Value of: your best offer for Evan Bouchard and Ryan McLeod (with a few stipulations)

[iCanada]

C'mon, that's ridiculous, man. Please read every one of my posts in this thread.

That's not asking much.

I've read most of your posts for the last several years.

My original post was accurate. It's ok, you don't like Bouchard. No big deal man, no one has to like every player.

 

[Guffman]

Neil Pionk (50% retention) and a second. Neil has offensive punch (most points earned 5 v 5 as he’s not on PP1), and plays with grit.

I would do it just to get younger and refresh years of control.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Neil Pionk (50% retention) and a second. Neil has offensive punch (most points earned 5 v 5 as he’s not on PP1), and plays with grit.

I would do it just to get younger and refresh years of control.

I know there are well intentioned posters on the Oilers board that are very high on Pionk who repeatedly mention him as a player the Oilers should target on RD... but no way from the Oilers side. That's a bad offer.

Add some prime assets to your proposal and maybe there's a deal we can hammer out.

 

[Bank Shot]

McDavid plays the left side. You look at it from your perspective, not the other teams. It's literally a slanted 1-3-1, where instead of the Dman being in the center of the ice at the blue line, he stands a bit further down closer to the right boards. Because it's tilted, and McDavid plays the QB role.

That said everyone skates around all over the place, but that's the general formation I've seen. No idea what you're talking about.

John Carlson stylistically makes sense for a ceiling comparable I guess. But he is a lot more physical. He fills roles that Bouchard doesn't. That tough outside guy who can make forecheckers feel it and earn their pucks.

Even then, Carlson isn't a super exciting defenseman in 2023. He can play the "punish the forecheckers with physicality" role, so he has that element to add some role and identity to his game.

You're off about where McDavid plays on the PP and you are off about John Carlson.

John Carlson has always been the guy that scouts/fans wished would be more physical. Ask Caps fans if Carlson is a physical presence.

He's not at all.

 

[McJedi]

The Oilers trade away Foegele before not keeping Bouchard.

What will the oilers attach to dump Foegle?

 

[TryamkinPleaseReturn]

Bouchard is only 23, already has 2 seasons of 40+ points, has already played 28 playoff games and is nearly point per game in the playoffs.

I can't think of other teams who have the assets to acquire him who also has the cap space. But that's the problem for the Oilers too because they don't really have cap space for him. Darnell Nurse, who let's generously say is vastly more mistake-prone, and has only 15 playoff points in 47 games... that guy makes over 9m aav, what would Bouchard cost? He is already a much bigger net positive imo, and he is 5 years younger. Again, only 23 y/o. Add that he's a 6'3 RSD... The only asset the Canucks have that would be positionally relevant is Pettersson, but they cannot afford to trade him. No one else would start the conversation. Considering you only need Cs and RD maybe Hronek at 50%, any 5 signed prospects, and next year's unprotected first? Canucks couldn't do that considering how barren the cupboard is, but that might be close to fair value

 

[Scintillating10]

The Oilers have roughly 5.62M in projected cap space, possibly a little more.

The Oilers have enough to sign Bouchard and McLeod but little to no cap space if they do. The Oilers should be capable of running a 22 man roster unless Bouchard and McLeod sign for the maximum rumoured, then the Oilers might face the challenges of running a 21 man roster. The need is to fill out the roster while increasing potential cap space. Hopefully improving the team.

Any offer should include a cap savings measure. Retained salary. Involving a third team. Incorporating a cap dump in the transaction, with an additional cost to the Oilers or team trading for Bouchard or McLeod. If not the Oilers are better off signing Bouchard and McLeod.

The perfect offer includes a top 4 RD and a third-line center going to the Oilers. Players the Oilers would be losing with Bouchard and McLeod. The Oilers should be looking for any and all proven veterans they can fit under the cap. Teams looking for high end young players with further room to develop should look to add Bouchard or McLeod.

The Oilers can add additional picks, players or prospects to accomodate any transaction for either one or both of these players. But the idea is to improve the team, this is not a fire sale. I'm trying to find creative ways to improve the Oilers to push them over the hump, not take on other teams trash and bad contracts. If anything the Oilers will pay to move undesirable contracts in order to accomodate a transaction.

Try to be realistic. Bouchard and McLeod are good young trading chips coming off of successful entry level contracts. Bouchard in particular should be of great interest to any team. Any trade involving Bouchard must improve the Oilers immediately. The Oilers can throw in draft picks, prospects and players if it is possible to upgrade at either RD, third-line center or any position.

Feel free to offer up your opinion on the value of Bouchard and McLeod even if your team and the Oilers do not make good trading partners. If you can make a real offer without fulfilling the above stipulations, go ahead and make it. A deal either works or it doesn't. There will be no consensus and the input should be interesting.

