Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Mess]

makes no sense for the player to accept this, won't happen.

Never say never, because it has happened.

Marian Hossa turned down long-term contract offers in the past to take a 1 year deal giving him more flexibility and choice before he joined the Hawks long-term.

However I agree there is no value in Stamkos taking a 1 year deal from Toronto just to take a 8 year deal shortly thereafter with the same team to simply get to 9 years in contract. There is no difference than taking a 7 year deal first and then at the conclusion taking a 2 year deal at the end and it equals 9 years also.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Never say never, because it has happened.

Marian Hossa turned down long-term contract offers in the past to take a 1 year deal giving him more flexibility and choice before he joined the Hawks long-term.

However I agree there is no value in Stamkos taking a 1 year deal from Toronto just to take a 8 year deal shortly thereafter with the same team to simply get to 9 years in contract. There is no difference than taking a 7 year deal first and then at the conclusion taking a 2 year deal at the end and it equals 9 years also.

Hossa took the 1 year deal because he thought he had a chance at the cup with Detroit (just won a cup, lost no pieces and added him)

 

[Mess]

Hossa took the 1 year deal because he thought he had a chance at the cup with Detroit (just won a cup, lost no pieces and added him)

Yup and turned down long-term guaranteed contracts to do it.

However Hossa then changed teams and not resigned with the same team.

So in terms of Stamkos that would be the equivalent of him signing a 1 year big $$ deal with another team (chasing a Cup) & other than TB or Toronto this summer, and then joining the Leafs on a long-term deal thereafter waiting for them to become more competitive first.

Signing a 1 year deal only so he can sign a 8 year deal thereafter really doesn't have any value to Stamkos that signing a 7 year deal and then at its completion signing another 2 year extension when he is in mid 30's.

That said Stamkos is more likely to take a 1 year big money deal with TB if they can't work out a long-term deal and then have another full year to get the long-term one done.

 

[ACC1224]

Yup and turned down long-term guaranteed contracts to do it.

However Hossa then changed teams and not resigned with the same team.

So in terms of Stamkos that would be the equivalent of him signing a 1 year big $$ deal with another team (chasing a Cup) & other than TB or Toronto this summer, and then joining the Leafs on a long-term deal thereafter waiting for them to become more competitive first.

Signing a 1 year deal only so he can sign a 8 year deal thereafter really doesn't have any value to Stamkos that signing a 7 year deal and then at its completion signing another 2 year extension when he is in mid 30's.

That said Stamkos is more likely to take a 1 year big money deal with TB if they can't work out a long-term deal and then have another full year to get the long-term one done.

I'd say that's more likely than signing with the Leafs for a year but that would still be very risky for the Player. It's possible he could cost himself 10's of millions with really not much to gain. Can't see it happening.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'd say that's more likely than signing with the Leafs for a year but that would still be very risky for the Player. It's possible he could cost himself 10's of millions with really not much to gain. Can't see it happening.

Pretty much, it seems very risky to me.

 

[gabeliscious]

Would TB see more value in getting something (ie Phaneuf + ??) in trade for Stamkos instead of having Stamkos leave for TO as a UFA anyways and then get nothing?

You're essentially saying TB would prefer nothing instead of Dion and prefer to use the cap space gained when Stamkos leaves to resign their own players with.

Stamkos holds all the cards and says "trade me to Toronto" to get something as I'm not waiving my NMC for any other team and hope to sign with the Leafs as UFA anyway if I'm not resigned here. What does Stevie Y do?

In addition to the Leaf cap space situation improving to compensate for Stamkos new deal, by trading their current captain Dion in a trade for Stamkos they can then name Stammer their new captain thereafter.

phaneuf despite being a useful player in toronto is still over 30, signed at $7 million and has about 5 years left. it is a pretty serious contract for a team to take on. the whole point in not signing stamkos is that tampa needs cap space to sign their other players. taking on $7 million phaneuf + already having $5 million carle and $5 million garrison is not a great way to manage the cap. they would be better off just paying stamkos $3 million more and having the money on a forward.

also, why would tampa make things easier for toronto to sign stamkos? if toronto signs stamkos it is going to be~17 million locked up longterm in 2 players.

 

[Mess]

I'd say that's more likely than signing with the Leafs for a year but that would still be very risky for the Player. It's possible he could cost himself 10's of millions with really not much to gain. Can't see it happening.

The only reason I said that is that 1 year deal would be because he wants to stay in TB and not interested in leaving or selling his home or playing for another team next year.

