Value of: your best offer for Evan Bouchard and Ryan McLeod (with a few stipulations)

Broberg Speed

Registered User
Oct 23, 2020
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Nylander for both
The player for players value is perfectly acceptable but the Oilers could never afford to sign Nylander.

You guys should receive a haul for Nylander but the Oilers couldn't manage his future contract without a load of cap moving the other direction.
 

MarkovsKnee

Global Moderator
Nov 21, 2007
55,120
69,688
Toronto
They should be able to sign both. They currently have $5.62m available.

Miller just signed for $3.872m x 2. Sergachev's bridge was $4.8m x 3. Bouchard should come in at mid-point of those 2 on a bridge, say $4.3m x 2 years.

That leaves only $1.32m, but capfriendly includes Niemalainen's cap. Team will have to be 20 players only. He gets waived adding $762,500 to cap.

Now at $2.0825.

McLeod gets one year at $1m.

Leaves $1.0825m for cap space.

If Bouchard holds out for $5m or more then Oilers are in trouble.
 

Broberg Speed

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Oct 23, 2020
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They should be able to sign both. They currently have $5.62m available.

Miller just signed for $3.872m x 2. Sergachev's bridge was $4.8m x 3. Bouchard should come in at mid-point of those 2 on a bridge, say $4.3m x 2 years.

That leaves only $1.32m, but capfriendly includes Niemalainen's cap. Team will have to be 20 players only. He gets waived adding $762,500 to cap.

Now at $2.0825.

McLeod gets one year at $1m.

Leaves $1.0825m for cap space.

If Bouchard holds out for $5m or more then Oilers are in trouble.
To be perfectly honest the Oilers could use versions of Miller or Sergachev. That type of player but who play RD. Although Sergachev and Miller have a lot of experience. So does Bouchard.

The Oilers will have an incredible power play without Bouchard. A team looking to upgrade their power play in a major way, or looking for a high powered offensive defenseman should be looking for a player like Bouchard.

The Oilers need the right mix of player to reach the next level. That will take some major sacrifices acquiring those types of players.

McLeod won't accept 1M.
 
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Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
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Waterloo Ontario
I don't think Bouchard is worth to other teams what he is to Edmonton.

When look at Bouchard I see a guy who plays 18 minutes a game. 60% ozone starts. Mans the top PP with McDrai and only put up 13pp points during the season. Nothing stands out with the eye test with him. Not an elite puck mover and skater. Not an elite defender. Not an elite zone entry guy. Not elite at PP QB. I'd have to see his heatmaps, but I just don't see anything to be excited about with the player or how he would fit in another environment.

Edmonton obviously thinks he's a younger better Barrie. That top unit PP QB who is gonna become a 23 minute top pairing all situations guy.

I just don't see that with Bouchard, and wouldn't give up that much for him..

2nd and a prospect maybe? Don't think id give up a 1st for him, barring it being a weak draft or a very late pick.
The 13 points on the pp number is rather misleading. Barrie was the guy on the first pp unit until he was traded. Bouchard had 8 pp points in 21 regular season games after that trade and 15 in 12 games in the playoffs. That's 23 pp points in 33 games as the point man on the pp and the Oilers don't even run their pp through the defenseman.

You are correct that he is not a great skater or defender. But he has a lot of elite offensive skills and is an excellent outlet man.
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

Registered User
Apr 29, 2018
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As a hab fan I would be interested in Bouchard, but the best they could offer is Barron and a 1st.

Could trade Evans, too as the 3rd line centre, but all that does is improve their faceoffs and be less everywhere else.
 

Kaibur

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
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Phoenix, AZ
From AZ: Travis Boyd + Liam O'Brien + EDM '24 3rd for McLeod + Lavoie + EDM '24 5th

Coyotes get younger players and can provide opportunity.

Oilers get more mature players with cheap cap hits.
 
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Roof Daddy

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Apr 1, 2008
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I would prefer to just keep both, but if we’re trying to go all in I’d try this…..

