2022/23 Roster Thread XIII: Where the 13th Floor Has Been Located

[Hollywood Cannon]

The team that Fletcher inherited very well may have been shit but at the time of his arrival it was not yet known as shit.

That again falls on him for failing to recognize it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The team that Fletcher inherited very well may have been shit but at the time of his arrival it was not yet known as shit.

That again falls on him for failing to recognize it.

Exactly. He should have leveraged things while they had value into better things. Improved the team. Not failed in every respect.

 

[deadhead]

The team that Fletcher inherited very well may have been shit but at the time of his arrival it was not yet known as shit.

That again falls on him for failing to recognize it.

Didn't matter if he recognized it, if Scott/Holmgren insisted on winning now, he was tasked with making chicken salad out of chicken shit.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Didn't matter if he recognized it, if Scott/Holmgren insisted on winning now, he was tasked with making chicken salad out of chicken shit.

So, if Clarke and Scott demanded what you proclaimed (Homer isn't the overlord), then he shouldn't have steadily made the team worse on every count, huh?

Being told to make the team better to compete doesn't excuse making it worse in every single respect. Being given a mandate to win doesn't work as an excuse. He failed, badly.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Didn't matter if he recognized it, if Scott/Holmgren insisted on winning now, he was tasked with making chicken salad out of chicken shit.

It does matter and you know this but… ok.

 

[deadhead]

He took over a team that was shit, and the team is still shit.
Of all the players he inherited, the only one he traded/let walk of any value got value back.
The others, meh.

The problem is he didn't lose enough to draft high (that win now mandate) and had few assets that he could have sold, even had he been allowed to start a rebuild. Ghost had no trade value, nor did Voracek and JVR with their contracts. So Laughton was about it as far as players over 25 years old.

Fletcher didn't make any good moves, but outside of Risto, nothing bad either. Just 4 years of meh, which meant after 5 years of Hextall, 2018 was no better than 2013, and after 4 years of Fletcher, 2022 is no better than 2018 (once injuries are factored in).

So a decade of spinning their wheels, 3 PO appearances, but not a single young elite player added, Hart, TK, Farabee and Sanheim are the best of a decade of draft picks.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Thankfully though, the shit he inherited he’s made sure to re-sign at every possibility instead of exploring trade value.

Who’s next to board the Flyers generous gravy train. Tippet? Hart?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

"Fletcher didn't make any good moves, but" is one of the funniest damn things I've ever read. I get that there's nuance involved, but if that's part of a defense of his tenure, it might be time to reconsider.

 

[deadhead]

"Fletcher didn't make any good moves, but" is one of the funniest damn things I've ever read. I get that there's nuance involved, but if that's part of a defense of his tenure, it might be time to reconsider.

Simply illustrating that the reign of mediocrity goes back a decade.

I mean Hextall basically made two moves of significance, getting a good return for Coburn and for the corpse of Kimmo.
After that, he mailed it in. Filppula and JVR being his major moves.

Fletcher basically had one good summer where he delivered what he was told to do, a playoff team.
Apres PO, le deluge.

I'm not interested in defending Fletcher, I just don't think he's the primary culprit, just the stooge set up to take the fall.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He took over a team that was shit, and the team is still shit.
Of all the players he inherited, the only one he traded/let walk of any value got value back.
The others, meh.

The problem is he didn't lose enough to draft high (that win now mandate) and had few assets that he could have sold, even had he been allowed to start a rebuild. Ghost had no trade value, nor did Voracek and JVR with their contracts. So Laughton was about it as far as players over 25 years old.

Fletcher didn't make any good moves, but outside of Risto, nothing bad either. Just 4 years of meh, which meant after 5 years of Hextall, 2018 was no better than 2013, and after 4 years of Fletcher, 2022 is no better than 2018 (once injuries are factored in).

So a decade of spinning their wheels, 3 PO appearances, but not a single young elite player added, Hart, TK, Farabee and Sanheim are the best of a decade of draft picks.

Let's say the team was shit.

Fletcher made it worse.


Hell, let's say the team now is the same level of shit it was in 2018 even though it isn't. Then that's 4 years of failing to move quality upwards.

No matter how generously you slice it, Fletcher has failed. Badly.

 

[Magua]

It’s Hextalls fault that Fletcher took roster on the rise, stripped them of most of their skill, ruined the cap situation, gave away high picks, and has added some of the worst players in the league, resulting in them falling to the bottom of the league while desperately trying to compete.

Fletcher really hasn’t done anything wrong, if you think about it. He’s the victim here.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

“The cupboard is full, there are a tremendous amount of prospects,” Fletcher said. “This year we have nine draft picks, we have an extra third and an extra seventh. We have cap space and we have good players. There’s everything here to be successful and that’s our goal and that’s what we’re going to do. It’s set up for success."

 

[deadhead]

Let's say the team was shit.

Fletcher made it worse.


Hell, let's say the team now is the same level of shit it was in 2018 even though it isn't. Then that's 4 years of failing to move quality upwards.

No matter how generously you slice it, Fletcher has failed. Badly.

So did Holmgren and Hextall. See a pattern here?

 

[Beef Invictus]

So did Holmgren and Hextall. See a pattern here?

Yes. We have to fire Clarke and everyone he has ever met. I have openly shouted for this for many years now.

 

[deadhead]

That's why I applauded the hiring of Torts.
He's the first person in the organization to speak the truth to the media since . . .
He's made it clear it's going to be a 4-5 year rebuild, that winning simply isn't the goal right now, that the focus right now is just identify keepers going forward. No playoffs, no "aggressive reload," no, "if not for injuries . . . " talk.