His girlfriend is from Tampa and a 1 year deal (while unlikely) is only remotely possible for TB to allow them more time to get their house in order and their contracts all sorted out.

Stamkos already in his young career had a serious injury crashing into a post and breaking his leg. The potential injury risk is far too high that his agent would highly recommend he not take a 1 year deal from anyone.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The only reason I said that is that 1 year deal would be because he wants to stay in TB and not interested in leaving or selling his home or playing for another team next year.

His girlfriend is from Tampa and a 1 year deal (while unlikely) is only remotely possible for TB to allow them more time to get their house in order and their contracts all sorted out.

Stamkos already in his young career had a serious injury crashing into a post and breaking his leg. The potential injury risk is far too high that his agent would highly recommend he not take a 1 year deal from anyone.

The next 2 years is crazy for Tampa with the Triplets, Hedman and Stamkos.

Bishop is likely walking for free too.

 

[Stephen]

The only reason I said that is that 1 year deal would be because he wants to stay in TB and not interested in leaving or selling his home or playing for another team next year.

His girlfriend is from Tampa and a 1 year deal (while unlikely) is only remotely possible for TB to allow them more time to get their house in order and their contracts all sorted out.

Stamkos already in his young career had a serious injury crashing into a post and breaking his leg. The potential injury risk is far too high that his agent would highly recommend he not take a 1 year deal from anyone.

I don't think his girlfriend is from Tampa. That came up somewhere as a difference between him and someone like Lecavalier who put down roots there.

A catastrophic leg injury is a one off, doesn't change the risk of future injury.

 

[Mess]

phaneuf despite being a useful player in toronto is still over 30, signed at $7 million and has about 5 years left. it is a pretty serious contract for a team to take on. the whole point in not signing stamkos is that tampa needs cap space to sign their other players. taking on $7 million phaneuf + already having $5 million carle and $5 million garrison is not a great way to manage the cap. they would be better off just paying stamkos $3 million more and having the money on a forward.

also, why would tampa make things easier for toronto to sign stamkos? if toronto signs stamkos it is going to be~17 million locked up longterm in 2 players.

So if TB knows they are going to lose Stamkos as a UFA they would rather take nothing in trade (future considerations) than Phaneuf, or simply let him walk.

However Phaneuf becomes an asset to TB and the could deal him again. Combine him with Drouin for another trade to get other assets back.

My original point was that there are certain situations where Leafs trading cap player(s) to free cap room for Stamkos is more beneficial than simply signing him for free also.

 

[WTFMAN99]

So if TB knows they are going to lose Stamkos as a UFA they would rather take nothing in trade (future considerations) than Phaneuf, or simply let him walk.

However Phaneuf becomes an asset to TB and the could deal him again. Combine him with Drouin for another trade to get other assets back.

My original point was that there are certain situations where Leafs trading cap player(s) to free cap room for Stamkos is more beneficial than simply signing him for free also.

Tampa would rather lose Stamkos for free then take Phaneuf for an expiring Stamkos 100%

Not an insult to Phaneuf just speaks to the cap difficulties they will be dealing with.

 

[Jerkini]

Stamkos' is in a committed, long term relationship? Finding out where she's from will no doubt lend some insight into where he may want to go at season's end. Anyone know?

 

[Mess]

Tampa would rather lose Stamkos for free then take Phaneuf for an expiring Stamkos 100%

Not an insult to Phaneuf just speaks to the cap difficulties they will be dealing with.

What if Leafs agreed to take Carle (2 years at $5.5 mil) along with Stamkos for Phaneuf and ? .

So instead of 5 more years at $7 mil cap for Dion its cap relief for TB for the first 2. The short term Carle hit while Leafs are not competing would be able to be absorbed.

TB saves $3 mil on the Stamkos deal (instead of $10 mil) they pay Dion $7 and they also get +$5.5 mil (dealing Carle) X 2 years cap relief to get Hedman, Kucherov, Bishop resigned.

Phaneuf + Stamkos @ $10 mil and 2 players for $17 mil also isn't a great situation for Toronto either by signing Stamkos for free.

PS the Horton LTIR money $5.3 mil would allow the Leafs to exceed the hard cap by nearly the Carle amount if they really needed to.

 

[Menzinger]

There's no way Stamkos signs for 1 year anywhere - his agent would rather have the security of being locked in at 11-12 million for 7 years than one year at 14. If he gets rocked with a massive concussion during that 1 deal it would severely lesson the amount he'd be able to ask for when he wants the long term deal.

