Will Ovi breaking Gretzky's goalscoring record change or influence his legacy?

[wetcoast]

Welp 2 tonight. Back on track I guess.

My Canucks are off to a very bad start, no idea on the direction of this team to be honest.

 

[Mulletman]

McDavid is amazing. But his game relies heavily on his speed combined with his hockey sense. Wheels are usually one of the first things to fall off with age historically.

It's not impossible he will hit 2000 points, but that will mean he is having 100+ point seasons well into his 30s

Yeah but mcDavid is so fast that even if he looses some of his speed he's still going to be one of the faster players in the league. Just look at Selanne, super fast when he was young, but even if he lost some speed he was still able to be 8th in scoring at 40 and still lead his team in points at 41. So that's like 15 more years of McDavid being the best player on his team and maybe a few more if he hangs in there trying to win his first cup. The only thing that can derail McDavid is multiple serious injuries at this point.

 

[Mulletman]

Everything besides goal scoring Crosby is better

No, he not better at being durable and delivering huge hits or playing physical! If you lock Ovechkin and Crosby in a cage and make them fight, Crosby would be in serious trouble!

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah but mcDavid is so fast that even if he looses some of his speed he's still going to be one of the faster players in the league. Just look at Selanne, super fast when he was young, but even if he lost some speed he was still able to be 8th in scoring at 40 and still lead his team in points at 41. So that's like 15 more years of McDavid being the best player on his team and maybe a few more if he hangs in there trying to win his first cup. The only thing that can derail McDavid is multiple serious injuries at this point.

2000 points though is a huge hill as McDavid had 697 point in hid first 7 seasons he needs a run of 120-130 point season to build a cushion as unless the rules change he isn't scoring 100 point a season in his late 30s.

No, he not better at being durable and delivering huge hits or playing physical! If you lock Ovechkin and Crosby in a cage and make them fight, Crosby would be in serious trouble!

Sure because the part in bold matters for hockey players eh?

 

[JasonRoseEh]

This thread topic comes up every couple of months on here, for about the past 5 years.

I'll repeat something I've said a few times before: I think Ovechkin's likelihood of scoring 895 RS goals depends on how good the Caps are.

That is, if the Caps are a strong team for the next few years, still making the playoffs handily and in competition, then I think Ovechkin keeps playing for five more seasons or whatever, even if he gets relegated to 2nd-line, 2nd-unit PP duty the final few. In that situation, the chances of his reaching 895 obviously increase.

On the other hand, if the Caps crash and burn this season and management decides to go into 'rebuild' mode -- or even if they don't, but Ovechkin's peers like Backstrom and Oshie retire or sign elsewhere and Ovi's teammates are all 15-20 years younger -- then I think Ovechkin's motivation drops hugely and he probably doesn't stick around long enough to reach the record.

A lot of long-term record chasing is contextual, and has little to do with the player's ability.

Backstrom is done, he'll never come back from the injury/surgery he's having and even if he does it will be entirely short lived. That aside, he has been on the downslide for awhile and last year basically gave them sub top 6 production in the half season he was there. Ovechkin meanwhile had his best season in a decade and was the first half MVP of last season. He's breaking that record man and the players around him don't have a ton to do with it.

He's going to hit 50 again this year and be right close to it and everyone is going to be saying the same stuff next season.

 

[TomppaKoo]

Ovechkin is the best goal scorer that has ever played in NHL. Period.

 

[Peltz]

Gretzky's legacy on the other hand will take a hit too, as he will seem much more human after his record is broken.

Sure bud.

You must love getting quoted to deliberately type this into a post.

 

[The Panther]

Backstrom is done, he'll never come back from the injury/surgery he's having and even if he does it will be entirely short lived. That aside, he has been on the downslide for awhile and last year basically gave them sub top 6 production in the half season he was there. Ovechkin meanwhile had his best season in a decade and was the first half MVP of last season. He's breaking that record man and the players around him don't have a ton to do with it.

He's going to hit 50 again this year and be right close to it and everyone is going to be saying the same stuff next season.

I think you sorta missed my point.

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

Despite the 4 point game, if this year is any indication so far, he's not gonna get there.

 

[PaulD]

I think this is true of everyone who watched Ovechkin play.

But a few generations from now, when there's nobody alive who watched him play, there will be greater weight placed on the numbers and records.

And Gretz will still be known to be number one.

 

[bobholly39]

Ovechkin is the best goal scorer that has ever played in NHL. Period.

He is the greatest, by virtue of being among the best goal scorers ever, but the one who is having the best goalscoring career.

Best goal scorer though? He's in argument of maybe, but for my money Lemieux is #1

 

[wetcoast]

Despite the 4 point game, if this year is any indication so far, he's not gonna get there.

Oh I think that he will get there but people will still insist the 1 game against the Canucks is more indicative of the other 4 games where he basically has played really crappy given his usage.

 

[TomppaKoo]

He is the greatest, by virtue of being among the best goal scorers ever, but the one who is having the best goalscoring career.

