Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[WTFMAN99]

Me too.

Unless like I said.... there is some huge reason he wants out that we are not aware of, which is possible.

Imagine he turned down 9 in TB, and signed for 9 in TO.... ultimate troll job of all time. TB fans would just lose their minds collectively.

Again, HIGHLY doubt it, but if he was signed prior to July 1st, he would have to wave his rights, and at that point, he may as well wait till July 1st, knowing the Leafs want him. I guess it depends how bad the blood is there.... He could wave in an attempt to leave Tampa on a good note, or he could just refuse and wait, and Tampa gets nothing, which is a bit of a dic* move, not that we would care

I know there is more taxes in Canada as opposed to Tampa Bay but his dollar as of right now (US vs Canadian which he would be paid in) more then offsets this.

Potentially more endorsement deals, being closer to family, getting to play centre full time...

 

[Dangles McGavin]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Leafs at least tried to trade for Stamkos. They've shown a sense of urgency when it comes to getting what they want, which I respect. Examples being Babcock and Lou, who we gave up draft picks for. Specifically in the Babs case, where we could've waited a bit.

However, I imagine teams would likely be willing to overpay for a rental Stamkos, and I think Stamkos would be more interested in making a cup run this season.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I can't see any reason why the Leafs would trade for Stamkos now. Well, maybe so they can negotiate early and have the opportunity to sign him for 8 instead of 7 years. But unless the Leafs are able to trade fluff for him, and no way Yzerman is going to get rid of him without getting a few massive pieces back, there's no point in pursuing this option.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Leafs at least tried to trade for Stamkos. They've shown a sense of urgency when it comes to getting what they want, which I respect. Examples being Babcock and Lou, who we gave up draft picks for. Specifically in the Babs case, where we could've waited a bit.

However, I imagine teams would likely be willing to overpay for a rental Stamkos, and I think Stamkos would be more interested in making a cup run this season.

Stamkos is likely to be on the Tampa roster to finish the year, even trading for him before July 1st doesn't allow us to give him the magical 8th year, I think that he has to be part of the organization in December or January but I could be wrong.

I think it might have been Mess who pulled it from the CBA.

 

[ACC1224]

Stamkos is likely to be on the Tampa roster to finish the year, even trading for him before July 1st doesn't allow us to give him the magical 8th year, I think that he has to be part of the organization in December or January but I could be wrong.

I think it might have been Mess who pulled it from the CBA.

Think it's up to the TDL.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I know there is more taxes in Canada as opposed to Tampa Bay but his dollar as of right now (US vs Canadian which he would be paid in) more then offsets this.

Potentially more endorsement deals, being closer to family, getting to play centre full time...

This is the way I look at the tax issue (which is only 6.5% difference).......

Would you leave your family to make 6.5% more? Or would you rather be close to your family and friends and make 6.5% less? (all while having FU money) Again, not that Stamkos is thinking this, but I would be.

I know they got sweet health coverage... but again... me personally, I'd rather pay the 6.5% more than Florida just for health coverage alone. I had my Appendix taken out in NY, during a hockey tourny (was 10yo)......... I was so bad, I needed antibiotics for 2 weeks before they could even remove it... I was in the hospital for almost 3 weeks.

Hospital bill = $52000

I was lucky, the team had some travel/medical insurance, and I only had to pay 20% of that... Well, my parents had too.

Taxes aren't everything, I don't think many players care at all, or players would be flocking to Calgary and Edmonton, who have the lowest tax rates in the NHL. Nobody would want to play for LA and NY, and guess what? Those are 2 of the top teams players WANT to play for.

 

[Mess]

Stamkos is likely to be on the Tampa roster to finish the year, even trading for him before July 1st doesn't allow us to give him the magical 8th year, I think that he has to be part of the organization in December or January but I could be wrong.

I think it might have been Mess who pulled it from the CBA.

Its in the CBA and the trade deadline is the cut-off date.

Its an incentive designed to give the team owning a players rights to be able to outbid other potential UFA suitors.

In Stamkos case 8 years @ $10 mil = $80 mil by TB and 7 years by Leafs at $10 mil = $70 mil. (= +$10 mil more differential)

Because of the extra year TB has the advantage of getting a discount and lower cap hit by using the +1 year.

Example:

TB 8 years @ $9.5 mil = $76 mil verses Leafs 7 years @ $10.85 mil = $76 mil

Leafs would have to give Stamkos +$1.35 mil more salary/year to equal the same $$ to match TB offer. That would effect each teams cap accordingly.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Think it's up to the TDL.

