2022/23 Roster Thread XIII: Where the 13th Floor Has Been Located

[Ghosts Beer]

Ah yes, Kevin Hayes was the ONLY move that they could have made.

What else? Going with Morgan Frost like most of this board wanted?

Duchene, who made it clear he wanted Nashville?

Brock Nelson, who I supported (to the mockery of a well-known poster here) but who re-signed in Long Island?

Or tanking, which wasn't an option?

Please, tell me.

 

[Rebels57]

Fletcher's nephew to the rescue!!!!

Of course it's 100% the previous administration that caused this. Schmuckles has NEVER made a bad trade or bad free agent signing. The team is what is because 100% Hextall. How are those Chuck picks working for the club right now? Oh that's right, none of Chuck's first rounders are even on the team, one second river he made has a blown out hip, another is smart enough to stay away Sweden and the other 2nd rounder can't even crack a lower league team in Finland. But yes, Hextall was the problem.....

Let's go Fletcher's nephews!!!!!

Once again, as long as people keep responding, the posts like that will keep coming.

Why do so many not seem to understand this?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I mean, every young player we had was an asset. And every draft pick.

I was fine with the moves he made his first off-season, and I still think they were the right moves at the time. But it all went downhill from there. Ellis was bad luck, but Ristolainen was bad scouting/evaluation and most of his depth moves have been pointless at best.

They weren't assets. They sucked, and we're paying for it.

Again, you are blaming Chuck for not fixing the problem. Fine, but he didn't cause the problem.

Risto and Yandle were Chuck's bad moves. But is that why they're in this situation? No.

 

[ajgoal]

Once again, as long as people keep responding, the posts like that will keep coming.

Why do so many not seem to understand this?

What posts?

 

[Rebels57]

You can get "physical" players who are good at hockey. That is a thing. They just didn't.

They failed at acquiring NHL level talent. They failed to develop talent from within their org. They failed every single possible measurement. That's why it's so unceasingly boring to have these conversations. There isn't even a positive to have a back and forth or a glimmer of hope. Failure defines them from top to bottom.

Chuck Fletcher is 3 weeks short of 4 years on the job. They're worse off in every major bucket than the day he took over. The excuses are pathetic. Yes, Hextall failed in the end. So did Holmgren. So does everybody. That's how the cycle works.

And yet..

 

[deadhead]

Yes, they were.

And you would be hard-pressed to find another GM that would translate that mandate to win into Deslauriers, MacEwen, Ristolainen, Thompson, Grant, Stewart, Yandle, Anisimov, Bellows, Jones, as players a GM feels is solid supporting depth.

It's not about the mandate. It's about the execution.

On that point, there is no other conclusion supported by facts that Fletcher has unequivocally failed.

Now that's apples and oranges and plums.

Risto is in his own category "what were you thinking."

Thompson and Grant reflected the short comes of a 20 year old Frost and AHL player Bunnaman. Just as flawed but experienced.
Yandle was AV's pet.

Stewart, Anisimov are bodies. In the "who gives a crap" column.

Bellows is a waiver wire "look see." Former 1st rd pick, maybe we can salvage something.

Jones is pretty typical for a veteran backup goalie.

The problem was until Sedlak, they failed to find any gems among the coal slag. And he's a former Torts player - the question is what are the pro scouts doing, if they can't identify veteran players worth acquiring at low cost.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

What else? Going with Morgan Frost like most of this board wanted?

Duchene, who made it clear he wanted Nashville?

Brock Nelson, who I supported (to the mockery of a well-known poster here) but who re-signed in Long Island?

Or tanking, which wasn't an option?

Please, tell me.

You're doing that thing again where you misrepresent what people have said because that's the only way to defend this franchise.

I don't know what the options were, I am not the General Manager of the Flyers so I am not privy to that type of information. Every single player in the entire league is available for the right price. It's up to him to be creative enough to come up with something. We know that Chuck isn't creative in the slightest when it comes to roster building. That falls on him.

 

[Rebels57]

You're doing that thing again where you misrepresent what people have said because that's the only way to defend this franchise.

I don't know what the options were, I am not the General Manager of the Flyers so I am not privy to that type of information. Every single player in the entire league is available for the right price. It's up to him to be creative enough to come up with something. We know that Chuck isn't creative in the slightest when it comes to roster building. That falls on him.