Wish you made offer before draft. Habs been real interested in those two. Using 5th overall as trade bait. Even if you wanted immediate help it had high re-trade value.

 

[BudBundy]

What about his game excites you? He's not a great skater. Not a great defender. Not physical or an outside force. Doesn't really do zone entries with the drop back. Doesn't really impress on the top PP, McDavid drops back near the blue line to get space and the PP runs through him. Bouchard is just kinda there as a back line bumper between McDavid and Drai.

He's got an okay slapper I guess? In an era where teams are throwing 2 men in the middle lane to stop point bombs so everyone walks the line and wrists it these days? Which Bouchard doesn't really do.

I just don't see anything in his game that warrants excitement or a 1st round pick.

You'd have to sell me on the guy, because I watched A LOT of Edmonton this year, and he didn't impress me at all.

How can you claim to have watched a lot of Oiler games, yet you apparently don’t know that Bouchard got ZERO power play time until the trade deadline when Barrie got traded for Ekholm?

 

[EverTheCynic]

How can you claim to have watched a lot of Oiler games, yet you apparently don’t know that Bouchard got ZERO power play time until the trade deadline when Barrie got traded for Ekholm?

My definition of a lot was the end of the season and playoffs when I was out in Alberta.

I don't watch much hockey

 

[BudBundy]

My definition of a lot was the end of the season and playoffs when I was out in Alberta.

I don't watch much hockey

Ok that’s fair enough but then please don’t cite Bouchards pedestrian regular season PP point totals as evidence he’s isn’t a big producer. He simply got no regular season PP minutes. Compare that to post deadline and playoffs, the true picture emerges.

 

[ElPrimeTime]

What will the oilers attach to dump Foegle?

I don't think Foegele needs an asset attached. He has one more year left at 2.75 and is a decent middle 6 winger. Unless Foegele's entire cap hit is needed, he could easily be retained on and traded for a mid round pick or worst case scenario a prospect similar to the JP deal with no intention of re-signing.

 

[North Cole]

I don't think Bouchard is worth to other teams what he is to Edmonton.

When look at Bouchard I see a guy who plays 18 minutes a game. 60% ozone starts. Mans the top PP with McDrai and only put up 13pp points during the season. Nothing stands out with the eye test with him. Not an elite puck mover and skater. Not an elite defender. Not an elite zone entry guy. Not elite at PP QB. I'd have to see his heatmaps, but I just don't see anything to be excited about with the player or how he would fit in another environment.

Edmonton obviously thinks he's a younger better Barrie. That top unit PP QB who is gonna become a 23 minute top pairing all situations guy.

I just don't see that with Bouchard, and wouldn't give up that much for him..

2nd and a prospect maybe? Don't think id give up a 1st for him, barring it being a weak draft or a very late pick.

It should be a unanimous opinion he's a younger better barrie.

 

[GOilers88]

One thing I’ve learned on these boards is that no player on the Oilers is really that valuable because they’re all inflated by getting to play with McDavid.

Any player that signs with the team should be signing for less than they do because all of their value will be attributed to McDrai, and any player that puts up good numbers doesn’t really deserve a raise because all of their value is attributed to McDrai so they aren’t as good as they appear.

 

[super6646]

I’d offer 6 bouchbombs of value

 

[BlueTacos]

The Oilers have roughly 5.62M in projected cap space, possibly a little more.

The Oilers have enough to sign Bouchard and McLeod but little to no cap space if they do. The Oilers should be capable of running a 22 man roster unless Bouchard and McLeod sign for the maximum rumoured, then the Oilers might face the challenges of running a 21 man roster. The need is to fill out the roster while increasing potential cap space. Hopefully improving the team.

Any offer should include a cap savings measure. Retained salary. Involving a third team. Incorporating a cap dump in the transaction, with an additional cost to the Oilers or team trading for Bouchard or McLeod. If not the Oilers are better off signing Bouchard and McLeod.

The perfect offer includes a top 4 RD and a third-line center going to the Oilers. Players the Oilers would be losing with Bouchard and McLeod. The Oilers should be looking for any and all proven veterans they can fit under the cap. Teams looking for high end young players with further room to develop should look to add Bouchard or McLeod.

The Oilers can add additional picks, players or prospects to accomodate any transaction for either one or both of these players. But the idea is to improve the team, this is not a fire sale. I'm trying to find creative ways to improve the Oilers to push them over the hump, not take on other teams trash and bad contracts. If anything the Oilers will pay to move undesirable contracts in order to accomodate a transaction.

Try to be realistic. Bouchard and McLeod are good young trading chips coming off of successful entry level contracts. Bouchard in particular should be of great interest to any team. Any trade involving Bouchard must improve the Oilers immediately. The Oilers can throw in draft picks, prospects and players if it is possible to upgrade at either RD, third-line center or any position.

