Windsor Spitfires 2019 Offseason Thread (Part 3)

[OHLTG]

Cole Fraser for Frasca?

I'd imagine it couldn't be straight up. I like what Fraser brings (hard-nosed, tough, reliable), but Frasca could really blossom if given playing time. If it were a deal that involved Fraser + conditional pick, or even a solid higher pick, I'm not against it.

 

[windsor7]

I'd imagine it couldn't be straight up. I like what Fraser brings (hard-nosed, tough, reliable), but Frasca could really blossom if given playing time. If it were a deal that involved Fraser + conditional pick, or even a solid higher pick, I'm not against it.

probably best to just do player for player.

 

[OHLTG]

probably best to just do player for player.

The issue with that is what happens if Frasca really finds his way (say, 30-pt season)? Can you imagine this place if we dealt an OA for Frasca, straight up, and Frasca did well? "We got one year of (whoever) for two or three of Frasca and he's REALLY found his game. Great job, WR. Screwed us!" Nope, get a conditional pick or something there in case.

 

[windsor7]

The issue with that is what happens if Frasca really finds his way (say, 30-pt season)? Can you imagine this place if we dealt an OA for Frasca, straight up, and Frasca did well? "We got one year of (whoever) for two or three of Frasca and he's REALLY found his game. Great job, WR. Screwed us!" Nope, get a conditional pick or something there in case.

Other teams just don't throw picks away like Windsor has in the past.
If Frasca has a great ohl career outside of Windsor, congrats.
Good chance he wont here with this crappy coaching.

 

[OHLTG]

Other teams just don't throw picks away like Windsor has in the past.
If Frasca has a great ohl career outside of Windsor, congrats.
Good chance he wont here with this crappy coaching.

So, if you dealt Frasca for an OA d-man... straight up... and the OA d-man didn't put up points, but Frasca put up 30+ points, you wouldn't say WR got the worst of the deal? Nope. Don't buy it for a second. This place would go crazy.

 

[OHLTG]

According to the Windsor Star - Friday 11am is the deadline for any deals prior to the freeze that goes in effect until August. WR is looking to move a couple of guys out for picks. He also stated that they are keeping Piiroinen so just making the one pick (14th).

 

[KyGuy9]

My point was more that Rychel admitted it was a mistake, which is what people on here have wanted for a while ("accountability!!"). Now that he has done just that, people are still upset. Let the kid play and see what happens. You got what you wanted, no?

I understood what you meant, my thinking is more in the lines of when making a mistake of this extent, it should be a given that accountability is taken, rather than something that should be applauded. Just because he takes accountability for his actions, doesn't mean his actions weren't extremely stupid and something fans shouldn't be upset over. I don't think anyone is saying Maggio isn't a good player but no matter if you have one or one hundred high draft picks, they are not something that should just be thrown around like candy. There's no way to twist it that Maggio producing what he does as a fourth/fifth round pick is better value that what he produces at the cost of two second round picks, and taking accountability for this is not something that should be applauded. Very dumb sequence of events that could have been completely avoided without the cost of two high picks.

 

[windsor7]

So, if you dealt Frasca for an OA d-man... straight up... and the OA d-man didn't put up points, but Frasca put up 30+ points, you wouldn't say WR got the worst of the deal? Nope. Don't buy it for a second. This place would go crazy.

lots of players haven't put up the "points" on Windsor.
He would just be joining the club.

 

[OHLTG]

I understood what you meant, my thinking is more in the lines of when making a mistake of this extent, it should be a given that accountability is taken, rather than something that should be applauded. Just because he takes accountability for his actions, doesn't mean his actions weren't extremely stupid and something fans shouldn't be upset over. I don't think anyone is saying Maggio isn't a good player but no matter if you have one or one hundred high draft picks, they are not something that should just be thrown around like candy. There's no way to twist it that Maggio producing what he does as a fourth/fifth round pick is better value that what he produces at the cost of two second round picks, and taking accountability for this is not something that should be applauded. Very dumb sequence of events that could have been completely avoided without the cost of two high picks.

Don't take what I said as applauding it, but more "he did what you guys wanted... so what else do you want?" People wanted accountability. That's been said numerous times. It's happened. That's all. Are people going to be annoyed either way? Sure. Sometimes it's justified, other times not as much.

 

[windsor7]

Don't take what I said as applauding it, but more "he did what you guys wanted... so what else do you want?" People wanted accountability. That's been said numerous times. It's happened. That's all. Are people going to be annoyed either way? Sure. Sometimes it's justified, other times not as much.

Should of never had to come to this point in drafting him.
No other way to think about it.

 

[SpItFiReZ]

Spitfires look to correct error by bringing Tecumseh's Maggio home in deal with 67's | Windsor Star

I wonder if the Savage’s had a hand in this...

 

[windsor7]

Spitfires look to correct error by bringing Tecumseh's Maggio home in deal with 67's | Windsor Star

I wonder if the Savage’s had a hand in this...

I wouldn't put anything past them. lol

 

[aresknights]

I'd imagine it couldn't be straight up. I like what Fraser brings (hard-nosed, tough, reliable), but Frasca could really blossom if given playing time. If it were a deal that involved Fraser + conditional pick, or even a solid higher pick, I'm not against it.