I also think the Bolts would rather have 7 million in capspace for their RFAs than have it tied up with a declining Dion signed for long term.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What if Leafs agreed to take Carle (2 years at $5.5 mil) along with Stamkos for Phaneuf and ? .

So instead of 5 more years at $7 mil cap for Dion its cap relief for TB for the first 2. The short term Carle hit while Leafs are not competing would be able to be absorbed.

TB saves $3 mil on the Stamkos deal (instead of $10 mil) they pay Dion $7 and they also get +$5.5 mil (dealing Carle) X 2 years cap relief to get Hedman, Kucherov, Bishop resigned.

Phaneuf + Stamkos @ $10 mil and 2 players for $17 mil also isn't a great situation for Toronto either by signing Stamkos for free.

PS the Horton LTIR money $5.3 mil would allow the Leafs to exceed the hard cap by nearly the Carle amount if they really needed to.

I'd rather not take on Carle. He's on the bottom pairing in Tampa simply because of his salary, if he made less he'd likely be scratched.

A lot of people seem to be willing to move heaven and earth for Stamkos...I'm just not there.

Make a contract offer on July 1st, go from there

 

[Jerkini]

Make a contract offer on July 1st, go from there

No kidding. This would be a good choice because the cost is nothing but money. Trading valuable assets to get a headstart is ridiculous and completely nullifies any benefit of that signing.

 

[Mess]

I also think the Bolts would rather have 7 million in capspace for their RFAs than have it tied up with a declining Dion signed for long term.

That's my point exactly but look at from a Leafs perspective where if they sign Stamkos for $10 mil they also have $7 mil in cap space tied up with a declining Dion for the long term which could effect the resigning of their own RFAs Nylander, Rielly, Kadri, Marner down the road in a few years.

While I'm all in favour of adding Stammer, we will also be facing the same problem TB is now only delayed by a few more years.

Some people forget that even signing people for free is not without consequences. TB would rather lose Stamkos for free then take contract back which seems to be the opposite position.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's my point exactly but look at from a Leafs perspective where if they sign Stamkos for $10 mil they also have $7 mil in cap space tied up with a declining Dion for the long term which could effect the resigning of their own RFAs Nylander, Rielly, Kadri, Marner down the road in a few years.

While I'm all in favour of adding Stammer, we will also be facing the same problem TB is now only delayed by a few more years.

Phaneuf will figure to be in the top 4 for the forseeable future. I don't see him dropping to hard. Contract ends at 35?

 

[Jerkini]

That's my point exactly but look at from a Leafs perspective where if they sign Stamkos for $10 mil they also have $7 mil in cap space tied up with a declining Dion for the long term which could effect the resigning of their own RFAs Nylander, Rielly, Kadri, Marner down the road in a few years.

While I'm all in favour of adding Stammer, we will also be facing the same problem TB is now only delayed by a few more years.

Some people forget that even signing people for free is not without consequences. TB would rather lose Stamkos for free then take contract back which seems to be the opposite position.

I'd bet on the sure thing (Steven Stamkos) than worry about what-ifs in 3-5 years.

 

[Menzinger]

That's my point exactly but look at from a Leafs perspective where if they sign Stamkos for $10 mil they also have $7 mil in cap space tied up with a declining Dion for the long term which could effect the resigning of their own RFAs Nylander, Rielly, Kadri, Marner down the road in a few years.

While I'm all in favour of adding Stammer, we will also be facing the same problem TB is now only delayed by a few more years.

Some people forget that even signing people for free is not without consequences. TB would rather lose Stamkos for free then take contract back which seems to be the opposite position.

I agree completely - I've come around to wanting to sign Stamkos but if the Leafs do that, hey will need to move out Dion. Too much salary tied up with just two players, expects once Dion is playing more like a good #3 than a #1.

 

[gabeliscious]

What if Leafs agreed to take Carle (2 years at $5.5 mil) along with Stamkos for Phaneuf and ? .

So instead of 5 more years at $7 mil cap for Dion its cap relief for TB for the first 2. The short term Carle hit while Leafs are not competing would be able to be absorbed.

TB saves $3 mil on the Stamkos deal (instead of $10 mil) they pay Dion $7 and they also get +$5.5 mil (dealing Carle) X 2 years cap relief to get Hedman, Kucherov, Bishop resigned.

Phaneuf + Stamkos @ $10 mil and 2 players for $17 mil also isn't a great situation for Toronto either by signing Stamkos for free.