Feel free to offer up your opinion on the value of Bouchard and McLeod even if your team and the Oilers do not make good trading partners. If you can make a real offer without fulfilling the above stipulations, go ahead and make it. A deal either works or it doesn't. There will be no consensus and the input should be interesting.

Blues wpuld offer 1st 2024 top 10 protected and vrana at 50%

 

[danyhabsfan]

Mcleod for Evans 4th

 

[gach]

Bouchard is a terrific passer from the backend. Efficient and sometimes head spinning breakout passes. Upper echelon all the way. Any posters who have followed the player will back me up on this.

He is an elite passer and has an elite shot on the power play.

Most defenseman are elite passers that's why there in the nhl

 

[GOilers88]

Most defenseman are elite passers that's why there in the nhl

Strongly disagree. There’s plenty of defensemen, and forwards, who by this logic should be elite passers because they’re in the NHL, but that’s just not the case. There’s a reason defensemen who move the puck up ice well are highly coveted, and it’s because not every defenseman can do it well.

 

[gach]

Strongly disagree. There’s plenty of defensemen, and forwards, who by this logic should be elite passers because they’re in the NHL, but that’s just not the case. There’s a reason defensemen who move the puck up ice well are highly coveted, and it’s because not every defenseman can do it well.

The best defenseman are in the nhl and in most cases the reason is they are elite in all parts of the game compared to defenseman in the ahl. That's all in saying and if you have a different opinion so be it

 

[Broberg Speed]

Bouchard is only 23, already has 2 seasons of 40+ points, has already played 28 playoff games and is nearly point per game in the playoffs.

I can't think of other teams who have the assets to acquire him who also has the cap space. But that's the problem for the Oilers too because they don't really have cap space for him. Darnell Nurse, who let's generously say is vastly more mistake-prone, and has only 15 playoff points in 47 games... that guy makes over 9m aav, what would Bouchard cost? He is already a much bigger net positive imo, and he is 5 years younger. Again, only 23 y/o. Add that he's a 6'3 RSD... The only asset the Canucks have that would be positionally relevant is Pettersson, but they cannot afford to trade him. No one else would start the conversation. Considering you only need Cs and RD maybe Hronek at 50%, any 5 signed prospects, and next year's unprotected first? Canucks couldn't do that considering how barren the cupboard is, but that might be close to fair value

The Vancouver Canucks appear to be the most interested. Interdivisional Bouch Bombs would hurt but so far the Canucks are the team in this thread that recognize what type of player Bouchard is and what he projects to be.

I don't think the Canucks would entertain moving Pettersson, that's your 100 point franchise player.

If Bouchard was traded to the Canucks Hronek at 50% would fill a hole. But unless I'm out to lunch a retained Hronek isn't enough.

Hronek could possibly be a moving part in a package. I sure hope he has a great season to increase his league visibility.

I know who Hronek is and I recognize the steep price paid for the player but he's a bit of a mystery to me. He put up some numbers with Detroit but can even Vancouver fans say they know what this player is all about? You guys really paid.

It's hilarious that most of the offers for Bouchard in this thread are for less than what the Canucks paid to acquire the player.

Maybe the Canucks don't have the roster players the Oilers would desire but assets to immediately re-trade makes perfect sense from an Oilercentric point of view. Assets and the cap space that would allow the Oilers to make moves... the finishing touches on the roster.

I was considering packages of prospects, picks and a players. Could Vancouver retain 50% on Boeser? I don't know if that could even work for either team cap wise.

A quick foray over to capfriendly has the Oilers with the 9th most cap available with only two players coming off of entry level contracts left to sign. Those two and maybe another league minimum UFA.

Even with they buyout of OEL Vancouver has their hands tied until they cap dip into LTIR. That's my assumption and stand to be corrected.

Edit: I accidentally also quoted a Canadiens posters comment and subsequently removed it.

 

[bernmeister]

I understand now. Thank you for the input and I'll await a link. You are the second New York Rangers fan in this thread.

There was a Mcleod for Schneider proposal.

I will attempt to copy as a quote in the next post. Howev, if nec, you can find the thread "broberg" currently on the forum and see my post at #40, with a single yea or nay at #41, "deal".

Let's look at this logically.
He has basically slightly declined more neutral tbh.
Has upside but ceiling is definitely less than sky's the limit hope of day 1 when drafted.
Coupla elc yrs burned off, so...
best case scenario he is presently a late 1st ballpark.

IMO he is not as bad as some above have suggested
BUT
while things COULD click overnight, there is reason to be cautious
pay
modestly overpay if in proper currency BUT no more than modestly at most.

NYR are mostly not a fit, with 2, possibly 3 exceptions:
1. setting aside working out cap balance to nth degree at sq 1, IF Trocheck would agree to waive to play top 6 w/McDrai, etc that could work as a base.
But not seeing him doing that since he took a little less to come here. If a young lefty shot D who plays either side, cheap playmaker type, we can add Zac Jones.


