Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I thought he said the opposite, or maybe it was something else I read. Regardless, it seems like that part is up for debate, since the CBA doesn't provide for NMC's being honored in an expansion draft.
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I thought he said the opposite, or maybe it was something else I read. Regardless, it seems like that part is up for debate, since the CBA doesn't provide for NMC's being honored in an expansion draft.
The expansion draft would be after next season and Kempe would therefore be eligible.
it will be an interesting fight between the PA and the NHL and we know how much they like to fight
regulate
Registered User
This is what Friedman said
"NHL hasn't decided on players with NMCs being eligible for expansion draft. But expectation is they will not be available for selection."
"NHL hasn't decided on players with NMCs being eligible for expansion draft. But expectation is they will not be available for selection."
it has been said players in year one or two of NHL experience are not elligable. He would not gain 3 years of experience in 1 year
He'll have completed two years (this year and next year) before the expansion draft and therefore be eligible.
regulate
Registered User
Here are some details for those that missed the information:
From Pierre LeBrun http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/14987657/nhl-gms-preview-potential-expansion-draft-rules
Teams will have the option of either protecting seven forwards, three defensemen and one goalie in total; or go with the option of protecting eight skaters (whether they're defensemen or forwards) and one goalie.
First- and second-year pros -- those are players playing pro hockey at any level -- will be exempt from the expansion draft; the bottom line is that if they are signed and playing pro hockey, they're exempt in their first two years. But if they're entering their third year of pro hockey, they're no longer exempt for the expansion draft. Teams would have to either protect them or expose them.
Unsigned draft picks, think college or European players mostly, are exempt from the expansion draft for two years from their draft year but no longer in Year 3, so teams will have to either rush to sign those guys or simply expose them in the expansion draft.
The total salaries for the players made available by each team in the expansion draft must be at least 25 percent of the previous season's payroll for that team. To which Daly explained: "The other variation that makes this expansion draft different is we would contemplate having some thresholds based on salary to make sure that the expansion club can be competitive based on the ranges we have in the CBA. Teams would have some obligation to expose a level of salary. And in terms of drafting players, teams would have to draft a certain threshold of salary."
Now, what remains undetermined at this juncture is one whale of a wild-card in all this: What happens with all those NHL players with no-movement clauses?
"I don't think it's that complicated, but it's an issue that hasn't been resolved in terms of how we intend to treat that," Daly said. "It's something that we're going to have to have a discussion with the Players' Association."
From Pierre LeBrun http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/14987657/nhl-gms-preview-potential-expansion-draft-rules
Teams will have the option of either protecting seven forwards, three defensemen and one goalie in total; or go with the option of protecting eight skaters (whether they're defensemen or forwards) and one goalie.
First- and second-year pros -- those are players playing pro hockey at any level -- will be exempt from the expansion draft; the bottom line is that if they are signed and playing pro hockey, they're exempt in their first two years. But if they're entering their third year of pro hockey, they're no longer exempt for the expansion draft. Teams would have to either protect them or expose them.
Unsigned draft picks, think college or European players mostly, are exempt from the expansion draft for two years from their draft year but no longer in Year 3, so teams will have to either rush to sign those guys or simply expose them in the expansion draft.
The total salaries for the players made available by each team in the expansion draft must be at least 25 percent of the previous season's payroll for that team. To which Daly explained: "The other variation that makes this expansion draft different is we would contemplate having some thresholds based on salary to make sure that the expansion club can be competitive based on the ranges we have in the CBA. Teams would have some obligation to expose a level of salary. And in terms of drafting players, teams would have to draft a certain threshold of salary."
Now, what remains undetermined at this juncture is one whale of a wild-card in all this: What happens with all those NHL players with no-movement clauses?
"I don't think it's that complicated, but it's an issue that hasn't been resolved in terms of how we intend to treat that," Daly said. "It's something that we're going to have to have a discussion with the Players' Association."
tsanuri
Registered User
It's NMC not NTC. Big difference. I would guess unless it's a full NMC you can be open.