Its in the CBA and the trade deadline is the cut-off date.

Its an incentive designed to give the team owning a players rights to be able to outbid other potential UFA suitors.

In Stamkos case 8 years @ $10 mil = $80 mil by TB and 7 years by Leafs at $10 mil = $70 mil. (= +$10 mil more differential)

Because of the extra year TB has the advantage of getting a discount and lower cap hit by using the +1 year.

Example:

TB 8 years @ $9.5 mil = $76 mil verses Leafs 7 years @ $10.85 mil = $76 mil

Leafs would have to give Stamkos +$1.35 mil more salary/year to equal the same $$ to match TB offer. That would effect each teams cap accordingly.

I stand corrected on this.

I'm not comfortable with going above 9-9.5M for Stamkos on a 7 year deal. People will cite Toews/Kane/Kopitar but they've all won more then he has and the Toews & Kane ones were done when the Canadian dollar looked better.

If we win the Matthews lottery I'm even less inclined to sign him at all, but it's just my opinion.

Trading for him at the deadline isn't even a consideration for a couple of reasons - I don't see him being traded...and I don't see management parting with the assets.

 

[Stephen]

If he doesn't sign by the TDL he doesn't have the option to sign an 8 year deal with anybody, which evens the playing field.

 

[ACC1224]

If he doesn't sign by the TDL he doesn't have the option to sign an 8 year deal with anybody, which evens the playing field.

I thought Tampa could still sign him to 8 years?

 

[Stephen]

I thought Tampa could still sign him to 8 years?

Sorry, my mistake. If he goes to free agency July 1 he's automatically on a 7 year max. deal.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I stand corrected on this.

I'm not comfortable with going above 9-9.5M for Stamkos on a 7 year deal. People will cite Toews/Kane/Kopitar but they've all won more then he has and the Toews & Kane ones were done when the Canadian dollar looked better.

If we win the Matthews lottery I'm even less inclined to sign him at all, but it's just my opinion.

Trading for him at the deadline isn't even a consideration for a couple of reasons - I don't see him being traded...and I don't see management parting with the assets.

On the plus, we will know that soon enough. I agree, if the Leafs won the lotto, they won't think about Stamkos.

However, what if we landed 2nd or 3rd? That might entice the Leafs to go for the Centerman, not sure on that one.

 

[Mess]

I can't see any reason why the Leafs would trade for Stamkos now. Well, maybe so they can negotiate early and have the opportunity to sign him for 8 instead of 7 years. But unless the Leafs are able to trade fluff for him, and no way Yzerman is going to get rid of him without getting a few massive pieces back, there's no point in pursuing this option.

There are some situations where trading could be beneficial.

The biggest being moving Cap out..

ie If Phaneuf (in full) could be included in a trade then his full $7 mil cap moves out and that creates the majority of the Cap space for signing Stamkos at @ ~$ 10 mil. That means Leafs only really have to create +$3 mil extra cap space.

Dealing Dion (in a package) for Stamkos could be better than signing Stamkos and having Dion as that would = $17 mil cap total instead of just the differential.

 

[WTFMAN99]

On the plus, we will know that soon enough. I agree, if the Leafs won the lotto, they won't think about Stamkos.

However, what if we landed 2nd or 3rd? That might entice the Leafs to go for the Centerman, not sure on that one.

That's tough...kind of, you probably still go for Laine...but our defense would still be concerning long term.

I'm having a real struggle internally with Chychrun and Sergachev.

 

[Stephen]

There are some situations where trading could be beneficial.

The biggest being moving Cap out..

ie If Phaneuf (in full) could be included in a trade then his full $7 mil cap moves out and that creates the majority of the Cap space for signing Stamkos at @ ~$ 10 mil. That means Leafs only really have to create +$3 mil extra cap space.

Dealing Dion (in a package) for Stamkos could be better than signing Stamkos and having Dion as that would = $17 mil cap total instead of just the differential.

Tampa won't go for Dion. They could use the cap space on their remaining RFA and UFAs.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Tampa won't go for Dion. They could use the cap space on their remaining RFA and UFAs.

They desperately want to get rid of Carle.

Also think they wouldn't shed a tear if Callahan left.

 

[Mess]

Tampa won't go for Dion. They could use the cap space on their remaining RFA and UFAs.

Would TB see more value in getting something (ie Phaneuf + ??) in trade for Stamkos instead of having Stamkos leave for TO as a UFA anyways and then get nothing?

You're essentially saying TB would prefer nothing instead of Dion and prefer to use the cap space gained when Stamkos leaves to resign their own players with.