Fraser seems to be the exact type player you have gushed over the Spits acquiring the last few years. (and probly better than last years vet/tough/leadership D and the year before tough F you lauded that was released soon after, albeit Fraser maybe at a slightly higher cost--- sorta)
If Frasca is going to be buried down the lineup, esp with all the new talent at F you are excited about why not move him for a trade that brings a needed piece back, esp one you always covet. You are over valuing your depth players.
No way should the other side add picks in that deal but hey if ya can get em ok.

 

[OHLTG]

I don't think it's a matter of over-valuing Frasca, but getting insurance in case he reaches his potential. There's a two-year age gap so wouldn't you want some mild value two make up for that and any additional production he might bring?

 

[Teflon]

If frasca goes for Fraser there needs to be a performance based pick in the deal. He’s shown enough to garner that in a trade for an OA player. If his play rises as expected Spits get a pick if not it serviceable for both even up. Why add the blah blah? Tell us how you see it end of story.

 

[OHLTG]

Even if Frasca goes for an OA who's not known for his offence, the point would still stand.

 

[TheGremlin]

Don't take what I said as applauding it, but more "he did what you guys wanted... so what else do you want?" People wanted accountability. That's been said numerous times. It's happened. That's all. Are people going to be annoyed either way? Sure. Sometimes it's justified, other times not as much.

But taking accountability for a mistake and making another mistake is what i think people talking about here. Can’t say oh i screwed up on not taking Maggio in 4th and then go out and give up 2 2nd rounders and us be ok with it. If he didn’t make the deal and just said i messed up not drafting him then it looks a lot better then what he did

 

[Montecristo 2]

I understood what you meant, my thinking is more in the lines of when making a mistake of this extent, it should be a given that accountability is taken, rather than something that should be applauded. Just because he takes accountability for his actions, doesn't mean his actions weren't extremely stupid and something fans shouldn't be upset over. I don't think anyone is saying Maggio isn't a good player but no matter if you have one or one hundred high draft picks, they are not something that should just be thrown around like candy. There's no way to twist it that Maggio producing what he does as a fourth/fifth round pick is better value that what he produces at the cost of two second round picks, and taking accountability for this is not something that should be applauded. Very dumb sequence of events that could have been completely avoided without the cost of two high picks.

Don’t agree that Warren made a mistake, he is making admission so to deflect this trade as part of a 2 part trade
19 other teams agreed with Warren on not drafting him in the Top 4 rounds
Spits were better off the 2 draft picks

 

[OHLTG]

But taking accountability for a mistake and making another mistake is what i think people talking about here. Can’t say oh i screwed up on not taking Maggio in 4th and then go out and give up 2 2nd rounders and us be ok with it. If he didn’t make the deal and just said i messed up not drafting him then it looks a lot better then what he did

Fair, but, the picks part isn't a mistake just yet. It's higher than most here would have offered but may still turn out quite reasonable.

 

[TheGremlin]

Fair, but, the picks part isn't a mistake just yet. It's higher than most here would have offered but may still turn out quite reasonable.

Fair point but if he turns out to be great then you will still go “man it would have been better if he used a 4th and we had those extra 2nds to make another move”

 

[Montecristo 2]

I wouldn't put anything past them. lol

BINGO!

Google search shows a partnership beyond hockey and possibly too close to home! Recent press release mentions real estate which was a self promotion to Spits fans - guess who the real estate partners are?

Doesn’t appear as anything but a 2 part trade in which a partnership outside of hockey and the grandson in that partnership now plays on the team.

Is there a possibility of a side deal between these partners for the Spits now that grandson is on the team?

 

[aresknights]

I don't think it's a matter of over-valuing Frasca, but getting insurance in case he reaches his potential. There's a two-year age gap so wouldn't you want some mild value two make up for that and any additional production he might bring?

Not if the player returning filled a need and the player moving out wasn't going to play much of a role with others acquired and/or others ahead on coaches depth chart.
Just surprised you wouldn't love that deal. You have in the past?

It also creates goodwill ( with players/families/agents/advisors) for the organization to move a kid thats not getting a shot (which will be tough based on last years usage and all the new Fs)

 

[Montecristo 2]

4 draft picks go back to Ottawa-DiPietro Trade

-2 draft picks are returned for signing the Russian
-2 draft picks are traded “today”

 

[OHLTG]

Fair point but if he turns out to be great then you will still go “man it would have been better if he used a 4th and we had those extra 2nds to make another move”

If he's great, I won't care. If he's bad, then I'll hope Rychel can find a second down the line haha

Just surprised you wouldn't love that deal. You have in the past?

You'll have to be more specific.

 

[aresknights]

If frasca goes for Fraser there needs to be a performance based pick in the deal. He’s shown enough to garner that in a trade for an OA player. If his play rises as expected Spits get a pick if not it serviceable for both even up. Why add the blah blah? Tell us how you see it end of story.

How often is a "performance" based pick included in a deal for a player of Frasca's pedigree? ( not a slight on the kid, just what it is as of now)
Just curious if you have an example?
You say he has shown enough to garner that additional "performance" draft pick..... So how would your deal be structured. Honestly curious what parameters you think could be attached. I haven't seen many 30 pt = an additional 5th rd pick
50 pts = an additional 2nd rd pick ect type deals at all let alone for a kid of his pedigree.