Windsor Spitfires 2019 Offseason Thread (Part 3)

[aresknights]

You'll have to be more specific.

Check the previous post of mine. I was very specific.
You gushed over the deal for a vet/tough D last year. Gushed over a vet F who you said would add leadership n grit a couple years ago. He didn't finish the season.
You have supported "Fraser" types deals for the Spits in the past was all.
Frasca was a player drafted with what pick?
The above players were acquired with what picks...... Similar value deals you loved when they happened

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Don't take what I said as applauding it, but more "he did what you guys wanted... so what else do you want?" People wanted accountability. That's been said numerous times. It's happened. That's all. Are people going to be annoyed either way? Sure. Sometimes it's justified, other times not as much.

Doing what fans wanted doesn't necessarily mean moving a couple 2nd rounders for a player who was a 5th round pick 15 months ago. I think most fans here understand the meaning of value and moving high picks for a player who hasn't done much to date doesn't correlate to value. The value is where you're banking on him outperforming what you gave up. For example what would you say if Joe Blow GM decided to move a 3rd and 4th rounder for Robinson on the Spits. What would you say about that GM???

 

[OHLTG]

Check the previous post of mine. I was very specific.
You gushed over the deal for a vet/tough D last year. Gushed over a vet F who you said would add leadership n grit a couple years ago. He didn't finish the season.
You have supported "Fraser" types deals for the Spits in the past was all.
Frasca was a player drafted with what pick?
The above players were acquired with what picks...... Similar value deals you loved when they happened

Oh, I got what you're saying.

I liked the Allen deal because I had been a fan of Allen's for a long time. It was for a 5th rounder. I liked Baird's deal, which was also for a pick (4th, I believe), but he didn't pan out. It's different if the deal is for a current player, as opposed to a pick, as Frasca has already produced a bit in the OHL.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

But taking accountability for a mistake and making another mistake is what i think people talking about here. Can’t say oh i screwed up on not taking Maggio in 4th and then go out and give up 2 2nd rounders and us be ok with it. If he didn’t make the deal and just said i messed up not drafting him then it looks a lot better then what he did

What Rychel is saying is akin to putting a band-aid on a bullet hole. It's not surprising but overall the narrative of trust the GM with this franchise is long gone. At some point the emperor has no clothes. Rychel believes a guy like Maggio can out perform the likes of Frasca/Playfair(assistant captain who Rychel raved about) and anyone else he wants to move out. Maybe this is Rychel's last hurrah putting a team together before he bolts but he won't make it easy on the new GM with an empty cupboard.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Spitfires look to correct error by bringing Tecumseh's Maggio home in deal with 67's | Windsor Star

I wonder if the Savage’s had a hand in this...

Judging from the article and how Savage was swooning over the local boy factor.

“People who will come out and watch it because it’s a local kid who’s made it to this level of hockey,” Savage said. “From our perspective, having that element is a very import part of who we are. This is a community team.”

Didn't we just witness a local goaltender and the attendance dwindle?? I hope they truly don't believe what they say in regards to that. There's so much more that goes into whether a fan goes to the arena than the local player factor. Savage and Rychel are really pushing the envelope on how great all these moves are when we will be able to see some time in late November and early December for us to see what this team is all about.

 

[OHLTG]

Do I think we'll see an extra thousand just because of a local kid? No. Does having a local kid help in attendance, over the long haul? It certainly can. I don't know if you can get a specific total on how many people DiPietro brought in, but having a well-known local player didn't hurt the Spits at all. He was out in the community, people knew him, he had his fans, and that's a big deal to this team. Maggio could become similar. It'll take a lot to get to DiPietro's level, and I don't think anyone really expects that, but his name is big around town and having him on the team can't hurt attendance at all.

 

[KyGuy9]

Don’t agree that Warren made a mistake, he is making admission so to deflect this trade as part of a 2 part trade
19 other teams agreed with Warren on not drafting him in the Top 4 rounds
Spits were better off the 2 draft picks

I disagree with that. Whether Warren actually feels he made a mistake or not, and whether a trade for Maggio was even made or not, not taking him is absolutely a mistake on his part. He could have had Maggio already with a mid-pick and had a 2-part deal with the high picks used to add another high-potential player like an Alec Belanger or Cam Tolnai. There was no need to ever have a 2-part trade specifically with Maggio.

I wouldn't hold other teams as responsible for missing on him like WR as he had the advantage of Maggio being a local kid right in his backyard and thus should have had him scouted numerous times. It's well known that rounds 10-15 of the draft are the "Family and friends" round so going to games just for that would allow for additional viewings on him.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I disagree with that. Whether Warren actually feels he made a mistake or not, and whether a trade for Maggio was even made or not, not taking him is absolutely a mistake on his part. He could have had Maggio already with a mid-pick and had a 2-part deal with the high picks used to add another high-potential player like an Alec Belanger or Cam Tolnai. There was no need to ever have a 2-part trade specifically with Maggio.