Stamkos holds all the cards and says "trade me to Toronto" to get something as I'm not waiving my NMC for any other team and hope to sign with the Leafs as UFA anyway if I'm not resigned here. What does Stevie Y do?

In addition to the Leaf cap space situation improving to compensate for Stamkos new deal, by trading their current captain Dion in a trade for Stamkos they can then name Stammer their new captain thereafter.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Would TB see more value in getting something (ie Phaneuf + ??) in trade for Stamkos instead of having Stamkos leave for TO as a UFA anyways and then get nothing?

You're essentially saying TB would prefer nothing instead of Dion and prefer to use the cap space gained when Stamkos leaves to resign their own players with.

Stamkos holds all the cards and says "trade me to Toronto" to get something as I'm not waiving my NMC for any other team and hope to sign with the Leafs as UFA anyway if I'm not resigned here. What does Stevie Y do?

I'd say that's true. Offer Dion to TB for nothing and they say no for exactly that reason.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Would TB see more value in getting something (ie Phaneuf + ??) in trade for Stamkos instead of having Stamkos leave for TO as a UFA anyways and then get nothing?

You're essentially saying TB would prefer nothing instead of Dion and prefer to use the cap space gained when Stamkos leaves to resign their own players with.

Stamkos holds all the cards and says "trade me to Toronto" to get something as I'm not waiving my NMC for any other team and hope to sign with the Leafs as UFA anyway if I'm not resigned here. What does Stevie Y do?

IF they were to re-sign Stamkos, at least 1 big name in tampa is being moved out, most likely Two. They always knew this.

The difference is, Stamkos is worth losing a core member for.... and Dion is not.

Sad truth.... I would rather take nothing. That is not a shot at Dion, just Tampa is in a tight spot going forward. When you look at the names of the players they have coming up, and the MASSIVE size of raises those players are going to receive, it's just not feasible.

I would try to hit Toronto up for picks and prospects, and a few players not named Dion that fall off the books, sooner than later. To which, Toronto most likely says no, and waits till July 1st anyways.

 

[Todd Skill]

I saw this mentioned before, but what is preventing Toronto giving Stamkos a 1 year deal at the max (whatever it is) in another throwaway year, and then day one before he ever gets on the ice, extending him to a more cap friendly 7-8 year extension?

 

[WTFMAN99]

I saw this mentioned before, but what is preventing Toronto giving Stamkos a 1 year deal at the max (whatever it is) in another throwaway year, and then day one before he ever gets on the ice, extending him to a more cap friendly 7-8 year extension?

Common sense.

Stamkos will take the max term because it's guaranteed rather then risking a career ending/altering injury on his next contract.

He's getting 8 years from Tampa or 7 from anyone else.

This should really be the end of this train of thought.

 

[Ovate]

Common sense.

Stamkos will take the max term because it's guaranteed rather then risking a career ending/altering injury on his next contract.

He's getting 8 years from Tampa or 7 from anyone else.

This should really be the end of this train of thought.

Agreed he's getting max term.

But I think if Tampa doesn't sign him, they trade him for 3rd or 4th near the draft, and then the acquiring team offers him 8 years.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Agreed he's getting max term.

But I think if Tampa doesn't sign him, they trade him for 3rd or 4th near the draft, and then the acquiring team offers him 8 years.

We just covered this a bit back, he needs to be with a team at the deadline to be able to get the 8th year from a team. I thought he had to be with the team even earlier then TDL but apparently if he's with someone at the TDL, it's good enough to offer 8 years.

Basically if you got his rights at the draft, you're just buying some negotiating time.

 

[Mess]

I saw this mentioned before, but what is preventing Toronto giving Stamkos a 1 year deal at the max (whatever it is) in another throwaway year, and then day one before he ever gets on the ice, extending him to a more cap friendly 7-8 year extension?

FWIW

As per the CBA rules any player signed to a 1 year deal can't begin to negotiate and resign until Jan 1st of the following year.

So if Stammer took a 1 year deal from TO as a UFA on July 1st, 2016 for 20% max (Also CBA upper limit allowable restriction % of teams cap). Then not until Jan 1st, 2017 could Leafs resign him for his 8 year deal. Stamkos would have to play 1/2 a season first.

 

[ACC1224]

I saw this mentioned before, but what is preventing Toronto giving Stamkos a 1 year deal at the max (whatever it is) in another throwaway year, and then day one before he ever gets on the ice, extending him to a more cap friendly 7-8 year extension?

makes no sense for the player to accept this, won't happen.