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Will Ovi breaking Gretzky's goalscoring record change or influence his legacy?

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Midnight Judges said:
I don't mention it because it doesn't exist. You are obviously stat watching.
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So this will be the new goalpost switch going forward eh?

He is in obvious decline get used to it.

Randyne said:
Can you show this trend? Ovechkin GPGs
2016-17 =.40
2017-18 =.60
2018-19 =.63
2019-20 =.71
2020-21 =.53
2021-22 =.65
4 years upward trend, then inured bubble season in toughest division, then up again.
Where is a downward trend?
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I've been talking as an overall player and have probably said it a million times his goals are there in part to usage and that usage can hide or delay some things but not his actual level of play.
 
Midnight Judges said:
54 goals and 97 points in his last 84 games.

Seems pretty good to me - especially for a 37 year-old.

If Crosby puts up those kinds of stats at 36-37 you will be starting threads about his greatness.
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Last 86 games, not 84, good for 16th in that time span, Crosby is 20th and has a line of 78-35-60-95 in that time frame and no I won't be starting a thread when he passes Ovi in scoring from the 21-22 season over to this season either but nice try.

But since you bring it up Crosby has been the better overall player and it's not even really close.

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.
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Randyne said:
You were replying to goal scoring post
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If you go back and read the back and forth posts, I'm cl;ear;y talking aobut his overall play and lack of complete elitness since his 3 year peak in his carrer.

A shortened schedule 12-13 and 2 months last season doesn't change his overall trend since his peak and the aging is clearly there but hang onto that goal scoring cause that's all there is.
 
I think it will help, just from a record book perspective. Ovechkin's name will always be up there.

But I think people that know the game will know he wasn't a better player than Gretzky. It is like people know Hank Aaron wasn't a better player than Babe Ruth, or even a better home run hitter, but he had the all-time record. In Ovie's case though I think the fact he is the best goal scorer of all-time will be something he can claim.

There is a lot to see first. There was a time when Aaron Judge was on pace for 70 or so home runs this past season. He had 62. He had some cooling down periods, it happens. Ovechkin could have this too. This is why it might take until the 2025-'26 season for him to do this. It won't happen over the next two years. The absolute earliest is 2024-'25 and that is only if he doesn't get some injuries or decline. He isn't off to a great start this year, so we'll see.
 
wetcoast said:
A shortened schedule 12-13 and 2 months last season doesn't change his overall trend since his peak and the aging is clearly there but hang onto that goal scoring cause that's all there is.
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You are including 2012-13 season with 1.17 PPG, his last entire season was 1.17 PPG also has first season with 1.31, so 6 elite seasons as an elite point producer, and another 6 seasons PPG+, and 3rd all-time harware, and the greatest goalscorer all-time.
It's more than enough to be at least top5 all-time.
 
Randyne said:
You are including 2012-13 season with 1.17 PPG, his last entire season was 1.17 PPG also has first season with 1.31, so 6 elite seasons as an elite point producer, and another 6 seasons PPG+, and 3rd all-time harware, and the greatest goalscorer all-time.
It's more than enough to be at least top5 all-time.
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The 12-13 shortened season with an unbalanced schedule is a bit of a joke though as he beat up a very weak Southeast division with a line of 18-16-13-29 (+10) line and against the other 2 divisions he had a 30-16-11-27 (-8) line.

His first and second seasons add to to his 5 year prime for sure but last season even with his first 2 month aberration it's a stretch to call him an elite player that year.

Heck he isn't even the best player of his generation and it's debatable if he is even a top 5 player since expansion really.

I think people get too hung up on the "best goal scorer" argument then forget it's a complete player or overall argument and then his case really starts to slip.

I mean in 13-14 he led the league in goals and was a PPG player but also had the worst +/- in the league overall and his 5 on 5 play simply hasn't been that great at all after 2010-2011 as he simply tilts the ice very little for a on the surface superstar.

This season he simply hasn't tilted the ice aside from one period against my shitty Canucks team even with an outrageous usage and PP TOI.
 
wetcoast said:
Heck he isn't even the best player of his generation
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Who Sid? He wasn't best multiple times on his own team. About 25% of his points came from Malkin. Sid's production is much lower without him, and grows when Malkin with team. And the opposite: Malkin production significantly higher when Crosby is out.
Overhyped golden boy. And dirty as hell.
 
