Why will this team not go all in?

[Ianturnedbull]

Question: Why will this team not go all in?
Answer: Shanny and Dubas are stubborn. They seem to be more hell bent on proving that the hockey world has changed. They are also at odds with the media (even though they pretend to be bulletproof from them). Shanny/Dubas has a massive management team surrounding them, and yet decisions default to whether a player is a Soo Greyhounds Alumni or not.

 

[AvroArrow]

i don't know what you are talking about.

everyone in the leafs org are winners.

our superstar players. our winning first coaches and GM.

this team is a dynasty in the making.

we should be happy with what we are witnessing.

(zekes4days4lyfe)

I don't know what you are talking about

I don't care if this team set a franchise record in points

I don't care if we have the reigning, Hart/Rocket/Lindsay winner

I don't care if our rivals are all trending downward while we are trending upward

I don't care if we got jobbed in 7 games against a team that won b2b cups and made 3 finals in a row

I'm gonna bitch and whine like a little kid because this team sucks because they can't get out of the 1st round. Watching the games and context doesn't matter, you don't need to understand hockey or how the actual series played or how teams windows open and close, like how our Atlantic rivals windows are all closing. It's all about losing game 7. Blow it up !

 

[Blowfish]

They don't even have a legit goalie

This and the D is old and fragile.

 

[ShaneFalco]

This board is full of people who are emotionally stable and are able to analyze how the series actually played out and where they currently stand in comparison to the competition. Then again this board is so big there's ton of people having emotional mental breakdowns.

They lost
6 years in a row
Thers no analysis needed I less you're looking for excuses. Theres tons of those.
Wasted years. That's should be the analysis, and how they still employ.an arrogant rookie.

 

[AvroArrow]

They lost
6 years in a row
Thers no analysis needed I less you're looking for excuses. Theres tons of those.
Wasted years. That's should be the analysis, and how they still employ.an arrogant rookie.

Ok let's blow it up, clearly Matthews can't lead this team. Trade him, Marner, Nylander, blow up the entire team.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

This and the D is old and fragile.

This is what I'm surprised hasn't seen much talk. Can you remember an older slower defense than what they dressed in the playoffs last year?

 

[All Mod Cons]

Ok let's blow it up, clearly Matthews can't lead this team. Trade him, Marner, Nylander, blow up the entire team.

Is there no middle ground? Or are you one of the ones that think half of the fanbase just wants a lineup of Colton Orr?

 

[Mickey Marner]

I kinda thought we did in 2021 when we traded away a 1st, 3rd, two 4ths, 5th and 6th round picks at the deadline. No cap space to do much beyond throw picks around at the deadline.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ok let's blow it up, clearly Matthews can't lead this team. Trade him, Marner, Nylander, blow up the entire team.

Funny that's the response to anyone who doesn't praise Dubas
Because there's no adjusting the core or anything - it has to.be blown up apparently

 

[AvroArrow]

Funny that's the response to anyone who doesn't praise Dubas
Because there's no adjusting the core or anything - it has to.be blown up apparently

So what do you think needs to be done in order for this team to be successful

Is there no middle ground? Or are you one of the ones that think half of the fanbase just wants a lineup of Colton Orr?

Sure there's a middle ground but I've yet to hear anyone talk about, just constant whining about Dubas and the 1st round over and over

 

[All Mod Cons]

Funny that's the response to anyone who doesn't praise Dubas
Because there's no adjusting the core or anything - it has to.be blown up apparently

Yeah. They go to such extremes. Very hard to converse with because as soon as they feel the need to defend Dubas (normally within the first sentence) it becomes oh yeah let's just fold the franchise or yeah let's trade Matthews for Jamie Devane or let's just draft Tyler Biggs.

You can't get anywhere with them. Pointless exercise.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I agree with those who think that the "all in" move was the Tavares signing.

Since then, the cap has stagnated and it's logical to speculate that this has hampered Dubas significantly. We've been forced to adapt relying more on bargain bin signings and young players than management likely anticipated.

Fortunately, Dubas has been pretty good at finding bargain contracts to come in and support the team.


