Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[Lou Sassole]

I think that's largely untrue, except for the occasional dingbat on both sides. There's a Caps fan who is still digging his grave on the "37pts in 22gp is NOT PPG" thing.

By now, I would be confident in suggesting that the rivalry between the Pens and Caps (and, more specifically, Sid and Ovi) has cooled down quite a bit and that both fan bases are appreciative of both players. I know I am.

I want Ovi to break the record so while I'm still a Pens fan, I'm rooting for him to continue scoring.

As a Caps fan, it does go both ways, Hell, there are still Caps fans(and other teams), that have trouble acknowledging how great Mario was(which is insanity). It clearly goes both ways and pops up more on one side or the other, depending on how each guy and their teams, are performing. People are crazy tribal, we are just wired that way.

 

[SEALBound]

Whereas I believe a per game stat should have a minimum games played in order to count towards an entire "season," you apparently believe there should be no standard what-so-ever.

MLB has a minimum 550 at-bats in order for a player to win a batting average title for a given season. You believe MLB is 'digging its own grave' with this "dingbat" standard because ___________________.

Truly, I am interested in what your rational basis is here.

Then go watch the MLB.

There has never been a basis for what constitutes a "season" for a player in terms of % of games played. You are making this up literally out of thin air because you don't like Crosby.

(mod)

My rational basis is 37pts divided by 22gp equals 1.68 points per game. And that is greater than or equal to 1.0 points per game.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

The next person who makes things personal in this thread will receive a thread ban and five points for their troubles.

You have been warned.

It's the same damn people every single time.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

I completely agree. He’s had a great year this year so far and is proving me wrong. Kudos to him.

But thinking he’d have a worse season than he has at this age doesn’t make me a hater. People are just so sensitive on these boards. Especially Ovi fans.

I don't see that as being a hater (I shouldn't have highlighted that part), if anything your expectation is more than reasonable. I think everyone is surprised Ovechkin is still able to produce as he is. Even the biggest Ovie fan must be somewhat surprised a guy who's turning 40 in Sept can be leading the league in goals a 1/4 into the season.

Other people that complain that his linemates are setting him up to get the record I find those takes bad also. Why wouldn't you get the puck to the guy who despite his age, has the ability to get the puck in the back of the net with such regularity.

This isn't like Marleau sticking around to get the games played record at a point where in my eyes he didn't even look like be belonged in the NHL anymore. Or when Yandle who was down right horrid aiming for the ironman streak.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

The Caps can do whatever they want to please their fan base. If that is going all out for OV's goal record? Power to them. This is not a shot at Crosby. Crosby record stand on its own. I've never understood the hate between Crosby and OV fans. Why can we not celebrate that two of the all time top 10 players in history played in the same era?

No doubt. Crosby and Ovechkin literally brought a ton of excitement into the league coming out of the lockout.

 

[filinski77]

My rational basis is 37pts divided by 22gp equals 1.68 points per game. And that is greater than or equal to 1.0 points per game. So I guess my rational basis is the "simple math". Sorry facts hurt your feelings.

I think we need to use some common sense though.

If Ovechkin was out for the season after that hit, it would 1000% face backlash for someone to use this following logic: "Ovechkin had 15 goals in 18 games - that is 0.83 goals per game and is a 68 goal pace. Ovechkin that season was better than any of the guys who scored 50-60 actual goals".

It is a statistical fact in hockey that it is harder to maintain a per game pace the more games you play in a season, and that the less games you play in a sample, the less indicative it is of what a real full seasons result would have been. We have seen this with all elite players.

The question is how far is too far. I agree that it's fair to say that Crosby putting up 37 in 22gp can lend you to assume he is better than 80 in 80gp. But however, it isn't as clear to assume that it's better than 100 points in 82gp.

When the discussion becomes "is 22 games enough to say that this person finished first in points per game?" My assessment is no. Just like if Ovi only played 15 games this season, that wouldn't be enough to really consider it a 1st place goal/gp finish when comparing him to people at season-end.