Trade 1:

To PHI: Bouchard, 2nd 2024

To EDM: Konecny (50% retained)

Trade 2:

To NSH: McLeod, 2025 3rd

To EDM: Barrie (50% retained)

Trade 3:

To CAR: Ceci, Broberg, 2024 1st

To EDM: Pesce

Kane-McDavid-Konecny
Holloway-Drai-Hyman
Foegele-Nuge-Brown
Janmark-Ryan-Lavoie?

Nurse-Pesce
Ekholm-Barrie
Kulak-VD
 

DJJones

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Nov 18, 2014
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Just give him a one year bridge deal then let him man the pp all year.

He'd take any lowball they offer
 

Broberg Speed

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Oct 23, 2020
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As a hab fan I would be interested in Bouchard, but the best they could offer is Barron and a 1st.

Could trade Evans, too as the 3rd line centre, but all that does is improve their faceoffs and be less everywhere else.
That needs to be an unprotected 1st. Barron doesn't hold much interest for the Oilers. Trade Barron to a third party and include that pick in your offer to the Edmonton Oilers.

I do believe the Canadiens are moving in the right direction and doing a beauty job of a rebuild. You guys might make the playoffs and maybe that pick isn't so good.

The Oilers would be looking to move that first immediately, and if that pick isn't protected that might hold some real value to an interested third party team.

There is a deal to be made between the Habs and Oilers. But you will have to increase that offer significantly. Subtract Barron and add a couple of second rounders and another mid-round pick and we are in business.

Bouchard for Montreal's unprotected 1st, two second rounders, and a 3rd.

That is an outstanding deal for the Habs.

The Oilers could shop those picks for players and cap relief.
 
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ChaoticOrange

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Jun 29, 2008
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giphy.gif
Because OP hates every Oiler under 25 except Broberg for god knows what reason.

Nothing we'd bring back for those players would make trading them worth it.
 

Three On Zero

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I don't think Bouchard is worth to other teams what he is to Edmonton.

When look at Bouchard I see a guy who plays 18 minutes a game. 60% ozone starts. Mans the top PP with McDrai and only put up 13pp points during the season. Nothing stands out with the eye test with him. Not an elite puck mover and skater. Not an elite defender. Not an elite zone entry guy. Not elite at PP QB. I'd have to see his heatmaps, but I just don't see anything to be excited about with the player or how he would fit in another environment.

Edmonton obviously thinks he's a younger better Barrie. That top unit PP QB who is gonna become a 23 minute top pairing all situations guy.

I just don't see that with Bouchard, and wouldn't give up that much for him..

2nd and a prospect maybe? Don't think id give up a 1st for him, barring it being a weak draft or a very late pick.
Bouchard as he is now likely gets a middle to late 1st + B prospect. Has offensive potential while being poor in the defensive end
 

ChaoticOrange

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Jun 29, 2008
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From AZ: Travis Boyd + Liam O'Brien + EDM '24 3rd for McLeod + Lavoie + EDM '24 5th

Coyotes get younger players and can provide opportunity.

Oilers get more mature players with cheap cap hits.
hard pass. Boyd is a 20-25 point player anywhere else, because nowhere else would play him 16+ minutes a night. Heck McLeod almost matched his production from the third line playing 25 less games and two and a half less minutes.

Value wise, McLeod is worth more than Boyd and Lavoie is worth more than O'Brien. a 3rd to a 5th doesn't come close to bridging the gap.
 
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Broberg Speed

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Because OP hates every Oiler under 25 except Broberg for god knows what reason.

Nothing we'd bring back for those players would make trading them worth it.
If you would read before jumping to conclusions you would see I would be willing to add Broberg as a throw in to make the cap work on any deal that would make the Oilers a more playoff ready team.
 

Three On Zero

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So far it's been post after post detailing how bad of a hockey player Evan Bouchard is and not one single trade proposal has arisen for the player.

