Why will this team not go all in?

[AvroArrow]

I think this is the year we do it, Leafs are winning the Atlantic

Tampa lost McDonagh + Palat, their guys are a year older

Boston steadily declining

Florida just destroyed their roster. Lost their 2nd best D man, replaced Hubs with Tkachuk which to me is an upgrade, but no Marchment, no Giroux, Duclair injured, they are unquestionably worse going into this season

Leafs lost Campbell and Mikheyev...core is intact


We are the best team in the Atlantic, we were 2nd last year and all our divisional rivals got worse. Detroit and Ottawa are trending up but nowhere near where we are. I think this is the year Dubas goes all in at the TDL. Early prediction, Toronto vs Carolina ECF.

This is the year it makes sense to go all in. Dubas knows his job is on the line, but also this team is primed to make a solid run this year. There is no juggernaut team like last years Avs this year, but lots of good contenders. Hoping Knies comes up, Robertson as well, move the 1st for an immediate impact player. Honestly would even be open to trading for JT Miller retained, it probably costs us a 1st + Robertson but I'd do it, get that top 6LW.

 

[AvroArrow]

The simple fact that they need to “go all in “ just to win a single round is depressing enough.
with this star studded core unable to win even 1 round in the last 6 years says this is not the group to do another all in.

No. We played Tampa last year and were the far better team, some extremely unlucky calls/missed calls favored Tampa and was the biggest factor in determining the series. Tampa also won back to back cups and went on to make the finals, it was a great series and the boys gave it their all.

We lost to Boston twice in game 7, another legitimate cup contender team that went on to make the finals.

Habs went on to make the finals and we had significant injuries. Tavares out the whole series, Muzzin out, Foligno out, Matthews playing with 1 wrist.

Washington was a legit cup contender and won the cup the following year. Also it was our cores rookie seasons, great series.

Columbus was a choke job, the other series were all respectable. It's just easy to laugh and say "haha leafs" We played teams that in a regular 1-8 seeding system, would've made the ECF, but cause of stupid divisional playoffs we play them in the 1st. The Atlantic is the most stacked division in the NHL, we have had the hardest 1st round opponents. Look at the Pacific lol, it's a joke, Oilers fans are pumping their chests about struggling to beat a trash LA kings team without their best player in 7, nearly losing.

Every 1st round match up is not the same, if we were in any other division in the NHL we'd probably have made a couple conference finals trips by now. But this year is different, we are now the favorite in our division. Tampa/Florida/Boston have all gotten significantly worse.

So to say "cant win a single round" without context and looking at level of competition and without seeing that all series went to the absolute limit, is just misleading. Game 6 and 7 this year were absolutely influenced by the refs in favor of Tampa, whether it was by accident or on purpose is a different story. But they absolutely had a massive advantage in that regard. Game 2 in 2019 against Boston was absolutely thrown by the officials, that was the worst officiated game I have ever seen in professional sports. No doubt that shit was 100% rigged.

This team will win the Atlantic division and make the conference finals this year, mark my words. This Leafs team is just as good as the one last year and our rivals have all gotten worse. This is the year you go all in, I expect Dubas to do it and I expect a deep playoff run.

 

[Mess]

Last decade we have played SC finalist of the East four times on first round.

Those SC teams used our Leafs as a stepping stone to advance deep into the playoffs.

Now our Leafs need to find their own stepping stones of teams they're capable of beating in the playoffs and advancing onwards.

Therein lies the problem it seems. Leafs are always the 2nd best team in a winner take all situation, even when they enter the series as the favourites and have home ice advantage.

You almost make it sound like our Leafs as Div Winners and +18 points better than Montreal entering the playoffs, was simply bad luck Leafs drew the lowest ranked playoff team because Montreal went to the SC finals.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Last decade we have played SC finalist of the East four times on first round. You have to go back two decades to find a record like that (Nashville Predators) and you can go back three decades and you still find that same amount of teams that have done that. Nashville Predators and Toronto Maple Leafs.

This is not that mind blowing. You have to be the best to beat the best, even in your own conference. Losers always have an excuse I suppose.

I think this is the year we do it, Leafs are winning the Atlantic

Tampa lost McDonagh + Palat, their guys are a year older

Boston steadily declining

Florida just destroyed their roster. Lost their 2nd best D man, replaced Hubs with Tkachuk which to me is an upgrade, but no Marchment, no Giroux, Duclair injured, they are unquestionably worse going into this season

Leafs lost Campbell and Mikheyev...core is intact


We are the best team in the Atlantic, we were 2nd last year and all our divisional rivals got worse. Detroit and Ottawa are trending up but nowhere near where we are. I think this is the year Dubas goes all in at the TDL. Early prediction, Toronto vs Carolina ECF.

This is the year it makes sense to go all in. Dubas knows his job is on the line, but also this team is primed to make a solid run this year. There is no juggernaut team like last years Avs this year, but lots of good contenders. Hoping Knies comes up, Robertson as well, move the 1st for an immediate impact player. Honestly would even be open to trading for JT Miller retained, it probably costs us a 1st + Robertson but I'd do it, get that top 6LW.

