2022/23 Roster Thread XIII: Where the 13th Floor Has Been Located

[Beef Invictus]

And what that shows is the crap he was handed by Holmgren and told to produce a winner.

G is the only top 6 forward, Ghost is a 3rd pair D-man (xGFrel -1.05 on the worst D-group in the league, i.e., he's as bad as the rest).
Voracek was horrible in CBJ before he went on IR. Lindblom, 20g, 0-3 3 at ES. Hagg, 3rd pair in Detroit. Simmonds on waivers.
Patrick, Raffl, Weise, Lehtera, AMac out of the NHL.

The only one playing above his Philly days is Gudas at 32 on the second pair in FLA.

Fletcher didn't give Voracek or JVR the contracts that ruined their trade value.

This isn't a defense of Fletcher, just recognition that he's merely continued the erratic pattern established by Holmgren after the Carter/Richards trades - "he didn't start the bonfire" - it's an organizational problem.

He wasn't handed crap. He turned it into crap, though. The team is worse on every single front because of his decisions.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It was shit and I’ve maintained that for you. Be thankful. Incredible sell job.

 

[deadhead]

It takes a village (of idiots) to ruin a franchise.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The irony is that Hextall was right -- they did need to rebuild. He just did a terrible, terrible, terrible job at it.

They are paying for it now.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Is it Chuck's mistakes that have forced a rebuild?

Or is it the lack of a sufficient young core from the supposed prior rebuild?

Your uncle has Signed, drafted, extended or traded for every player on the team hasn't he , healthy or injured ?

 

[deadhead]

The funny thing is Hayes may end up as the replacement for JVR, at the same price, and about the same rate of scoring.
2.44 pp/60 so far, similar to the last two years when he was healthy, and the two seasons before we signed him.

At this point in his career, Hayes is better suited as a sheltered offense first veteran LW, which is exactly what JVR was the last few seasons. He simply can't skate well enough to handle center duties in a Torts' offense.

 

[bennysflyers16]

It takes a village (of idiots) to ruin a franchise.

And two to defend every part of it.

 

[deadhead]

The Flyers were crap when Fletcher took over, and he was hired with the mandate to do the same things they'd been doing since 2012.
Fletcher didn't trade JVR, for L Schenn, or give JVR a 5x7 contract.
Fletcher didn't add players like Lehtera and Filppula and Weise and Manning and VdV.
Fletcher didn't draft Goul in the 3rd rd or Ginning in the 2nd rd or give 3 draft picks to take Ratcliffe.
He made his own set of mistakes, but they were similar to the ones preceding him.

 

[sauce88]

The Flyers were crap when Fletcher took over, and he was hired with the mandate to do the same things they'd been doing since 2012.
Fletcher didn't trade JVR, for L Schenn, or give JVR a 5x7 contract.
Fletcher didn't add players like Lehtera and Filppula and Weise and Manning and VdV.
Fletcher didn't draft Goul in the 3rd rd or Ginning in the 2nd rd or give 3 draft picks to take Ratcliffe.
He made his own set of mistakes, but they were similar to the ones preceding him.

You can point out all those previous bad moves while also saying that Fletcher is a terrible GM. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The irony is that Hextall was right -- they did need to rebuild. He just did a terrible, terrible, terrible job at it.

They are paying for it now.

No, now they're paying for hiring Fletcher. The state of the team now is fully on him, not on a guy last employed here in 2018.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

 

[FlyerNutter]

Those people are out in the sea, in a walnut shell.

 

[Beef Invictus]

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Your uncle has Signed, drafted, extended or traded for every player on the team hasn't he , healthy or injured ?

And?

Chuck didn't solve the problem. He didn't create it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And?

Chuck didn't solve the problem. He didn't create it.

He made every problem worse on the way to creating new terrible problems.

 

[deadhead]

You can point out all those previous bad moves while also saying that Fletcher is a terrible GM. They aren't mutually exclusive.

That was my point.

But the key problem has been the unwillingness to recognize the need to rebuild and commit to it.
They missed two golden opportunities in 2012 and 2018, now they have to do so but have dug a deeper hole by trying to be competitive without the talent to make it work.

A lot of the bad decisions have stemmed from the desire to make the playoffs and hope to get lucky, so they chase veteran patches instead of trying to add long-term value.

But if you're going to rebuild, the most important thing is to be patient, don't deep six the value of the veterans on the roster by rushing a bunch of kids - it's counter productive. Sakic played 6 veterans over 30 years old when his team put up 48 points. Teams simply don't field a dozen players 25 and under at the same time - especially later round picks.

The best we can hope for is to move JVR, Braun and Seeler at the TDL, maybe Sedlak and MacEwen, depending on offers.
Adding a 2nd, 3rd, a couple 4ths would give us a solid draft. We can use LTIR money to take on money at the TDL.
Add a 2024 2nd for JOB by not signing him.
Trade Provorov this summer for a prospect and some draft picks.
And so on.

 

[Striiker]

It’s Hextalls fault that Fletcher took roster on the rise, stripped them of most of their skill, ruined the cap situation, gave away high picks, and has added some of the worst players in the league, resulting in them falling to the bottom of the league while desperately trying to compete.

Fletcher really hasn’t done anything wrong, if you think about it. He’s the victim here.

 

[DancingPanther]

10/10

Copium explained

Those people are out in the sea, in a walnut shell.

I mean when you put it that way a canoe is just a carved up tree

 

[flyerslducks]

There were tons of options. Even minor stop gap ones if he looked around. Fletcher has consistently signed/traded for players prematurely while we saw teams wait for fa/trade options to open. Trocheck was an option, for ex

 

[Rebels57]

He's baiting you.

No one is baiting me - I can't even see the posts because they have been on my Igor Silent for many years...i'm just replying to those replying to them lol

 

[ajgoal]

No one is baiting me - I can't even see the posts because they have been on my Igor Silent for many years...i'm just replying to those replying to them lol

I was talking about HC

 

[flyerslducks]

No one is baiting me - I can't even see the posts because they have been on my Igor Silent for many years...i'm just replying to those replying to them lol

It doesn’t work for me lol idk why

 

[freakydallas13]

Contrarians gonna contrate.

 

[deadhead]

It’s Hextalls fault that Fletcher took roster on the rise, stripped them of most of their skill, ruined the cap situation, gave away high picks, and has added some of the worst players in the league, resulting in them falling to the bottom of the league while desperately trying to compete.

Fletcher really hasn’t done anything wrong, if you think about it. He’s the victim here.

What skill? Ghost no longer plays defense, Voracek has rapidly declined, and that's about it. Lindblom is a shadow of his pre-cancer self, the rest of the 2018-19 Flyers he inherited? Simmonds, Hayes, Gudas, Raffl, Weise, AMac et al?

G is a different matter, if you're rebuilding you have to trade him, and they got market value. No one has shown me a better trade for a rental forward well in his 30s.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It takes a village (of idiots) to ruin a franchise.

Yes we know. We have all said that for years.

The problem is that you pretend to believe it but then you go off on paragraph upon paragraph rants defending Fletcher.