I wouldn't hold other teams as responsible for missing on him like WR as he had the advantage of Maggio being a local kid right in his backyard and thus should have had him scouted numerous times. It's well known that rounds 10-15 of the draft are the "Family and friends" round so going to games just for that would allow for additional viewings on him.

I guess this means Hayes McKay who was selected 8-9 picks before Maggio will probably not make the team? Considering Rychel said it was a mistake not to select Maggio earlier......

 

[windsor7]

I don't think it's a matter of over-valuing Frasca, but getting insurance in case he reaches his potential. There's a two-year age gap so wouldn't you want some mild value two make up for that and any additional production he might bring?

Way - over valuing

 

[windsor7]

Oh, I got what you're saying.

I liked the Allen deal because I had been a fan of Allen's for a long time. It was for a 5th rounder. I liked Baird's deal, which was also for a pick (4th, I believe), but he didn't pan out. It's different if the deal is for a current player, as opposed to a pick, as Frasca has already produced a bit in the OHL.

Best to just rip the bandaid off.
He not getting the time needed here.
Coaching staff wont let him.
Too stuck in their bad ways.
Trade pick for pick.

 

[windsor7]

Do I think we'll see an extra thousand just because of a local kid? No. Does having a local kid help in attendance, over the long haul? It certainly can. I don't know if you can get a specific total on how many people DiPietro brought in, but having a well-known local player didn't hurt the Spits at all. He was out in the community, people knew him, he had his fans, and that's a big deal to this team. Maggio could become similar. It'll take a lot to get to DiPietro's level, and I don't think anyone really expects that, but his name is big around town and having him on the team can't hurt attendance at all.

A extra 10 maybe 15 fans will just fill a row at the arena.
U will still have many many many empty seats everywhere else at least for this season Lol

 

[PuckStop75]

The trade builds on an already strong 02 group, and gets a player that may not be available in 6 months or even a year, and if he is at a much higher cost. 19 other teams passed on him before Ottawa picked him, the reasons for doing so could be all over the map and are irrelevant now.
Once a player like this plays a few games and demonstrates their game translates to the OHL level the value goes up dramatically and the draft position means nothing - its history. IMO - Maggio is going to be very good for the Spitfires, he's not going to fill the stands on his own but he could be part of a winning team which will always attract interest.

 

[Teflon]

Guess maybe I start opining on the London board... gee ares I’m not a GM but if I’m moving a kid who has proven he can play with a few years of eligibility left for an OA player I’m gonna ask for a pick back if he ends up being substantially better. Yes there are conditions on many pics in the league. How often do we hear the word conditional??? Often! Over valued? Hardly that’s y it’s called conditional. Spits like to have a local kid on their teams I’m sure savages were a part of the decision to get him. They are putting together a group for a run down the road. It will only get more costly as teams figure out what your up to. I think they paid to much, but there’s a few scouts out there that are really high on him. Guess time will tell. Today’s pick will be very interesting, I’ve heard a player floated that if it happens will make everyone smile.

 

[punch1943]

Guess maybe I start opining on the London board... gee ares I’m not a GM but if I’m moving a kid who has proven he can play with a few years of eligibility left for an OA player I’m gonna ask for a pick back if he ends up being substantially better. Yes there are conditions on many pics in the league. How often do we hear the word conditional??? Often! Over valued? Hardly that’s y it’s called conditional. Spits like to have a local kid on their teams I’m sure savages were a part of the decision to get him. They are putting together a group for a run down the road. It will only get more costly as teams figure out what your up to. I think they paid to much, but there’s a few scouts out there that are really high on him. Guess time will tell. Today’s pick will be very interesting, I’ve heard a player floated that if it happens will make everyone smile.

Woke up this AM to find that the board had gone bonkers. Not really familiar with the Pete D-man who’s name was floated but sounds like my kind of stay at home D-man who can clear the front of the net. Price is another matter. Teams don’t normally give O/A away unless it’s the Spits.
Whoever the Spits get in the Import draft is fine (Sergachev like)
You can bet (take this to the bank) that WR has already made a couple moves last night. When he says he’d like to do something in the paper, it means he already has done it...

 

[member 71782]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this Maggio deal but to me it resembles 2010/11 all over again.

I like that he's here but in 2010/11 the same two GMs were involved in multiple deals that facilitated Missy making a run by acquiring Canton/Shugg, Windsor dealing picks for Ebert, Missy dealing picks for Rychel who was flipped to Windsor for more picks at the deadline which helped Missy in other deals and all that cost Windsor the ability to make a serious run.

Deal DiPietro to help Ottawa make a run at a price many found disappointing, sign the player named in the deal which sends three picks back then deal for a kid at above market value who Windsor likely had their eye on but overplayed the draft and likely wasn't going to be able to get all while probably facilitating a second chance at a run for Ottawa this year since the two players have gone a long ways towards restocking Ottawa's picks.

