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2015-2016 Roster Talk: Bottom Six has 0 goals in Infinity Games Edition

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Martyros said:
Does brown have a NTC or NMC? I wonder how that will affect the expansion process, if he's supposed to sign off on being unprotected given that he would be moving….
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It was reported by capgeek back in the day as a NTC that he could list 7-8 teams he couldn't be traded to. So the Kings have a good amount of control. Not like he can pick a very few number of teams to be traded to if that were the option.
 


2:25 says it all. Trade from depth. The kings have no depth at defense. No way is Muzzin getting moved. Trading Muzzin for scoring simply opens up a different hole that needs to be filled. And then we lose his cap friendly contract.
 
Fat Elvis said:
Not too many teams that want to add almost 10 million in contracts, and 5.875 lasting another 6 years, just so you can get Muzzin. I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with that train of thought. Move your #2 and Brown, so you can "hopefully" add a #2. I just see anyone inhouse that can step into that role
IMO, it's easier to move Clifford, Nolan and Greene (5.11) than it'b be to move Brown's (5.875)
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Clifford/Nolan/Green would need to be replaced by 3 roster players. So 5.11-3=2.11M cleared up. Brown at 5.875- 1 roster player = 4.875. Even retaining 2M on Brown you still clear more space then moving 3 of 13/71/2.

? (All of these assume Lewis has priced himself off the team.)
Scuderi/Doughty
Muzzin/Schenn ($3)
McNabb/Gravel
-Brown on team, Shore/Dowd/Andy 3/4C, Assumes Schenn re-ups at $3, if not sub Greene.

or
Scuderi/Doughty
Yandle/Schenn ($3)
McNabb/Martinez
-High 1st to fill 3C position in the next year/2, Kempe/Mersch replace Brown.

or
Scuderi/Doughty
Martinez/Schenn
McNabb/Greene
-leaves $3M to address the 3C.

You could move Martinez instead, but Muzzin will get more of a return.

Scuderi/Doughty
Muzzin/Schenn
McNabb/Greene
-not as flexible when injuries occur. Is the difference in 6/52 and 27/52 enough to justify going after a high first round pick?

There are just a limited number of options. Nothing to do with emotion.
 
Stimpythecat said:


2:25 says it all. Trade from depth. The kings have no depth at defense. No way is Muzzin getting moved. Trading Muzzin for scoring simply opens up a different hole that needs to be filled. And then we lose his cap friendly contract.
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Trade, fill holes, replace with UFA.

-One of Martinez/Muzzin is probably going to be leaving if Brown isn't moved anyways. Losing 1 of 6/27 and keeping Brown the depth on D still looks like ****.
 
Trading Muzzin with Brown to get a few million more cap space which then goes to pay someone like Yandle who is not as good as Muzzin, 2 years older and is an uncertain fit in the locker room and system.

Does not seem like a good move to me.
 
Trolfoli said:
Clifford/Nolan/Green would need to be replaced by 3 roster players. So 5.11-3=2.11M cleared up. Brown at 5.875- 1 roster player = 4.875. Even retaining 2M on Brown you still clear more space then moving 3 of 13/71/2.

? (All of these assume Lewis has priced himself off the team.)
Scuderi/Doughty
Muzzin/Schenn ($3)
McNabb/Gravel
-Brown on team, Shore/Dowd/Andy 3/4C, Assumes Schenn re-ups at $3, if not sub Greene.

or
Scuderi/Doughty
Yandle/Schenn ($3)
McNabb/Martinez
-High 1st to fill 3C position in the next year/2, Kempe/Mersch replace Brown.

or
Scuderi/Doughty
Martinez/Schenn
McNabb/Greene
-leaves $3M to address the 3C.

You could move Martinez instead, but Muzzin will get more of a return.

Scuderi/Doughty
Muzzin/Schenn
McNabb/Greene
-not as flexible when injuries occur. Is the difference in 6/52 and 27/52 enough to justify going after a high first round pick?

There are just a limited number of options. Nothing to do with emotion.
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Why do you keep pretending that replacing Brown is going to be a cheap ELC or something?

To truly "replace" brown, you have to find a player with the flexibility to move up and down the lineup but mostly play on the third. We're talking a 3 million dollar player give or take. Something like Stempniak, but a sure thing, not a camp PTO, unless you're saying "we're not a contender so we can afford tryouts for top-9 spots".

And even then, why do the shakeup for a lateral move?
 
Trolfoli said:
Yandle (6M) < Muzzin (4) + Brown (5.875) : (9.875)

Also with the way the cap is shaping up it's quite possible one of Martinez/Muzzin may be lost if Brown can't be moved. So if you're looking at losing one anyways why not free up the cap space?
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You don't trade your best players for cap space period. Muzzin is out 2nd best defenseman by a mile and only fans would look at this as a fix to move Brown. Thank god for Dean and Co. IN DEAN I TRUST!!!!!!
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Why do you keep pretending that replacing Brown is going to be a cheap ELC or something?

To truly "replace" brown, you have to find a player with the flexibility to move up and down the lineup but mostly play on the third. We're talking a 3 million dollar player give or take. Something like Stempniak, but a sure thing, not a camp PTO, unless you're saying "we're not a contender so we can afford tryouts for top-9 spots".

And even then, why do the shakeup for a lateral move?
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Brown has already been replaced. King is better defensively, bigger, better in the corner and 1 goal behind Brown after missing a lot of time due to a broken foot.

Lewis may also be able to be retained if Brown is moved. He's pretty much passed Brown at this point as well.