Do I overvalue Bouchard or am I missing something?
His value to Edmonton is currently higher than what he would fetch in a trade. He has potential, but currently doesn't excel in any areas of the game. Not the kind of player you trade away before he reaches his potential
 

Broberg Speed

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Oct 23, 2020
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His value to Edmonton is currently higher than what he would fetch in a trade. He has potential, but currently doesn't excel in any areas of the game. Not the kind of player you trade away before he reaches his potential
How can this be? Even if Bouchard's value is the highest to the Edmonton Oilers how much higher could that value be than to the rest of the teams in the NHL?

This sentiment doesn't make much sense at all. It's a little funny, don't you agree?
 
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CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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Please note, OP claims to like Bouchard but has been constantly saying we need to trade him and simply can’t win with him and like, most of his posts the past 2 months have talked about how important is that we trade him asap.
 

ChaoticOrange

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Jun 29, 2008
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Edmonton
If you would read before jumping to conclusions you would see I would be willing to add Broberg as a throw in to make the cap work on any deal that would make the Oilers a more playoff ready team.
Broberg's cap hit is so negligible it wouldn't make sense to have him as a throw in anywhere. That's one of the biggest problems with your continued crusade to try to dump useful young NHLers off a cliff. Nobody "established" coming back is going to make less than they will this coming season. Established 3C's make significantly in excess of 2 million. Frankly 2 is on the low end. Even low end top 4 defencemen make well in excess of 4 million. Holland shot his feet to the floor with a nailgun with the Nurse and Campbell contracts, which makes keeping fairly compensated, contibuting younger players like Bouchard and McLeod more important, not less.
 
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Nostradumbass

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Jan 1, 2007
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I don't think Bouchard is worth to other teams what he is to Edmonton.

When look at Bouchard I see a guy who plays 18 minutes a game. 60% ozone starts. Mans the top PP with McDrai and only put up 13pp points during the season. Nothing stands out with the eye test with him. Not an elite puck mover and skater. Not an elite defender. Not an elite zone entry guy. Not elite at PP QB. I'd have to see his heatmaps, but I just don't see anything to be excited about with the player or how he would fit in another environment.

Edmonton obviously thinks he's a younger better Barrie. That top unit PP QB who is gonna become a 23 minute top pairing all situations guy.

I just don't see that with Bouchard, and wouldn't give up that much for him..

2nd and a prospect maybe? Don't think id give up a 1st for him, barring it being a weak draft or a very late pick.
I see you have never seen Bouchard play a single game in the NHL.
 
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malcb33

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Apr 10, 2005
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New Zealand
Bouchard for Montreal's unprotected 1st, two second rounders, and a 3rd.

That is an outstanding deal for the Habs.
While I like Bouchard, if I'm Montreal, there's no chance I give up that much for him directly after drafting Reinbacher.

RHD isn't a dire need for Montreal anymore, and they're still a few seasons away from finishing their rebuild. That unprotected 1st could be a very high pick (not to mention the additional 2 x 2nds) and I don't it would be wise to send that much draft capital on another RHD, with other more pressing needs, even if he is a good one.
 

Broberg Speed

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Oct 23, 2020
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Please note, OP claims to like Bouchard but has been constantly saying we need to trade him and simply can’t win with him and like, most of his posts the past 2 months have talked about how important is that we trade him asap.
This is undeniably false. I've traced Bouchard's trajectory from before the Oilers drafted the player.

Bouchard is a fine player but I believe the Oilers could find a less offensively talented player who is a stronger defensive player who is still efficient at moving the puck. Sacrifice some offense, which the Oilers possess in spades, for some stronger defense. You have to give to receive.

This would help the Oilers go further into the playoffs with the end goal of winning the Stanley Cup.

The Oilers are in a comfortable position yet they need to be willing to tinker with some meaningful positional needs.

Good players out and good players in. Simply different types of players who play different styles with different positional roles to fulfill.

That includes a different type of defenseman in the top 4 and a reliable defensively oriented third-line center.
While I like Bouchard, if I'm Montreal, there's no chance I give up that much for him directly after drafting Reinbacher.