Randyne said:
Who Sid? He wasn't best multiple times on his own team. About 25% of his points came from Malkin. Sid's production is much lower without him, and grows when Malkin with team. And the opposite: Malkin production significantly higher when Crosby is out.
Overhyped golden boy. And dirty as hell.
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Funny with the Malkin argument as Ovi has more points from Backstrom than Crosby does from Malkin but why ruin a great false narrative with the facts eh?

It's pretty hard to argue that the guy with 3 more points in 166 less games isn't the better player when he also has the better playoff, international and 2 way game as well.

But goals........
 
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wetcoast said:
It's pretty hard to argue that the guy with 3 more points in 166 less games isn't the better player when he also has the better playoff, international and 2 way game as well.

But goals……..
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It's pretty hard to argue that the guy who wasn’t often available to his team when they needed him isn’t the best player, who also has lots of team awards despite always being out scored by his own teammates when it mattered and mythical 2 way game appeared from nowhere coincidently as his production dropped as well.

But the main part of the game…
 
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FrankSidebottom said:
Fixed for you
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Make an argument if you want but don't change a quote then make it look like it's an actual quote FFS it's a really weak and disrespectful thing to do.

I'm going to ask you to edit that quote change but will ask the mods to do so if you don't.
 
wetcoast said:
Make an argument if you want but don't change a quote then make it look like it's an actual quote FFS it's a really weak and disrespectful thing to do.

I'm going to ask you to edit that quote change but will ask the mods to do so if you don't.
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Yeah, that direct quotation was inappropriate, although funny lol
 
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sr edler said:
He's essentially a PP/EN specialist at this point in time. 75% of his goals so far this season either on the PP or in the empty net. Also 4 of the points against Canucks horrid defense. I saw the Caps up 2-0 yesterday against NSH with 3 minutes to go, on the back of their great 4th line, and had to roll my eyes because I knew that Ovi empty net goal was coming.

I think he'll score somewhere around 35–40 goals this season just based on deployment/ice time/PP/EN goals, but he's far from a dynamic presence out there. Can't really blame the guy too much, he's old now and had a long career.
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Any time the Caps are up late and the other team pulls goalie, expect them to get Ovi the puck even if someone else is wide open. Caps have admitted they are going to do what it takes for him.
 
Holymakinaw said:
Who cares what he did last season? This is about him now, and how he does moving forward. He's simply not going to continue to do what he did last season, or any season before that.
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He had 42 goals which was more than in 5 of his previous 17 seasons throughout his career.

How many you predicting for him this season?
 
Big Phil said:
I think it will help, just from a record book perspective. Ovechkin's name will always be up there.

But I think people that know the game will know he wasn't a better player than Gretzky. It is like people know Hank Aaron wasn't a better player than Babe Ruth, or even a better home run hitter, but he had the all-time record. In Ovie's case though I think the fact he is the best goal scorer of all-time will be something he can claim.

There is a lot to see first. There was a time when Aaron Judge was on pace for 70 or so home runs this past season. He had 62. He had some cooling down periods, it happens. Ovechkin could have this too. This is why it might take until the 2025-'26 season for him to do this. It won't happen over the next two years. The absolute earliest is 2024-'25 and that is only if he doesn't get some injuries or decline. He isn't off to a great start this year, so we'll see.
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He needs 73 goals to hit 895 with 3 years left on his contract. (Let's say 24.5 goals a season average)

Age 38, 39 and 40 seasons.

Do you think he gets to 895?
 
BallardEra said:
He needs 73 goals to hit 895 with 3 years left on his contract. (Let's say 24.5 goals a season average)

Age 38, 39 and 40 seasons.

Do you think he gets to 895?
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Pretty sure they keep extending him a year until he gets it.

I don't care what anyone says. Hitting that record all with one team is on a similar level to winning the cup. It's a ridiculous achievement that everyone said would never be done.
 
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nucksflailtogether said:
I don't care what anyone says. Hitting that record all with one team is on a similar level to winning the cup. It's a ridiculous achievement that everyone said would never be done.
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That's a bit of an understatement.....I think scoring the most goals in history is a better "individual" achievement than winning the cup. I suspect a lot of guys, if they had never won the cup, might trade that accomplishment for the cup though.
 
Toby91ca said:
That's a bit of an understatement.....I think scoring the most goals in history is a better "individual" achievement than winning the cup. I suspect a lot of guys, if they had never won the cup, might trade that accomplishment for the cup though.
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Sorry I mean as a fan if I got to see that it’s like winning the cup, obviously different in that it takes place over many years.
 
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