It would be a lateral move on D. Which is the point. You swap Muzzin for Yandle (or other UFA/RFA) and in doing so free Brown's cap hit which can be redistributed where the team needs it and maybe add a piece for the future.

go4hockey said:
You don't trade your best players for cap space period. Muzzin is out 2nd best defenseman by a mile and only fans would look at this as a fix to move Brown. Thank god for Dean and Co. IN DEAN I TRUST!!!!!!
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Yeah... just moving Muzzin to get Brown off the books isn't going to be enough. The team will need to get back a piece for the future that will be as valuable as Muzzin. I suspect the Kings are looking at a young high end center to bring along as Kopitar/Carter start to age. It would be nice to start training a replacement so they can learn what Kings hockey is from 11/77. These players tend to go high in the draft. The Kings will have to trade for one.

Now trading Muzzin to dump Brown, add a solid center for the next 10 years to train behind Kopitar, and bring depth to the defense by redistributing Brown's cap hit fixes a lot of issues.

If you're looking to trade a player to dump Brown and not get much back... I'd look at Martinez. See: Schenn + Lecavalier for Weal +3rd.

Edit: incentives for DL
-Free to shift cap space where needed.
-Replace loss with UFA,
-Zacha 2.0... Lombardi was excited about trying to go after Zacha... may find another guy he thinks is a King.
-Documented Man Crush on Yandle.
 
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How do you make this team more competitive next year?

-Move Brown.

-How do you move Brown?

-What pieces can you afford to bring in if you have cap space? Trade? UFA? RFA?

-What's the best team you can put down on paper and how do you get there?
 
I don't subscribe to the view of trading #2's who know the system well just to unload a bad contract. And to rely on a possible 1st rounder to step right in and contribute in a year is wishful thinking imo. That's the same logic that has Edmonton where they're at. I just don't agree with what you're proposing.
 
To get a good F back from anyone, we have to give up a D. No one wants our F, except for maybe Carter. So, we need to decide if we make no moves at all and go with what we have, or do we trade Muzzin or Martinez to get a F, and then go with Forbort and Gravel. Its a tough call. Me personally, it wouldnt bother me if we play Forbort and Gravel if it means getting some more scoring.
 
I know its only been a few games, but is anyone else a little disappointed with Versteeg? It will probably take him a while to settle and I appreciate him getting involved in the ducks game, but he seems a bit lightweight. Or am i just used to seeing Clifford and co bashing people and not getting muscled off the puck
 
DontgoZiggy said:
I know its only been a few games, but is anyone else a little disappointed with Versteeg? It will probably take him a while to settle and I appreciate him getting involved in the ducks game, but he seems a bit lightweight. Or am i just used to seeing Clifford and co bashing people and not getting muscled off the puck
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What we've got with Versteeg is exactly the tradeoff people wanted.

You bring in a bottom sixer "that can score", you're going to have to deal with his warts-softness, a drop in possession, getting muscled off the puck, risky plays.

Granted he'll still need time to adjust and should contribute offensively soon, but this is exactly what happens when you simply 'remove' players like Brown, Lewis, King from those spots. Theyre underrated in that regard.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
What we've got with Versteeg is exactly the tradeoff people wanted.

You bring in a bottom sixer "that can score", you're going to have to deal with his warts-softness, a drop in possession, getting muscled off the puck, risky plays.

Granted he'll still need time to adjust and should contribute offensively soon, but this is exactly what happens when you simply 'remove' players like Brown, Lewis, King from those spots. Theyre underrated in that regard.
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I agree about Versteeg. I would add he will see more ice time if we're losing the game. Less if we are ahead.
 
Trolfoli said:
Choices
-Lucic walks and position not filled with another top 6 forward. Probably not a playoff team. (see last year)
-Lucic brought back and Brown on books. Probably losing one of Greene/Schenn and one of Martinez/Muzzin with Shore the 3C for the foreseeable future.
-Trade something like Muzzin and Brown as a package. Go for a high 1st (4-7 range), a cheap filler for Brown's spot. Now there's cap space to bring back Greene + Schenn, a high end center prospect (hopefully at NHL level by the end of the year) or let one of Greene/Schenn go and sign a UFA to help mitigate the loss of Muzzin.
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You're stuck in this weird "We have to package Muzzin with Brown" loop, and I don't buy it.
 
Any chance Voynov returns next season ? Thats a question id love to hear Dean comment on. Also hoping Prokhorkun signs again, and becomes our Panarin we need the extra cap space and boy is the kid skilled
 
Kingsfan1 said:
Any chance Voynov returns next season ? Thats a question id love to hear Dean comment on. Also hoping Prokhorkun signs again, and becomes our Panarin we need the extra cap space and boy is the kid skilled
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I think the voynov ship has sailed
 
Kingsfan1 said:
Any chance Voynov returns next season ? Thats a question id love to hear Dean comment on. Also hoping Prokhorkun signs again, and becomes our Panarin we need the extra cap space and boy is the kid skilled
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Don't want that **** face on this team.
 
markisonfire said:
You're stuck in this weird "We have to package Muzzin with Brown" loop, and I don't buy it.
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Don't see how the Kings are competitive with Lucic on a new contract with Brown still on the team.

If you are going to lose some guys anyways due to shuffling, might as well make it worth while and address some needs.

Also as far as the Oilers strategy of throwing guys in to early. The reality of the cap world is that you need guys on ELC contracts who can contribute. The whole trick is to surround them with the support they need to be successful. Picking up a near NHL read player in the draft allows the Kings to roll Shore/Andy most of the year, and then possibly have an upgrade come playoff time. Now having 80% of your top 9 on ELC's isn't a good idea, I'll give you that.
 
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