I can't imagine why when it works every time...

 

[Curufinwe]

There's no hiding from being .502 and falling over a four year period.

Four years is an incredibly long time in hockey. Fletcher is on his fifth and final coach already:

Hak
Gordon
AV
Yeo
Torts

This was the lineup in the last game played before Fletcher was hired. Only 6 guys are left:

Philadelphia Flyers - Pittsburgh Penguins - Dec 1, 2018 | NHL.com

NHL Gamecenter - Philadelphia Flyers vs. Pittsburgh Penguins, Dec 1, 2018 - summary, stats, boxscore, play by play, recap and more.

www.nhl.com

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
JVR-Patrick-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-Konecny
Lindblom-Lehtera-Weise
(Weal)

Provorov-MacDonald
Hagg-Ghost
Sanheim-Gudas
(Folin)

Stolarz

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Now that's apples and oranges and plums.

Risto is in his own category "what were you thinking."

Thompson and Grant reflected the short comes of a 20 year old Frost and AHL player Bunnaman. Just as flawed but experienced.
Yandle was AV's pet.

Stewart, Anisimov are bodies. In the "who gives a crap" column.

Bellows is a waiver wire "look see." Former 1st rd pick, maybe we can salvage something.

Jones is pretty typical for a veteran backup goalie.

The problem was until Sedlak, they failed to find any gems among the coal slag.

AV bothered Fletcher every day for him to call up Frost. Fletcher instead gave him Grant and Thompson.

Yandle was the Flyers' pet, not just AV. You're absolving Fletcher and the Flyers' part in the whole ordeal and that's disingenuous.

Why is it so hard for you to say "hey, maybe this guy has done a shitty job."

 

[Rebels57]

AV bothered Fletcher every day for him to call up Frost. Fletcher instead gave him Grant and Thompson.

Yandle was the Flyers' pet, not just AV. You're absolving Fletcher and the Flyers' part in the whole ordeal and that's disingenuous.

Why is it so hard for you to say "hey, maybe this guy has done a shitty job."

You really don't know the answer to this?

 

[ajgoal]

I can't imagine why when it works every time...

He's baiting you.

 

[TCTC]

There's no hiding from being .502 and falling over a four year period.

Four years is an incredibly long time in hockey. Fletcher is on his fifth and final coach already:

Hak
Gordon
AV
Yeo
Torts

Tbf, only AV and Torts are real coaches he hired. The others were Hextall guys or interim coaches. But two coaches is enough for one GM. If you don't get it right with your second coach, the problem isn't the coach.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're doing that thing again where you misrepresent what people have said because that's the only way to defend this franchise.

I don't know what the options were, I am not the General Manager of the Flyers so I am not privy to that type of information. Every single player in the entire league is available for the right price. It's up to him to be creative enough to come up with something. We know that Chuck isn't creative in the slightest when it comes to roster building. That falls on him.

I didn't misrepresent a damn thing. You said Chuck had options other than Hayes. I asked what they were.

Then you say, "I don't know what the options were."

So don't make the assertion to begin with.

 

[Curufinwe]

He did also hire Yeo.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I didn't misrepresent a damn thing. You said Chuck had options other than Hayes. I asked what they were.

Then you say, "I don't know what the options were."

So don't make the assertion to begin with.

Yeah, saying that we wanted Frost isn’t misrepresenting things. Get out of here with that.

The options and assertion was that every single player in the NHL is available and that Hayes wasn’t the only option. That’s fact.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Tbf, only AV and Torts are real coaches he hired. The others were Hextall guys or interim coaches. But two coaches is enough for one GM. If you don't get it right with your second coach, the problem isn't the coach.

Yeah, that's a real BS statement saying Chuck has had 5 coaches. And his 2nd one is 19 games in. And I think will prove his best decision.

 

[flyersnorth]

Now that's apples and oranges and plums.

Risto is in his own category "what were you thinking."

Thompson and Grant reflected the short comes of a 20 year old Frost and AHL player Bunnaman. Just as flawed but experienced.
Yandle was AV's pet.

Stewart, Anisimov are bodies. In the "who gives a crap" column.

Bellows is a waiver wire "look see." Former 1st rd pick, maybe we can salvage something.

Jones is pretty typical for a veteran backup goalie.