Compare to Fletcher, who tried to hint that they needed more than an "aggressive reload" when he talked about the need for elite players under 25 (and how do you obtain such players? duh) but wasn't willing to contradict his boss.

Before that, even mentioning the word "rebuild" was a good way to get issued a pink slip.

 

[landsbergfan]

When Chuck Fletcher was hired, Joel Embiid had played ~120 regular season games. Maikel Franco was a consistent 20+ HR guy. Dallas Goedert had 221 career receiving yards.

and nobody had heard of Covid 19

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Straight from the horse's mouth:

“The cupboard is full, there are a tremendous amount of prospects,” Fletcher said. “This year we have nine draft picks, we have an extra third and an extra seventh. We have cap space and we have good players. There’s everything here to be successful and that’s our goal and that’s what we’re going to do. It’s set up for success."

Zing...

imagine defending someone who said that vs. where the team is now under his watch..

OUCH....

 

[deadhead]

"People say believe half of what you see, son
And none of what you hear"

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

That's why I applauded the hiring of Torts.
He's the first person in the organization to speak the truth to the media since . . .
He's made it clear it's going to be a 4-5 year rebuild, that winning simply isn't the goal right now, that the focus right now is just identify keepers going forward. No playoffs, no "aggressive reload," no, "if not for injuries . . . " talk.

Compare to Fletcher, who tried to hint that they needed more than an "aggressive reload" when he talked about the need for elite players under 25 (and how do you obtain such players? duh) but wasn't willing to contradict his boss.

Before that, even mentioning the word "rebuild" was a good way to get issued a pink slip.

You should probably listen to yourself and then maybe you’d know this isn’t a rebuild.

You can’t make this shit up that you’d post these less than an hour apart. It’s high class entertainment.

"People say believe half of what you see, son
And none of what you hear"

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Straight from the horse's mouth:

“The cupboard is full, there are a tremendous amount of prospects,” Fletcher said. “This year we have nine draft picks, we have an extra third and an extra seventh. We have cap space and we have good players. There’s everything here to be successful and that’s our goal and that’s what we’re going to do. It’s set up for success."

A certain someone is going to lose their damn mind when they see this. That same person always loses their mind at Grant McCagg’s article too.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's why I applauded the hiring of Torts.
He's the first person in the organization to speak the truth to the media since . . .
He's made it clear it's going to be a 4-5 year rebuild, that winning simply isn't the goal right now, that the focus right now is just identify keepers going forward. No playoffs, no "aggressive reload," no, "if not for injuries . . . " talk.

Compare to Fletcher, who tried to hint that they needed more than an "aggressive reload" when he talked about the need for elite players under 25 (and how do you obtain such players? duh) but wasn't willing to contradict his boss.

Before that, even mentioning the word "rebuild" was a good way to get issued a pink slip.

Nothing at all about how this team works has changed since Tortorella was hired. It's the same as it's always been.

If anything, Fletcher and Tortorella are forming a dinosaur feedback loop. Tortorella couldn't get on board with his last boss trying to push modern ideas.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Nothing at all about how this team works has changed since Tortorella was hired. It's the same as it's always been.

If anything, Fletcher and Tortorella are forming a dinosaur feedback loop. Tortorella couldn't get on board with his last boss trying to push modern ideas.

I'm still trying to find out what kind of team they're trying to build. We keep hearing about how to play the game 'right', but what the 'right' way to play the game? I look at teams like Colorado and Tampa Bay and see players that can skate and handle the puck and don't play a trap/ dump and chase system. Then I watch Boston and I see a physical and skilled team. But I watch the Flyers and I just see a team that's an absolute mess. There's no distinct style they're trying to create. We just hear play hard and grind. That's not an identity, game plan or how to build a team. That's just an excuse for 'we have no f***ing idea what we're doing, so we'll use a bunch of catch phrases to sell it to the masses.'

 

[DancingPanther]

 

[SladeWilson23]

Except they started the process almost a decade ago. They lucked into 2 #1 picks Iwhich are hard to miss), didn't start drafting well until 2016 and like you said, didn't have good management until 2020.

And note there's a timing issue, they could trade for 1sts in 2019 and 2020 b/c veterans with value hit the last year of their contracts.

You don't need a decade to rebuild, but if you don't do it right, it can take a decade (or forever, if you're Buffalo).

The first step is accepting that you are rebuilding, it requires patience, and you have to focus on long-term goals and not settle for quick turnarounds that aren't sustainable.
Flyers had two opportunities, 2012 and 2018, and Holmgren nixed that option both times.

I don't want to make this thread about the Devils because this is a Flyers board.

However I do think bringing up 2012 is misleading because they had a completely different regime. Their owner at the time and our dinosaur HOF GM started to really leave the franchise in a husk. The ownership situation with Vamderbeek was awful and probably is why the whole Kovalchuk fiasco happened. Lou's awful drafting also played a big part in this team going downward.

The current regime has been able to accomplish this team in a matter of 6 years. That's more or less your typical rebuild length. Obviously winning the lottery 3 times and some luck played a huge part in helping this team get to where they are, but remember they also had to deal with some bad luck too losing Parise and Kovalchuk in two consecutive offseasons.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Another hill to die on.

I’ll believe ASF on this one that it was in fact other elements of the Flyers that pushed for the hiring of Torts.

You’ve got a shitty GM to begin with, that’s managed to keep his job by catering to the various factions in Flyers sphere - primarily the old guard/alumni.

He’s a POS that needs to be fired, but this summer was not by the design of Chuck Fletcher. No way in hell. The stench is too familiar.

It’s why he will stay on as president the day they move up Danny. He’s played the country club game perfectly.