Sure, hope our goalies are up to the task and don't let in softies. High glove is the strategy against Murray for sure, if Matt is even able to stay healthy. Samsonov yeesh - god knows. Hope for the best, rabbits foot and all that stuff I suppose.

 

[All Mod Cons]

They should have patience. We can't do anything about the team anyway. We should just enjoy the games as they come. The more games, the better.

89 every year. (Sans Covid)

 

[Leaf Fans]

89 every year. (Sans Covid)

If that is what you are happy with fine. For me, I want even more games to enjoy each year.

 

[Coachcorner]

This is the best roster the Leafs have had in decades. We have several stars in their primes. I get the initial plan was to draft well and contend for years, but we are at a point where this plan doesn't matter anymore because people will be fired and players traded by new management. It feels like this front office is more focused on sticking to the plan than anything else.

Shanny said



However the 5 year plan has come and gone. This is an elite team who just needs to be put over the top, but management won't do it. They are happy to exchange depth pieces and hope next year is different. Why not go all in and go and get someone, ANYONE, who gives this team a real chance even if it is only for a year or two? I fear when looking back on this era what will overshadow any potential this team had will be management being happy to sit on their hands for most of it.

This is not a trade Nylander thread.
This is not a fire Dubas or Keefe thread
This is a what good is Robertson going to do for us in 2 years when Matthews, Nylander, and Marner can walk without us ever having success? Why do we move our firsts to dump capspace but will never use them to upgrade the team in a meaningful way?

View attachment 571713

According to this we have the 11th best prospect pool. While that is awesome, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CONTENDING. Why will management not move some of these guys and bring in a J.T Miller, a Chychrun, literally anything that improves the roster? We are all upset because we know the team is THIS close and they keep falling short. Isn't it managements job to give them what they need to get it done?

I don't care we have 4 forwards at 40M, what is done is done. What is clear is this team, in elimination games, needs scoring help. When will the Leafs go out and acquire someone who makes a difference, not move a first for Foligno. Instead we will continue to add depth pieces and spin our tires.

Thinkin they is ALL IN sire, but the personel is just not enough... you is right there. Our goaltending might not be the best in the league next season, although I'm expecting an ok game and that can win championchips if the rest of the team is aaaight like colorado and chicago was. It can be done with any goalie then. But yeah, our bottom six is not hard enough. We need deslauriels and reaves and evander and rinaldo and tucker and domi. Gary Roberts and Belfour. These was hard.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

This is the best roster the Leafs have had in decades. We have several stars in their primes. I get the initial plan was to draft well and contend for years, but we are at a point where this plan doesn't matter anymore because people will be fired and players traded by new management. It feels like this front office is more focused on sticking to the plan than anything else.

Shanny said



However the 5 year plan has come and gone. This is an elite team who just needs to be put over the top, but management won't do it. They are happy to exchange depth pieces and hope next year is different. Why not go all in and go and get someone, ANYONE, who gives this team a real chance even if it is only for a year or two? I fear when looking back on this era what will overshadow any potential this team had will be management being happy to sit on their hands for most of it.

This is not a trade Nylander thread.
This is not a fire Dubas or Keefe thread
This is a what good is Robertson going to do for us in 2 years when Matthews, Nylander, and Marner can walk without us ever having success? Why do we move our firsts to dump capspace but will never use them to upgrade the team in a meaningful way?

View attachment 571713

According to this we have the 11th best prospect pool. While that is awesome, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CONTENDING. Why will management not move some of these guys and bring in a J.T Miller, a Chychrun, literally anything that improves the roster? We are all upset because we know the team is THIS close and they keep falling short. Isn't it managements job to give them what they need to get it done?

I don't care we have 4 forwards at 40M, what is done is done. What is clear is this team, in elimination games, needs scoring help. When will the Leafs go out and acquire someone who makes a difference, not move a first for Foligno. Instead we will continue to add depth pieces and spin our tires.

I appreciate this thread and your theme.

I can't help but be stuck on the fact that TOR's prospect pool is ranked 11th. I know it's not the top, but I just don't see how TOR can be ranked so high.

We have almost nothing to show for our recent drafting. I mean all this investment in developing Liljegren, and we only have to show for it is he's now graduated to being a #6 defenseman. Robertson's ceiling is anyone's guess. Some feel he might not even get a taste of the top 6. It's a shame about Amirov. He might have been something, and he still could be something. Just not any time soon. Sandin might remain with TOR and contribute, but he must leap over Gio and Muzzin.

So to go back to Shanny's statement: we don't have a sustainable winning culture nor do we have one in the future.

I do agree that Dubas can't sit on his hands. He has to go for it. He needs clutch scoring. He needs players with more drive. He also needs more 1st round picks.