RHD isn't a dire need for Montreal anymore, and they're still a few seasons away from finishing their rebuild. That unprotected 1st could be a very high pick (not to mention the additional 2 x 2nds) and I don't it would be wise to send that much draft capital on another RHD, with other more pressing needs, even if he is a good one.
You only have six defensemen playing on any given night.

You better make them as good as possible if you want to start making the postseason on a regular basis in the ultra-competitive Atlantic Division. Bouchard definitely helps you get there.
 
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ChaoticOrange

Registered User
Jun 29, 2008
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Edmonton
Worth noting as well that if Edmonton trades Bouchard, they have zero in terms of PPQB on the roster. Dismiss Bouchard all you like as just a cog in the machine, the powerplay was vastly better with Bouchard on it than anyone else, and we need Nurse and Ekholm on the PK and 5 on 5. Trading Bouchard for a "more defensive" defenceman doesn't solve any problems.

It's Ceci that needs to be upgraded.
 

malcb33

Registered User
Apr 10, 2005
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New Zealand
You better make them as good as possible if you want to start making the postseason on a regular basis in the ultra-competitive Atlantic Division. Bouchard definitely helps you get there.
I'm very confident Montreal's goal is not to make the playoffs next year at the cost of spending their best picks for the next year's draft. Montreal is far more likely to be in the bottom 10 of the league standings than push for a playoff spot by design.

Hypothetically, even if Montreal was pushing for a playoff spot next year, RHD still wouldn't be the area they need to improve on the most, so why spend a significant amount of draft capital in this area, right after drafting a very promising RHD?
 
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Broberg Speed

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Oct 23, 2020
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Worth noting as well that if Edmonton trades Bouchard, they have zero in terms of PPQB on the roster. Dismiss Bouchard all you like as just a cog in the machine, the powerplay was vastly better with Bouchard on it than anyone else, and we need Nurse and Ekholm on the PK and 5 on 5. Trading Bouchard for a "more defensive" defenceman doesn't solve any problems.

It's Ceci that needs to be upgraded.
Nurse has played on the pp successfully before and Ekholm is a hell of a player in his own right.

Play Nurse on the power play and he scores 50+ points easily with the Edmonton Oilers and resembles a 9M dollar hockey player.

Nurse scored 43 points with no first unit power play time. He would blow past 50 points. Maybe 60 points. Ekholm likewise finds great success on the Oilers power play.
I'm very confident Montreal's goal is not to make the playoffs next year at the cost of spending their best picks for the next year's draft. Montreal is far more likely to be in the bottom 10 of the league standings than push for a playoff spot by design.

Hypothetically, even if Montreal was pushing for a playoff spot next year, RHD still wouldn't be the area they need to improve on the most, so why spend a significant amount of draft capital in this area, right after drafting a very promising RHD?
You think more poorly of Montreal's chances than I do. Either that or you are one hard-ass negotiator. Which one is it?
 

Kaibur

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
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Phoenix, AZ
hard pass. Boyd is a 20-25 point player anywhere else, because nowhere else would play him 16+ minutes a night. Heck McLeod almost matched his production from the third line playing 25 less games and two and a half less minutes.

Value wise, McLeod is worth more than Boyd and Lavoie is worth more than O'Brien. a 3rd to a 5th doesn't come close to bridging the gap.
I agree that Boyd would and should play lower down the depth chart. He only played as much as he did out of necessity to buy development time for Hayton and McBain. But he's at the price point the Oilers would like for McLeod this year and I think he'd produce about the same as McLeod did last year so that they could fit Bouchard.

I guess I think that it wouldn't be that crazy for someone to throw a 2 yr/$2.15M offer sheet at McLeod and pay a 3rd for him. And would it be that crazy for Lavoie to be put on waivers if the Oilers run a short bench? LOB is a dirt cheap replacement that plays a heavy game and maybe replaces some of the toughness lost from trading Kostin until the trade deadline.

That was my thinking, but I get that it doesn't fully alleviate the cap issues either.

The move is probably to trade Foegele for whatever he can return with no cap coming back.
 

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