 

[zappa4ever]

///

My rational basis is 37pts divided by 22gp equals 1.68 points per game. And that is greater than or equal to 1.0 points per game. So I guess my rational basis is the "simple math". ///

Not to belabor the point, curious...
since 22GP at PPG+ you consider a PPG "season"

Is there a cutoff/minimum number of games played per season at all for you?
20GP? 10GP? 5GP?
Or does 1 single game played with 1 point considered a PPG season?

 

[filinski77]

I think we could just close the thread, as it seems there isn’t the narrative OP thought there was.

I think the answer to the threat title is clear.

YES - some posters have made a narrative that the Caps were sacrificing everything to get Ovi the record. This is evident by hundreds of posts on Ovi/Capitals threads about this.

NO - those posters were not correct. This is evident by the capitals success in their rebuild and season performance, while also maintaining/building a good talent pool at the same time.

NO - the penguins haven't been sacrificing anything on the behalf of Crosby. They made some bat bets on an aging team and have put themselves in a bad situation for sure, but that has more to do with having an aging core of superstars they wanted to do good by (Crosby, Malkin, Letang), and nothing to do with trying to get Crosby any kind of personal record or accolade.

 

[SEALBound]

Not to belabor the point, curious...
since 22GP at PPG+ you consider a PPG "season"

Is there a cutoff/minimum number of games played per season at all for you?
20GP? 10GP? 5GP?
Or does 1 single game played with 1 point considered a PPG season?

Yes. Now, if you want to come back and say "yeah, it was a PPG season but he only played X games" as a point of discussion, fine. But to say "I've arbitrarily decided that Sid did NOT play enough game for it to be considered a season therefore his 37pts in 22gp do not count" is, again, asinine.

Especially given that we are talking about Sidney Crosby in his prime.

 

[zappa4ever]

Yes. Now, if you want to come back and say "yeah, it was a PPG season but he only played X games" as a point of discussion, fine. But to say "I've arbitrarily decided that Sid did NOT play enough game for it to be considered a season therefore his 37pts in 22gp do not count" is, again, asinine.

Especially given that we are talking about Sidney Crosby in his prime.

That's totally fine, appreciate the response, a consistent absolutist position regardless of games played (even 1 ) is certainly a valid position
Cheers

 

[SkinsFan09]

The Capitals are the third-fastest team to reach 100 goals in the last 30 years and the fastest since the 2005-06 Senators.

While everyone is focused on the development of their forwards, the bigger story is on defense. Last year they were 30th in points from the back end in the NHL. 24 games into this season they are 1st with 70 points. Last year Capitals defensemen scored just 20 goals, this year they already have 16 with 58 games left.

 

[philip]

This is one of the best rebuilds on the fly I think there has been in recent years. Tanking for picks and being deliberately bad to fudge the draft system in a professional sport is for losers imo and not to be admired. To try and turn what the Caps have done into a negative, some how purely in the interests of Ovechkin is mental gymnastics difficult to comprehend. Becoming more competitive despite aging and injured core is brilliant GMing. This is the best iteration of Caps since 2018. Without getting carried away, could be even better? (there, I said it) Fantastic achievement so far

 

[SkinsFan09]

Capitals

- best record in the NHL
- above average future prospect pool (yes this is subjective but it's not a disaster)

Ovechkin

- leading NHL in G/60and ESG/60 by a significant margin
- 6th in NHL in P/60
- 16th in the NHL with a +22 rating

Will they win the Cup, probably not, but they have built a contender without sacrificing the future and getting the best out of their aging 39-year old captain. Of course nobody who accused them of caring only about the record and sacrificing team success will say they were wrong (and there were lots of people) but you have to tip your cap to the organization.

 

[LaCarriere]

I think both have given enough to their respective teams that ownership/management shouldnt move them if that's what they want, or if they are open to a trade that will have a big return / impact on a rebuild, then do that too.