Best goal scorer though? He's in argument of maybe, but for my money Lemieux is #1

Lemieux is one of the best and most dominant players ever, but if you compare the D Ovechkin had to face to what Lemieux faced. It is not close. In goal scoring department. It is too bad Mario had all those injuries. Could've been the best forward in history in numbers. Ovechkin has given much more. Mario was a big guy with good hands(Do not flame if I say that Mikko Rantanen looks much like him), but never gave the physicality that Ovechkin does.

 

[saffronleaf]

And Gretz will still be known to be number one.

yes because context will be forgotten

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Will Ovi breaking Gretzky's goal scoring record change or influence his legacy?

Let's say if:
1) Ovi retires immediately & finish his goals total with 780
2) Ovi plays his remaining 4 seasons scoring at least 115 goals breaking Gretzky's record. And retires with 900+ goals.

Will breaking goal scoring record & finishing with 900 goals will change his legacy?

He's already the best goal scorer ever. He's shooting pucks against goalies with .910 to .920 save percentages, which is more than likely in excess of what Gretzky faced. Getting "the number" is just gravy at this point.

 

[PaulD]

yes because context will be forgotten

Or they will marvel at and ask themselves how the hell this Gretzky kid was able to be so far ahead of everyone else ......... and still is ?

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

Ovi isn't looking good this year. Outside of the one game against Canucks.

Or they will marvel at and ask themselves how the hell this Gretzky kid was able to be so far ahead of everyone else ......... and still is ?

Yup. Scoring may have been easier then but there are far more rules now to protect the players from injury. Equipment better now. Nutrition. Etc.

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

"only" 3 goals in 8 games.

I say only cause that's still not bad.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

He is on pace for 30 goals which is respectable for a 37 year old.

2 PPG and 1 ESG. I think this is the year you start to see a shift of him being more of a power play specialist.

Will be interesting to see, probably not this year, if he ever gets moved from the 1st line. Don’t think it happens in the near future because the Capitals don’t have anyone near good enough to replace him coming up or in Washington already.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

He is on pace for 30 goals which is respectable for a 37 year old.

2 PPG and 1 ESG. I think this is the year you start to see a shift of him being more of a power play specialist.

Will be interesting to see, probably not this year, if he ever gets moved from the 1st line. Don’t think it happens in the near future because the Capitals don’t have anyone near good enough to replace him coming up or in Washington already.

He’s hitting posts left and right lately. He rang one of the crossbar and another one off the left post last game.

I think the numbers will normalize a bit, but you are right in the fact that he’s probably 1-2 years away from being a 2nd line winger quality player.

He has a hard time driving the play at ES, although his shot is still deadly.

 

[sr edler]

Despite the 4 point game, if this year is any indication so far, he's not gonna get there.

Those 4 points came against the Canucks too, an absolutely atrocious team defensively at the moment.

I'll say the best WSH players so far this season is their 4th line with Dowd and Hathaway. They have one of the better 4th lines in the league.

Lemieux is one of the best and most dominant players ever, but if you compare the D Ovechkin had to face to what Lemieux faced. It is not close. In goal scoring department. It is too bad Mario had all those injuries. Could've been the best forward in history in numbers. Ovechkin has given much more. Mario was a big guy with good hands(Do not flame if I say that Mikko Rantanen looks much like him), but never gave the physicality that Ovechkin does.

Mario had a versatility to his goal scoring Ovechkin's not even remotely close to. Ask any given hockey fan who they would rather have on a game-deciding breakaway, Mario or Ovi, and not even the most delusional Caps fan would pick Ovechkin while still maintaining a straight face.

The notion that Ovechkin faced tougher Ds is also just a belief system that is impossible to quantity. What is possible to quantity on the other hand is that Mario played in a more physical league where Ds were allowed to water-ski behind star players. There's a famous Mario goal on YT where a Nordiques players commits 4 billion different penalties literally riding rodeo on top of Mario's back from the red line and in. Ovechkin never had to deal with that type of stuff in the post-lockout buttersoft league.

 

[Video Nasty]

Ovechkin has earned the benefit of the doubt to go through an entire season like this before we can draw any real conclusions about how he’ll play from here on out.

I’m not even sure how bad “this” even is realistically.

 

[filinski77]

Mario had a versatility to his goal scoring Ovechkin's not even remotely close to. Ask any given hockey fan who they would rather have on a game-deciding breakaway, Mario or Ovi, and not even the most delusional Caps fan would pick Ovechkin while still maintaining a straight face.

You talk about versatility, then go on to use breakaways (which aren't nearly as common in today's NHL) as your argument for who's a better goalscorer?

Odd.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

With the difference in the size and character of goalie pads and equipment, it is easy to see Ovie is the best goal scorer so far....

 

[BraveCanadian]

You talk about versatility, then go on to use breakaways (which aren't nearly as common in today's NHL) as your argument for who's a better goalscorer?

Odd.

Lemieux had the complete toolkit as a goalscorer.

Elite-level wrister, back hand, snap shot, and slap shot.. combined fantastic accuracy and the softest hands ever on a 6'4 player which gave him the reach to go coast to coast when he was 1-on-1 (or heck, 1-on-any number) or on a break.

Lemieux could score from a one-timer setup on the PP like Ovi-turret, or any other way possible. That is something that has really gone missing in Ovechkin's game as he aged out of his peak. To Ovi's credit though, he keeps putting them in the back of the net year in and year out.