between a center and a wing in the modern NHL is minimal. Other than taking faceoffs, the systems the teams run are pretty fluid and forwards can have all kinds of different responsibilities.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Ill keep saying it: The difference between a center and a wing in the modern NHL is minimal. Other than taking faceoffs, the systems the teams run are pretty fluid and forwards can have all kinds of different responsibilities.

You shouldn’t keep saying it. I tend to agree that offensively your forwards can be mostly positionless but it’s a massive gulf in the other half of the ice. There’s a reason teams continue to value centers like gold and wingers are fairly expendable.

 

[duckpuck]

You shouldn’t keep saying it. I tend to agree that offensively your forwards can be mostly positionless but it’s a massive gulf in the other half of the ice. There’s a reason teams continue to value centers like gold and wingers are fairly expendable.

I agree with this. If you feel one player is likely a center and the another is a winger, then all other things being equal you take the center. The question is are the other things equal?

At this point, we just need to trust the ducks GM and scouts. While it seems a majority of scouts prefer Fantilli, there are many who like Carlsson in the long run. My guess is both become very good NHL players.

 

[KyleJRM]

You shouldn’t keep saying it. I tend to agree that offensively your forwards can be mostly positionless but it’s a massive gulf in the other half of the ice. There’s a reason teams continue to value centers like gold and wingers are fairly expendable.

Teams switch those responsibilities up all the time. Zegras is nominally a center, but they routinely put him with a defensively sound veteran winger who takes over more defensive responsiblity for him.

 

[Ducks]

Fantilli is a natural center with size, speed, and skills. He just won the Hobey Baker as a freshman playing center. He's going to be an NHL center and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get their eyes checked.

Also, Carlsson being better than Bedard in 5 years is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard in regards to rhis draft.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Teams switch those responsibilities up all the time. Zegras is nominally a center, but they routinely put him with a defensively sound veteran winger who takes over more defensive responsiblity for him.

Yes, because he’s a developing young player and they’re trying to ease him in and almost always that “defensively sound veteran winger” is just a center playing the wing. And this scenario is the whole point of the argument. Someone who can be a full-time center where they don’t have to be sheltered in the defensive zone is always going to be more valuable than someone who can’t.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Hasn’t Allen been a Fantilli naysayer for a bit? Unless that was the same video but I don’t think it is. To me he comes across as hoping for and trying to seize on a Fantilli disappointment to further his own profile and credibility.

 

[pbgoalie]

REWARD??? For rooting for losses? Don't get me started on that shit again. To those of you who rooted against us, I hope we pick the guy you don't want.

I would say the reward was for being competitive for many seasons even through a retool, before hitting bottom.
We’ve sucked for a bit but are paying for a pretty great franchise ride.

 

[ohcomeonref]

Whether Fantilli ends up on Z's wing or centering Z I'm not sure how much it matters. We get a shooter to go with a high-end playmaker and that's probably the most important thing.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Hates people who rooted for the Ducks to lose for 1 season. Roots for the Ducks franchise player to bust causing the Ducks to be mediocre for the next decade.

Makes sense.

I said

"A part of me (because misery loves company) wants to see whoever we pick be a bust or at least a disappointment just so those fans who cheered on the Ducks to lose to feel worse then they did after losing the 1st overall pick in the draft lottery."

Part of me wants others to feel bad like I have that is part of human nature. The rest of me wants whoever we pick to become a hall of famer helping the Ducks win so many championships thus becoming a dynasty.

Even if the player we draft with that pick busts it doesn't mean Ducks will be medicore for the next decade they could still become a good team with all the young players we have maturing. I am surprised you think the 1 player we draft with 2nd overall will make or break the team.

 

[Gliff]

I said

"A part of me (because misery loves company) wants to see whoever we pick be a bust or at least a disappointment just so those fans who cheered on the Ducks to lose to feel worse then they did after losing the 1st overall pick in the draft lottery."

Part of me wants others to feel bad like I have that is part of human nature. The rest of me wants whoever we pick to become a hall of famer helping the Ducks win so many championships thus becoming a dynasty.

Even if the player we draft with that pick busts it doesn't mean Ducks will be medicore for the next decade they could still become a good team with all the young players we have maturing. I am surprised you think the 1 player we draft with 2nd overall will make or break the team.

Go look at how often teams without multiple top 3 picks on the roster win the Cup. Hitting on those picks when you get the opportunity is the most important thing in hockey. Everything else can be had in other ways. Superstars are almost exclusively picked at that level.

 

[Youngguns1380]

The only part that is bad is that Columbus might take Smith and SJ gets franchise superstar Fantilli.
Cannot let SJ end up with him.

CBJ land we are talking the same thing except between Fantilli/Carlsson it’s Carlsson/Smith. Don’t know why the clickbait for Smith. It’s pretty easy Bedard then Fantilli or Carlsson at Picks 2 & 3. Either way they are both 1C’s and play different games - can’t go wrong either way (I have liked Carlsson well before the draft lottery). So don’t care at long as CBJ lands one of them.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Fantilli is a natural center with size, speed, and skills. He just won the Hobey Baker as a freshman playing center. He's going to be an NHL center and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get their eyes checked.

Also, Carlsson being better than Bedard in 5 years is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard in regards to rhis draft.

Fantilli is a natural center with size, speed, and skills. He just won the Hobey Baker as a freshman playing center. He's going to be an NHL center and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get their eyes checked.

Also, Carlsson being better than Bedard in 5 years is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard in regards to rhis draft.

I guess you should be a scout, and a psychic while you’re at it.