The stagnant cap is taking it's toll on everyone, but Dubas definitely got caught with his pants down on that one. We seem to be in an NHL where there are too many teams needing to move cap and not enough teams to accommodate them.

 

[Racer88]

Ok let's blow it up, clearly Matthews can't lead this team. Trade him, Marner, Nylander, blow up the entire team.

I don’t think blowing it up is the answer but unfortunately we will have to wait until the Tavares contract is over and we have a GM that has a clue how to balance a team…….I just hope Matthews and Marner stick around that long

 

[34]

Go all in? This team is entering a rebuild. They are about to lose Matthews and Nylander and have the worst goaltender in the NHL.

 

[LeafEgo]

The problem with going "all in" is ultimately there's no guaranteed set of moves a GM can do to ensure postseason success. The risk of getting burned is high. That said, if the smart move is there, the Leafs should bias trades to focus more on "win now" than *win later".

I also don't understand the focus on Chychrun in particular - the last thing this team needs is an offensive centric LHD.... Probably the position with the most depth on the organization.

There is a lot to like about Chych for the Leafs. Mostly, he's young on a cheap contract with three more years. Makes him very valuable to us given our budget strapped D corps, which isn't going to change while we have four very expensive forwards that don't drive their own line. But also, Chych adds physical presence to the back end, and a bomb from the point.

Word is he's comfortable on the right side. If true, on paper he could be perfect for Rielly, and given his age, could also be a perfect long term replacement for Muzzy when he fades away.

Ideally he would be a righty, but if the plan is to spend no more than 22M on defence then he makes a good target.

 

[Canada4Gold]

There’s a lot of inconsistencies in the op.

We had the worst rebuild in history. Usually in a rebuild, a team accumulates picks and tries to draft players who actually make it. They capitalize on picks after the 1st round. Chicago had byfuglien, keith, bickell, crawford, hjalmarsson, etc. Pittsburgh got letang in the 3rd, murray, sheary in the 3rd. Toronto drafted travis dermott that’s it.

They didn’t even stick to the plan. If they did, they wouldn’t have traded a 2nd for brian boyle and another 2nd for tomas plekanec.

They went “all in” by wasting a lot of picks on ben hutton, foligno, riley nash and rittich.

Believe it or not, the management has addressed issues over the years. One year we needed defence, so we got muzzin and then brodie. The next we needed “toughness and leadership.” So they signed simmonds, thornton and then traded for foligno. They also had size in galchenyuk as well. They had bogosian for one year to address veteranship and experience.

The leafs may not have the 11th best prospect pool. Those are just opinions from a scouting service and that one guy. They have certainly been efficient with their picks however.

The worst rebuild in history?

Sure it hasn't gone to plan, but Buffalo and Arizona has gone through about 3 rebuilds each in the last 9 years. Buffalo got their superstar piece 7 years ago and already decided they had to trade him and try rebuilding all over again.

 

[Maplebeasts]

There’s a lot of inconsistencies in the op.

We had the worst rebuild in history. Usually in a rebuild, a team accumulates picks and tries to draft players who actually make it. They capitalize on picks after the 1st round. Chicago had byfuglien, keith, bickell, crawford, hjalmarsson, etc. Pittsburgh got letang in the 3rd, murray, sheary in the 3rd. Toronto drafted travis dermott that’s it.

They didn’t even stick to the plan. If they did, they wouldn’t have traded a 2nd for brian boyle and another 2nd for tomas plekanec.

They went “all in” by wasting a lot of picks on ben hutton, foligno, riley nash and rittich.

Believe it or not, the management has addressed issues over the years. One year we needed defence, so we got muzzin and then brodie. The next we needed “toughness and leadership.” So they signed simmonds, thornton and then traded for foligno. They also had size in galchenyuk as well. They had bogosian for one year to address veteranship and experience.

The leafs may not have the 11th best prospect pool. Those are just opinions from a scouting service and that one guy. They have certainly been efficient with their picks however.

The worst rebuild in history? Are you serious lol? If you had any credibility before you have none now.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

The problem with going "all in" is ultimately there's no guaranteed set of moves a GM can do to ensure postseason success. The risk of getting burned is high. That said, if the smart move is there, the Leafs should bias trades to focus more on "win now" than *win later".