2. Other option is something around Lindgren
We need to sell high on him to force younger Robertson + Scanlin to get more mins.
The prob there is I see other deals as better return for NY.


3. So that leaves a large deal for LaF
atm, we should keep w/kid line, which should be promoted to 1st line = mo mins, better results, etc

Howev, if enough profit on the table, Rs should be open to moving.
Any suitor must acknowledge first yr + 3/4 LaF sucked big due to inferior skating and lack of finding chemistry. Skating is now fully par and kid line demonstrates real chemistry. So no to equal value. His upside is emerging as a Steve Vickers type.
If you want him, he commands more than that to give us a reason, and more still if Rs are gambling by taking futures.
And remember, Flames need to add given players want exodus.
Habs say no, but they didn't step up on PLD, so don't be too sure.
There WILL be competitive bids if he goes to market, and Rs will take best return of most assets, but in preferred currency. If a suitor does not have pref cur, ce la vie.


That said:
LaF + Harpur + Jones + Leschsyhyn (2 yrs hair over 766k, can be buried)
for
Broberg + Holloway + McLeod + Lavoie rfa rights + 2024 1sts

4 players for 4 players + a pick

Sure Oil don't want to pay that but that is what it would take

Gives EDM some D replacement, 1 cap dump who might make 4th line, and LaF who is a foundation piece.

Rs gamble, see Broberg as add w/Scanlin + Robertson as we sell high on Lindy.

McLeod was on waivers [or am I confusing him w/his brother?], so expect Oil ok moving on; for NY 4th liner adding speed.

Holloway is righty speed, could work opposite Kreider

Lavoie has done nothing but has phys tools, can take a flyer on him

+ late pick

something like that

Deal

 

[SupremeTeam16]

What will the oilers attach to dump Foegle?

Probably the same they had to attach to dump a more expensive Jesse Puljujarvi

 

[Broberg Speed]

I will attempt to copy as a quote in the next post. Howev, if nec, you can find the thread "broberg" currently on the forum and see my post at #40, with a single yea or nay at #41, "deal".

Interesting. Broberg is one of the Oilers prospects that's actually worth something. He's going to be an big NHL defenseman who can skate.

Broberg is a work in process. Most of the hf crowd want to use him as trade bait. The player is one of the better positional defensemen in the Oilers organization. He needs a better coach so he can take the next step to realize his potential.

The Oilers are coached for offense. Full stop. Positionally strong defensemen and defensively aware players in general at any position isn't a thing the Oilers do.

I can't see them winning a cup with Woodcroft's coaching. It's bad, he needs to be fired.

 

[EverTheCynic]

Bouchard is only 23, already has 2 seasons of 40+ points, has already played 28 playoff games and is nearly point per game in the playoffs.

I can't think of other teams who have the assets to acquire him who also has the cap space. But that's the problem for the Oilers too because they don't really have cap space for him. Darnell Nurse, who let's generously say is vastly more mistake-prone, and has only 15 playoff points in 47 games... that guy makes over 9m aav, what would Bouchard cost? He is already a much bigger net positive imo, and he is 5 years younger. Again, only 23 y/o. Add that he's a 6'3 RSD... The only asset the Canucks have that would be positionally relevant is Pettersson, but they cannot afford to trade him. No one else would start the conversation. Considering you only need Cs and RD maybe Hronek at 50%, any 5 signed prospects, and next year's unprotected first? Canucks couldn't do that considering how barren the cupboard is, but that might be close to fair value

Why do you think this means anything? He's playing on the best PP in the history of hockey with the 2 best players in the world.

He's not going to be in that spot on any other team. Any other team needs to look at the player and ask themselves, "Ok, what does Bouchard do on my team? What role is he playing? And what is that worth?"

He's not a good skater. So he's probably not filling that #1 or #3 spot on any team, because it's 2023 and teams expect those guys in that role to be highly mobile

But he's also not good defensively nor physical. So he probably isn't a #2 or #4 on any team either.

So he doesn't really fit any role or check any box. Every team has a guy who can QB the PP, but also can play top line minutes because of their mobility.

Nobody is excited about his toolset or what he brings to the table. Throwing out numbers from a unique situation is literally meaningless unless those numbers are a result of something he's bringing to the table.

Nobody even halfway rational and unbiased would say Edmonton's PP is being pushed by Bouchard.

He's not that good. He's worth a 2nd+. It's 2023 and he can't skate, and he also can't defend.

He's in a perfect spot in Edmonton. It's kind of working, at least offensively and in particular on the PP.

Just keep him. Nobody wants to give up a 1st for him.

 

[Mackiaveli]

The need is to fill out the roster while increasing potential cap space. Hopefully improving the team.

Bouchard and Foegele for Anderson (1m retained), Mailloux, Flames 1st