Fantilli may very well be a center, but i absolutely would not call him a natural center (in the same way that I don’t think MacKinnon is a natural center). That doesnt mean he can’t believe be a great center, but I don’t think vision and playmaking are his strongest traits, and I think those are incredibly important at center.

 

[HanSolo]

I said

"A part of me (because misery loves company) wants to see whoever we pick be a bust or at least a disappointment just so those fans who cheered on the Ducks to lose to feel worse then they did after losing the 1st overall pick in the draft lottery."

Part of me wants others to feel bad like I have that is part of human nature. The rest of me wants whoever we pick to become a hall of famer helping the Ducks win so many championships thus becoming a dynasty.

Even if the player we draft with that pick busts it doesn't mean Ducks will be medicore for the next decade they could still become a good team with all the young players we have maturing. I am surprised you think the 1 player we draft with 2nd overall will make or break the team.

It's human nature if you are petty, emotionally immature and vindictive. Listen, I've always liked reading your takes and opinions over the years and I know from context that you're dealing with some degree of depression and on that front I've been there big time and I empathize.

But being a hockey fan has its ups and downs and you just gotta tough it out sometimes. Some like you want to avoid the worst result possible for the way the season ends, others view it as fleeting and see there's some recompense for all the suffering this year with a high draft pick and leverage that more towards hope than vindictive desire to see others suffer because they don't cheer the way you cheer.

Even if only a small part of you is hoping that the 2023 first round pick is a failure to spite the fans you disapprove of, that's a really petty and vindictive way to look at things.

Again, how would you react if my response was, "well if that's how you feel, some small part of me hopes the team finishes last 3 years in a row so you can really feel bad." It's essentially the same logic and intent, but I bet you'd feel like it was a pretty petty and shitty thing to say.

 

[Youngguns1380]

It’s a little out of their lane and there’s a lot of variables missing, hence the info isn’t quite as reliable, but I do think it’s telling that seemingly every major insider expects that to be the pick. To fans it’s the first major spot of intrigue and they’re really not acting like it is. They’re not nearly as reliable for this kind of stuff, and it is still pretty early, but yeah I think it’s noteworthy.

The last mock drafts, especially Pronman’s, will be interesting to see, even if there’s a good chance they play it safe. It’ll also be very interesting to see what Aaron Portzline in Columbus is saying once everyone gets to Nashville.

FYI - majority of CBJ fans trust Porty draft predictions less than our horoscopes. The draftees and draft is his blind spot as well as not having an inside source to the CBJ anymore. Good writer but mostly his opinions.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

CBJ land we are talking the same thing except between Fantilli/Carlsson it’s Carlsson/Smith. Don’t know why the clickbait for Smith. It’s pretty easy Bedard then Fantilli or Carlsson at Picks 2 & 3. Either way they are both 1C’s and play different games - can’t go wrong either way (I have liked Carlsson well before the draft lottery). So don’t care at long as CBJ lands one of them.

Yeah I'll be very happy if Columbus gets Fantilli or Carlsson(the one we don't pick) because it means SJ only gets Smith/Michkov/Leonard.

SJ has a pure lack of size in their center prospects down the middle with Eklund and Bordeleau. Fantilli would give SJ a big and speedy C who will hit and shoot, a guy who could dominate Zegras or McTavish in matchups using both his size and speed.

Carlsson would give SJ a Swedish Jumbo Joe Thornton who replaces the big playmaker pass first guy they had in their glory days. If he learns to be physical his 6'3 frame will spell trouble for Zegras and McTavish in matchups as well as how smart he is.

Now if SJ gets Smith or Michkov it would be much easier for us even with how skilled they are, they ain't big and its 2 to 3 years before Mitch arrives. Fantilli could probably wreck Michkov with hits if it's true on tankathon that Michkov is only 148 pounds lol.

 

[Youngguns1380]

Yeah I'll be very happy if Columbus gets Fantilli or Carlsson(the one we don't pick) because it means SJ only gets Smith/Michkov/Leonard.

SJ has a pure lack of size in their center prospects down the middle with Eklund and Bordeleau. Fantilli would give SJ a big and speedy C who will hit and shoot, a guy who could dominate Zegras or McTavish in matchups using both his size and speed.

Carlsson would give SJ a Swedish Jumbo Joe Thornton who replaces the big playmaker pass first guy they had in their glory days. If he learns to be physical his 6'3 frame will spell trouble for Zegras and McTavish in matchups as well as how smart he is.

Now if SJ gets Smith or Michkov it would be much easier for us even with how skilled they are, they ain't big and its 2 to 3 years before Mitch arrives. Fantilli could probably wreck Michkov with hits if it's true on tankathon that Michkov is only 148 pounds lol.

Agreed - I think all the talk about the CBJ & Ducks picking Smith or Michkov is a smokescreen as well.

Everyone knows Montreal wants to move up and assume they want Smith. Smart play would be to have them compensate the CBJ (#4) and San Jose (#5) to switch picks. CBJ gets Couture (retained) and San Jose gets draft capital. CBJ at 4 would pick Carlsson (overpay).

Same thing the Ducks are trying to do with the CBJ, San Jose, Montreal. I don’t see the Ducks picking anyone other than Fantilli at #2. If the Ducks do pick Carlsson then the CBJ are picking Fantilli.

All this back and forth is trying to get someone to overpay or clickbait.

San Jose is years away from competing that is why Michkov makes sense for their pick. With this year’s picks and graduating some prospects I see the Ducks & CBJ greatly improving in the next 2 years. Possibly WC teams within the next 2 seasons. Both team’s defense is going to be really good in a short period of time.