I'm talking about a ton of moves on another team, that by the latest rumors, from some scouts, is going to blow it up this Summer. Even without a trade with LA I expect EDM to make trades.
Their coach is also has a documented man crush on Muzzin.
Not worried about improving EDM as a team. The Kings play a tight style of game. There are a lot of bounces in hockey. Playing a tight style and bounces leads to dropping games against bottom feeders. If EDM improves they will probably take more points away from other teams in the division, then from the Kings. Don't see it as that big of an issue. Plus if it gets Brown off the payroll that really helps the Kings.
Muzzin: He's a fine player, but if you're looking at Doughty/Muzzin/Martinez then drop to Scuderi/McNabb/Forbort/Gravel that's not very good for depth. If you can move Muzzin and end up with something like Doughty/Yandle/Martinez/Schenn/Scuderi that looks a lot better from a depth stand point.
Scuderi: He struggled for 2 different teams, was in the AHL and is now playing 20 mins a night on the top pair. Kings just shut out Hawks/Stars(Doughty/Kinger goals). The defensive style the Kings play may not require a Ferrari on the Blue line to be successful. If moving a Ferrari gets you a fleet of mid-sized sedans that might be better for the team. Kings are running a Pinto 20 mins a night out there. (Sorry Scuderi)
Back to WPG: If Trouba was coming back for Muzzin (WPG has Buff/Myers/Trouba RHD) that would go a long way to sorting out the cap issues for WPG.
Money coming back. Sure the Kings might have to take Fayne at 3.6 back from EDM. RHD, not top pairing guy as he's currently being used. Replace Greene/Schenn.
Cap at $74M that might save Brown's job.
(and Muzzin's) 
Expansion: NHLPA is not happy with the idea of guys with NTC/NMC's being subject to being moved in an expansion draft. This item has yet to be decided. Brown's 7 team NTC could prevent him from being moved in an expansion draft.
regulate
Registered User
I understand the difference, but do you really see the NHLPA giving into the league and voiding limited NTC's? I kinda doubt it. Unless the NHL gives something back in return. Of course, adding teams means more jobs. We'll see, but I would be surprised if the contract terms were arbitrarily changed for existing contracts.
Kingsfan1
Registered User
Cap gurus, so if the cap goes up to 74 million for next season, how does our cap look ? This should help us keep Lucic right ? And possibly add a defenseman as well ?
tsanuri
Registered User
It pro experience not NHL.
So if his time in Sweden counts he would have to be protected.
If it doesn't then we could get into splitting hairs. His 3rd year wouldn't start until July 1st. And the draft would occur before that. Meaning he would still be in his 2nd year.
And the season would be over, meaning he finished his second year of experience. I agree we're splitting hairs, but I think my interpretation makes more sense.
tsanuri
Registered User
Here's the argument and it's a very reasonable one. Is he being traded? And he's not. You can be waved, sent to the minors ect with a NTC. But with a NMC you can have any of that done.
By my math, we could re-sign Lucic at $6.5 million, re-sign McNabb at $1.25 million and not have to jettison anyone under contract to get under the cap. That's assuming Greene is still around. Wouldn't be able to re-sign Lewis in all likelihood. Schenn and Versteeg would also be gone.
tsanuri
Registered User
Your contract doesn't end until 12:01 am July 1st. So until such a date you are still in that year of a contract. And I'm sure that all those lawyers that teams pay will argue that until they are blue in the face. And with said person still being under contract they would likely win.
Lucic + Brown would be doable at 74M. Then there would be enough left to bring 1 of Greene/Schenn/Lewis back. Downside is 3C is at around 1M.