A mistake not drafting Maggio? I'll give them that, the same type of mistake we saw in the 2010 draft.

 

[member 71782]

A deal for Frasca/Pete's D suggested as proposed? What's the value of each on their own?

One could argue the Pete's D and a pick for Frasca for a couple of years.

One could also Frasca and a pick for the Pete's D and his experience and missing skill set from Windsor's line up

Frasca is going to get buried in Windsor's line up, his value won't be high. He probably brings back a fourth in a stand alone pick deal.

The Pete's D suggested would likely return a fourth when compared to Allen/Shankar if dealt to Windsor as we've already seen that play out twice and Fraser is in a similar mold, slightly better.

Player for player would make sense as there's lots of examples for the individual value of similar players the last few seasons.

Any player similar to the Pete's D would be the same result. If Rychel could get more great but similar players to these two carry the same value to them and each other.

 

[Teflon]

Here I thought frasca was going to Barrie???

 

[OHLTG]

What if... Frasca to Barrie and Boka for OA D? (I read things...)

 

[Montecristo 2]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this Maggio deal but to me it resembles 2010/11 all over again.

I like that he's here but in 2010/11 the same two GMs were involved in multiple deals that facilitated Missy making a run by acquiring Canton/Shugg, Windsor dealing picks for Ebert, Missy dealing picks for Rychel who was flipped to Windsor for more picks at the deadline which helped Missy in other deals and all that cost Windsor the ability to make a serious run.

Deal DiPietro to help Ottawa make a run at a price many found disappointing, sign the player named in the deal which sends three picks back then deal for a kid at above market value who Windsor likely had their eye on but overplayed the draft and likely wasn't going to be able to get all while probably facilitating a second chance at a run for Ottawa this year since the two players have gone a long ways towards restocking Ottawa's picks.

A mistake not drafting Maggio? I'll give them that, the same type of mistake we saw in the 2010 draft.

Maggio deal may involve ownership into the team because of the existing partnership with Savage outside hockey.

Read the Spits press release- Savage mentions real estate deals that they are partners with Maggio.

 

[punch1943]

What if... Frasca to Barrie and Boka for OA D? (I read things...)

I can see Boka or Purboo to a contender for picks or Frasca for a comparable Young D with potential But I’m betting WR does a splashy type deal using Douglas as the keystone piece..

 

[member 71782]

Maggio deal may involve ownership into the team because of the existing partnership with Savage outside hockey.

Read the Spits press release- Savage mentions real estate deals that they are partners with Maggio.

Hard to speculate what is behind this deal but I doubt it would be based solely on business partners doing favours for each other because of non related interests.

I don't know what type of knowledge or experience you have with the running of a business that relies 100% on public support for it's success be it sports, entertainment, restaurants etc.

Any favour that may be done in these situations for outside interests would have to have a direct benefit for the business itself with a cost that provides immediate and future impact in a positive way.

Having grown up around a number of businesses and seeing from the inside how favours you are suggesting can affect the success of a business like this in different areas including family based entertainment, adult related entertainment, restaurants, broadcasting and sports related I've seen what favours done for unqualified persons can do to a business with some recovering from those favours and some not.

This to me looks more like Rychel trying to recover in missing out on a player he valued then simply one business associate doing a favour for another in a non related field. The kid is qualified, he is an OHL talent so the question becomes the cost of the acquisition. If I'm the parent and my kid in on a team that just made a nice long run and is poised to do it again in his time there I would be looking to keep the kid in the successful situation where he would gain more attention instead of bringing him home where this team has had it's struggles as well as a fair bit of anarchy surrounding it this off season. From a parent's perspective the best place for him was Ottawa even though Windsor has a decent reputation they are not currently poised for similar success just yet. To say this in a year or two once Ottawa starts to rebuild and Windsor is poised to make a run then seeing him brought home as a favour, provided he's proved he could be a major part of that success then you would do this type of favour but not at this point. You could even say the cost involved would actually make things detrimental to the potential success of the team and the kid.

So no, I don't think this was a favour to an outside party, simply doing what was required to acquire a piece that was coveted at last years draft.

 

[punch1943]

Spits pick at #14

Windsor

Rafkin, Ruben

6.00

188

2002-01-08

RD

Lincoln Stars

Finnish

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ruben Rafkin - RD
Windsor Spitfires
Selected 14th in Round # 1
Shoots:
R
Height:
6.00
Weight:
188
Hometown:
Turku, Fin
Last Team:
Lincoln Stars
Nationality:
Finnish

 

[LeafsFan18]

Spits select Ruben Rafkin RD from Finland

 

[member 71782]

Already playing in NA so if he doesn't have NCAA aspirations he should be a bit easier to get here and hopefully that has already been nailed down.

OHLTG, another kid from Finland for you.

 

[LeafsFan18]

Article on Rafkin’s current status

16-year-old Ruben Rafkin finding his spot with Storm

Article states he is a University of Denver commit