PS the Horton LTIR money $5.3 mil would allow the Leafs to exceed the hard cap by nearly the Carle amount if they really needed to.

toronto is trying to become a better team. phaneuf + stamkos is better then stamkos + carle.

at the end of the day toronto wont trade assets for stamkos. they just arent in a position to do so. even for his rights imo. if he happens to make it to free agency im sure shannahan/babs/lou will do everything they can to get him to sign here but they arent going to part with assets to get a deal done.

 

[The Legend]

This is the way I look at the tax issue (which is only 6.5% difference).......

Would you leave your family to make 6.5% more? Or would you rather be close to your family and friends and make 6.5% less? (all while having FU money) Again, not that Stamkos is thinking this, but I would be.

I know they got sweet health coverage... but again... me personally, I'd rather pay the 6.5% more than Florida just for health coverage alone. I had my Appendix taken out in NY, during a hockey tourny (was 10yo)......... I was so bad, I needed antibiotics for 2 weeks before they could even remove it... I was in the hospital for almost 3 weeks.

Hospital bill = $52000

I was lucky, the team had some travel/medical insurance, and I only had to pay 20% of that... Well, my parents had too.

Taxes aren't everything, I don't think many players care at all, or players would be flocking to Calgary and Edmonton, who have the lowest tax rates in the NHL. Nobody would want to play for LA and NY, and guess what? Those are 2 of the top teams players WANT to play for.

As someone who has lived in the US and Canada - the health coverage (if you are wealthy and covered) is much quicker in the US, and usually it is fully insured (unless you don't have coverage).

 

[WTFMAN99]

As someone who has lived in the US and Canada - the health coverage (if you are wealthy and covered) is much quicker in the US, and usually it is fully insured (unless you don't have coverage).

Is full coverage insurance common in the U.S. as a benefit with the job or do you need to pay for the insurance? (and is it expensive?)

 

[CupsOverCash]

TB fan coming in peace. I like poking my head in this thread once in a while.

A few questions.

What do you think the Leafs would offer Stamkos if he was to hit the UFA market? What do you guys think he is worth? Do you guys think his value is a little inflated in Toronto just because he is from Toronto?

I ask these questions because in TB he has never been a guy who has taken a game over or never been a guy we all think is going to be a reason the team wins a Stanley Cup. Last year in the playoffs we saw the triplets, Bishop and Hedman all as reasons that the team was in the finals. Stamkos struggled. Before his leg break he was playing for Jon Cooper and looked like he was worth that kind of money.

Are you guys confident that if you signed him he would all the sudden be a guy you could build around? If he were to not live up to his contract how bad would the media and fans rip him up there?

I only ask these questions because I assume if he doesn't end up re-signing in TB that he will go back to Toronto. Based on HF speculation. Just curious because TB fans don't think he is worth more than 10 mil but that is likely to be his contract. Are you fans really hoping this deal gets done?? Or is it just something to be excited about once again in Hockeytown Canada??

 

[WTFMAN99]

TB fan coming in peace. I like poking my head in this thread once in a while.

A few questions.

What do you think the Leafs would offer Stamkos if he was to hit the UFA market? What do you guys think he is worth? Do you guys think his value is a little inflated in Toronto just because he is from Toronto?

I ask these questions because in TB he has never been a guy who has taken a game over or never been a guy we all think is going to be a reason the team wins a Stanley Cup. Last year in the playoffs we saw the triplets, Bishop and Hedman all as reasons that the team was in the finals. Stamkos struggled. Before his leg break he was playing for Jon Cooper and looked like he was worth that kind of money.

Are you guys confident that if you signed him he would all the sudden be a guy you could build around? If he were to not live up to his contract how bad would the media and fans rip him up there?

I only ask these questions because I assume if he doesn't end up re-signing in TB that he will go back to Toronto. Based on HF speculation. Just curious because TB fans don't think he is worth more than 10 mil but that is likely to be his contract. Are you fans really hoping this deal gets done?? Or is it just something to be excited about once again in Hockeytown Canada??

I'd cut it at 9-9.5M for Stamkos, after that I don't think he's accomplished as much as Kopitar, Toews and Kane.

Stamkos at least until recently with Palat moving to his line, hasn't had the other best forwards to play with on the team as the Triplets were inseparable. Flip/Callahan/Killorn are nothing special (no offense) - Drouin started well with Stamkos got but got injured. Namestnikov has broken out this year for you guys though.

The Leafs would give Stamkos the best possible linemates, but it is clear he needs a legitimate playmaker.

I've watched a lot of games this year for Tampa because I consider Stamkos to be a potential future investment for us. He seems to be playing to avoid injury at times - whether that means he wants to cash in big or so that he's around for the playoffs, just feels like he's holding back.