The problem was until Sedlak, they failed to find any gems among the coal slag. And he's a former Torts player - the question is what are the pro scouts doing, if they can't identify veteran players worth acquiring at low cost.

I'm not sure what you are arguing here.

I'm not interested in reasons at this point. Everything can be justified. All 32 GMs can certainly throw up some justification for moves made or not made.

It is the outcomes that matter.

The Flyers have had increasingly poor outcomes.

Fletcher is the singular person responsible for making the final decision on a move or a non-move.

His decision-making has led us here.

"Here" is a failed state.

 

[TCTC]

He did also hire Yeo.

As an assistant. He was part of the AV coaching staff. That season with Yeo as interim was lost anyway.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The sample gets larger - last nine games:

Seeler CF 51.96%, xGF 59.15%
Braun CF 51.93%, xGF 57.61%
Risto CF 45.46%, xGF 53.22%
Sanheim CF 50.37%, xGF 51.82%

MacEwen CF 53.89%, xGF 54.31%
Cates CF 53.87%, xGF 53.08%
Laczynski CF 50.73%, xGF 50.66%
Frost CF 46.51%, xGF 45.22%
Farabee CF 44.03%, xGF 44.91%
Tippett CF 47.85%, xGF 43.92%

I'll again point out the weird phenomenon where on a Torts team, higher xGF doesn't translate to production.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They weren't assets. They sucked, and we're paying for it.

Again, you are blaming Chuck for not fixing the problem. Fine, but he didn't cause the problem.

Risto and Yandle were Chuck's bad moves. But is that why they're in this situation? No.

He has caused the problem. Hextall is a sports eternity ago. This entire roster and prospect pool and cap situation, and all of its problems, are entirely Fletcher's making at this point.

 

[Striiker]

I know of a very easy and obvious alternative to giving Hayes that horrific contract.

I won’t even say “do nothing” or repeat what @Hollywood Cannon said and suggest doing his job and looking elsewhere to find a better player, which are both clearly better options.

You just move Giroux back to center.

He was/is still perfectly capable of playing C at a high level, is inarguably a far better player than Hayes, costs you nothing in addition cap space or assets, and it’s also easier to then find a replacement for wing either inside or outside the org.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

When Chuck Fletcher was hired, Joel Embiid had played ~120 regular season games. Maikel Franco was a consistent 20+ HR guy. Dallas Goedert had 221 career receiving yards.

 

[Curufinwe]

As an assistant. He was part of the AV coaching staff. That season with Yeo as interim was lost anyway.

Having to fire AV before his contract ended was always a possibility, so the GM doesn't get a pass for hiring Yeo as the assistant who would take over if AV and his muppet friend had to be sent packing.

He could have hired a young coach with potential. He didn't have to give a job to his has-been buddy.

 

[deadhead]

There's no hiding from being .502 and falling over a four year period.

Four years is an incredibly long time in hockey. Fletcher is on his fifth and final coach already:

Hak
Gordon
AV
Yeo
Torts

This was the lineup in the last game played before Fletcher was hired. Only 6 guys are left:

Philadelphia Flyers - Pittsburgh Penguins - Dec 1, 2018 | NHL.com

NHL Gamecenter - Philadelphia Flyers vs. Pittsburgh Penguins, Dec 1, 2018 - summary, stats, boxscore, play by play, recap and more.

www.nhl.com

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
JVR-Patrick-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-Konecny
Lindblom-Lehtera-Weise
(Weal)

Provorov-MacDonald
Hagg-Ghost
Sanheim-Gudas
(Folin)

Stolarz

And what that shows is the crap he was handed by Holmgren and told to produce a winner.

G is the only top 6 forward, Ghost is a 3rd pair D-man (xGFrel -1.05 on the worst D-group in the league, i.e., he's as bad as the rest).
Voracek was horrible in CBJ before he went on IR. Lindblom, 20g, 0-3 3 at ES. Hagg, 3rd pair in Detroit. Simmonds on waivers.
Patrick, Raffl, Weise, Lehtera, AMac out of the NHL.

The only one playing above his Philly days is Gudas at 32 on the second pair in FLA.

Fletcher didn't give Voracek or JVR the contracts that ruined their trade value.

This isn't a defense of Fletcher, just recognition that he's merely continued the erratic pattern established by Holmgren after the Carter/Richards trades - "he didn't start the bonfire" - it's an organizational problem.