I also don't understand the focus on Chychrun in particular - the last thing this team needs is an offensive centric LHD.... Probably the position with the most depth on the organization.

Exactly! Do you go all in on rentals at the trade deadline and hope for post season sucess or do continue to keep drafting, developing and one day bring them up to the big club?

 

[deprw]

Exactly! Do you go all in on rentals at the trade deadline and hope for post season sucess or do continue to keep drafting, developing and one day bring them up to the big club?

I think in overall it's about doing the right thing at the right moment. 2021 was no brainer to throw in picks and we did. We also overpaid and made bad gamble. If 2023 we have good situation and there are right players available you might push the button or you don't depending on the price. It's like UFA market, choose your fights and don't overspend.

What Tampa did 2020 was perfect example of timing, scouting and execution. Dubas also rarely goes for rentals, so that kind of approach would suit us, if we get the chance.

Go all in? This team is entering a rebuild. They are about to lose Matthews and Nylander and have the worst goaltender in the NHL.

Perfect example of being over dramatic. There is 1/32 chance having worst goaltender in the NHL. I don't think we have that.

Also this next season timing wise is boiling pretty neatly for us to do damage in the league. Atlantic is more well rounded but not as top heavy we have used to. Last season with that top heavy division we racked up 115 points. Florida won't repeat their season, Boston is in shambles at start of the year and Lightning lost core pieces.

I think we have to f*** up twice more to get into that rebuilding part. Only idiot would blow this team up now. Making a change or two before or during the season might be good, but don't go Foligno or Thornton or Giroux.

 

[Prominence]

The worst rebuild in history?

Sure it hasn't gone to plan, but Buffalo and Arizona has gone through about 3 rebuilds each in the last 9 years. Buffalo got their superstar piece 7 years ago and already decided they had to trade him and try rebuilding all over again.

The only reason the leafs are in the playoffs is because they had the 4th overall pick in 2015, the first in 2016. The 2015 draft was stacked and the leafs managed to win the top pick in 2016 which was not guaranteed to be 100%. I actually addressed buffalo’s rebuild where they didn’t have the same opportunities as toronto.

Our rebuild? Yes.

If you’re talking about their rebuild from 2011-2014, they got victor olofsson in the 7th round, compher in the 2nd, jake mccabe in the 2nd, and brendan lemieux. I selected those years because it’s when buffalo accumulated the most picks. They’re not groundbreakers, but still capitalized on more picks than toronto’s travis dermott and grundstrom. Where they may have been better is with their 1st round picks, but they only had one top 5 pick in reinhart in 2014.

The only reason toronto is a perennial playoff team is because of the first round picks in marner (4), matthews (1), nylander(8). They picked very high, but couldn’t pick anyone good after the 1st round.

Arizona: they whiffed badly in 2015 getting strome, but got garland in the 6th, and christian fischer who is similar to dermott in value. They got dvorak in the late 2nd and bunting in the 4th. Chychrun with the 16th ain’t so bad either. I give the drafting edge to arizona due to better drafting after the 1st round, but it can go either way due to strome in 2015.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The worst rebuild in history?

Sure it hasn't gone to plan, but Buffalo and Arizona has gone through about 3 rebuilds each in the last 9 years. Buffalo got their superstar piece 7 years ago and already decided they had to trade him and try rebuilding all over again.

Agreed. I would add EDM to the list. They seem ok now, but how many GMs and coaches did they go through to get to this point?

 

[notbias]

If we go all in next year, we could potentially be the next Florida, sounds fun!

I feel like these big moves never work out for the team making them. Hockey is too random of a sport, the best team doesn't always win.

 

[bentharbs]

This team cannot go all in because of five letters: JTNMC

 

[ShaneFalco]

If we go all in next year, we could potentially be the next Florida, sounds fun!

I feel like these big moves never work out for the team making them. Hockey is too random of a sport, the best team doesn't always win.

View attachment 572247

View attachment 572248

Yeah it's always a random sport, Leafs are unlucky, the outplay everyone yet still lose
Just stop

 

[Leaf Fans]

This team cannot go all in because of five letters: JTNMC

The graphics card? For what? Your spreadsheets?