It seems that both want to finish off their careers where they are, and I think they've both earned that choice. They are two players instrumental to bringing cups to their cities. Whatever either team would get in return is never going to replace them. You pretty much only get that kind of talent with a #1 pick.

 

[BallardEra]

Crosby is a better and far more complete player at this point. He's good enough that his play stops his team from tanking. So you either trade him or build some kind of team around him.

Ovechkin is extremely one dimensional at this point. The Caps aren't really doing what's in the best of interest of winning either. Honestly, I were the Caps, I'd kill two birds with one stone. Go full tank except for an Ovy led powerplay with a bunch of PP specialists. Ovy gets his record. The Caps get the rebuild.

The Pens now exist to keep Sid’s points per game streak going.

 

[BallardEra]

Still don't think he gets the record. He'll be 20 or so short heading into his final year in the NHL as a 40 year old just hanging on.

12 more to go.

 

[benfranklin]

Ill eat crow on this one minorly. I still dont think management expected this type of play from them so the premise is still correct that they didnt go hard trying to make this a Cup team, but holy hell is it working out nicely. Im betting a 1st-2nd rd exit, but obv a huge overachievement based on expectations.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

Caps are winning it all this year.

Ovechkin is going to go out on the most goated season ever.

 

[TRASHCAT]

Man I was hoping this got bumped cause we lost with a "SHOULDA DONE A REAL REBUILD"

 

[SkinsFan09]

Ill eat crow on this one minorly. I still dont think management expected this type of play from them so the premise is still correct that they didnt go hard trying to make this a Cup team, but holy hell is it working out nicely. Im betting a 1st-2nd rd exit, but obv a huge overachievement based on expectations.

What? They used all the cap space they had available to upgrade every line.

 

[BallardEra]

The Dubas Invitational Golf Tournament update:

 

[DitchMarner]

The Dubas Invitational Golf Tournament update:

View attachment 983151

lmao... they don't have a single plus player?

 

[DitchMarner]

Personally, I find what Ovechkin is doing this season more impressive than anything Crosby's done recently (since like 2021 - maybe earlier).

Yeah, Crosby's had some nice ~90 point seasons on a subpar Penguins team that hasn't been quite good enough for the playoffs, but he's not the all around player he used to be. His defensive play/impact has tanked in recent years. So there's not too much more that he's providing other than offense (well, and a good possession game and leadership).

I'm not pretending Ovechkin is the force he was in the late 2000s or a Mark Stone-esque two-way winger, but he's showing tremendous heart and resilience and seems to be a really good veteran presence and leader at this point. He's also showing that he can integrate his skills well into a system that benefits both himself and his team (something that he was criticized - perhaps unfairly - for not being able to do in the past). He's been an important contributor to the best team in the East and the Capitals have a better record with him in the line-up than without this year (and the sample size of missed games is considerable). I find all of this more impressive than making some crappy team that would be 13th or so a 9th or 10th placed team (although the bottom really seems to be falling out this year for PIT).

 

[BallardEra]

lmao... they don't have a single plus player?

Looks like only 2 guys who played 6 games this season at +1.

He's now second in goals for most ever in an age 39 season:

39-Year Old NHL Players - Regular Season Stats

39-year old NHL player stats. NHL player statistics segmented by age group.

www.quanthockey.com

 

[SkinsFan09]

Crosby is a better and far more complete player at this point. He's good enough that his play stops his team from tanking. So you either trade him or build some kind of team around him.

Ovechkin is extremely one dimensional at this point. The Caps aren't really doing what's in the best of interest of winning either. Honestly, I were the Caps, I'd kill two birds with one stone. Go full tank except for an Ovy led powerplay with a bunch of PP specialists. Ovy gets his record. The Caps get the rebuild.

(before everyone gets angry, I am simply using this to point out that plus minus is a highly flawed stat)