Nic Dowd might end up competing with Shore for that. Not ideal of course, but they could probably make it to the trade deadline at least.
regulate
Registered User
Essentially, if there are two expansion teams in 2017-2018, those teams should be able to put together a pretty decent roster. Let's assume all NTC/NMC players will have to be mandatory to protect by their respective clubs. Of course, a lot can change in a year and a half, but based upon today's roster for players that are signed for the 17-18 season, the Kings only have 3 players they have to protect due to NMC/NTC. Those are Quick, Kopitar (obvious) and Brown.
The only other NHL forwards under contract for 17-18 are Gaborik, Carter, Clifford and Nolan. If Gabby's play deteriorates or he keeps getting hurt, they may dangle him to protect and young up and comer like Mersch, Dowd, Kempe etc (hard to say where they will be at that point, but all will be eligible based upon pro time to be subject to expansion draft). Amart and Muzzin are also easy choices right now, but what if Gravel comes up and excels, or McNabb figures out how to play hockey (if they have 17-18 contracts)? That's were the 4 and 4 vs 5 and 3 decision will come into play. Not going to be an easy call, that is for sure. Signing Lucic, if it happens, will also obviously be one that has to be protected. Not an envious position for teams. You could lose up to 2 players.
The only other NHL forwards under contract for 17-18 are Gaborik, Carter, Clifford and Nolan. If Gabby's play deteriorates or he keeps getting hurt, they may dangle him to protect and young up and comer like Mersch, Dowd, Kempe etc (hard to say where they will be at that point, but all will be eligible based upon pro time to be subject to expansion draft). Amart and Muzzin are also easy choices right now, but what if Gravel comes up and excels, or McNabb figures out how to play hockey (if they have 17-18 contracts)? That's were the 4 and 4 vs 5 and 3 decision will come into play. Not going to be an easy call, that is for sure. Signing Lucic, if it happens, will also obviously be one that has to be protected. Not an envious position for teams. You could lose up to 2 players.
One place it could get sticky is the 25% of the roster (cap hit from previous year) has to be offered up. If Brown can not be made available that number may be hard to hit.
I would also expect Kempe/Mersch to be protected as the Kings need the cheap contracts.
I would also expect Kempe/Mersch to be protected as the Kings need the cheap contracts.
Also, being taken in an expansion draft isn't a trade, so a NTC wouldn't apply. It is movement, however, so it would apply to a NMC or at least a full NMC. That's how I think the league will interpret it, anyways. I don't think that honoring NMCs is a huge deal, because really players with those aren't the types that would typically be available.
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/no_trade_list.html
Most of them are franchise type guys, some of them are older guys, and others had their NMC carry over from other teams. Compare it to the NTC list, it's a much different type of player in general. There's also like 200 guys with some type of NTC or limited NMC, that's a ton. There are only 53 active full NMCs according to those list, and almost all of them are no-brainers to protect.
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/no_trade_list.html
Most of them are franchise type guys, some of them are older guys, and others had their NMC carry over from other teams. Compare it to the NTC list, it's a much different type of player in general. There's also like 200 guys with some type of NTC or limited NMC, that's a ton. There are only 53 active full NMCs according to those list, and almost all of them are no-brainers to protect.
One thing to consider is that Brown's contract has a limited no-trade clause, right? Exposing someone to the expansion draft isn't a trade.
Edit: Fishhead beat me to it.
Edit: Fishhead beat me to it.
tsanuri
Registered User
It's worse than cap hit it's payroll. So for example in the next year when Kopitar's new contract hits. He's a 10M cap hit but a 14M payroll hit. So the team would have to use that 14M number not the 10M. Might not sound like a lot to many but that is an extra 1.5M of salary that must be exposed.
Or that is how it was announced. Granted they might make changes and it could be a percentage of cap. But right now that is how I would read it.
I'm guessing the NHLPA will argue for NTC & NMC to be protected. Who knows where the agreement will come out.
If Brown's still making $7M that could come in handy.
That rule is going to need some fixing. A team like the Hawks comes to mind. Lots of high end talent, NTC/NMC's and lots of guys making around $1M. It may be difficult for a team like that to hit the number.