 

[Racer88]

Last decade we have played SC finalist of the East four times on first round. You have to go back two decades to find a record like that (Nashville Predators) and you can go back three decades and you still find that same amount of teams that have done that. Nashville Predators and Toronto Maple Leafs.

It shouldn’t matter who we have to play first round. We are supposed to be a good team. That’s why Shanny was brought in and why he hired Dubas. We also pay our stars v
like a good team

No. We played Tampa last year and were the far better team, some extremely unlucky calls/missed calls favored Tampa and was the biggest factor in determining the series. Tampa also won back to back cups and went on to make the finals, it was a great series and the boys gave it their all.

We lost to Boston twice in game 7, another legitimate cup contender team that went on to make the finals.

Habs went on to make the finals and we had significant injuries. Tavares out the whole series, Muzzin out, Foligno out, Matthews playing with 1 wrist.

Washington was a legit cup contender and won the cup the following year. Also it was our cores rookie seasons, great series.

Columbus was a choke job, the other series were all respectable. It's just easy to laugh and say "haha leafs" We played teams that in a regular 1-8 seeding system, would've made the ECF, but cause of stupid divisional playoffs we play them in the 1st. The Atlantic is the most stacked division in the NHL, we have had the hardest 1st round opponents. Look at the Pacific lol, it's a joke, Oilers fans are pumping their chests about struggling to beat a trash LA kings team without their best player in 7, nearly losing.

Every 1st round match up is not the same, if we were in any other division in the NHL we'd probably have made a couple conference finals trips by now. But this year is different, we are now the favorite in our division. Tampa/Florida/Boston have all gotten significantly worse.

So to say "cant win a single round" without context and looking at level of competition and without seeing that all series went to the absolute limit, is just misleading. Game 6 and 7 this year were absolutely influenced by the refs in favor of Tampa, whether it was by accident or on purpose is a different story. But they absolutely had a massive advantage in that regard. Game 2 in 2019 against Boston was absolutely thrown by the officials, that was the worst officiated game I have ever seen in professional sports. No doubt that shit was 100% rigged.

This team will win the Atlantic division and make the conference finals this year, mark my words. This Leafs team is just as good as the one last year and our rivals have all gotten worse. This is the year you go all in, I expect Dubas to do it and I expect a deep playoff run.

After 6 losses in a row there is no context just excuses

 

[All Mod Cons]

If that is what you are happy with fine. For me, I want even more games to enjoy each year.

What I'm happy with, and what the team can manage, have no correlation.

 

[mikeyz]

This team did go all in in 2021, but Dubas in his infinite wisdom targeted the wrong forward for a trade. This season I suppose he figured our offence would be enough without help and prioritized Giordano to shore up the defence. Also we couldn’t go too hard with trading futures given how many we blew through last season.

Leafs didn’t go all in this season but it almost worked. A couple bad calls away but that’s of no solace to anyone given how “close” we’ve been the past 5 playoffs.

This season I suppose we’ll see where the team is at and if he figures it’s worth it to go all in. Too many variables to know for sure if we’ll need scoring help or not, or if assets should be spent on a goalie if Murray and Samsonov turn out to be duds. Robertson could prove to be a reliable goal scorer and the need for another sniping winger drops.

"Almost" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades my friend. The bottom line is they still failed to win a playoff round.

 

[Prominence]

We were worse than Buffalo Sabres?

Our rebuild? Yes.

If you’re talking about their rebuild from 2011-2014, they got victor olofsson in the 7th round, compher in the 2nd, jake mccabe in the 2nd, and brendan lemieux. I selected those years because it’s when buffalo accumulated the most picks. They’re not groundbreakers, but still capitalized on more picks than toronto’s travis dermott and grundstrom. Where they may have been better is with their 1st round picks, but they only had one top 5 pick in reinhart in 2014.

The only reason toronto is a perennial playoff team is because of the first round picks in marner (4), matthews (1), nylander(8). They picked very high, but couldn’t pick anyone good after the 1st round.

 

[Leaf Fans]

What I'm happy with, and what the team can manage, have no correlation.

Oh, well. That is unfortunate. For me, I'd ideally like the team to win a Cup. That is manageable. The Sooner the better.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Oh, well. That is unfortunate. For me, I'd ideally like the team to win a Cup. That is manageable. The Sooner the better.

Evidently it is not manageable.

 

[Mitchy]

Only on this forum can the Buffalo Sabres rebuild (which is still going btw) be considered better than the Leafs. Good lord.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This team did go all in in 2021, but Dubas in his infinite wisdom targeted the wrong forward for a trade. This season I suppose he figured our offence would be enough without help and prioritized Giordano to shore up the defence. Also we couldn’t go too hard with trading futures given how many we blew through last season.

Leafs didn’t go all in this season but it almost worked. A couple bad calls away but that’s of no solace to anyone given how “close” we’ve been the past 5 playoffs.

This season I suppose we’ll see where the team is at and if he figures it’s worth it to go all in. Too many variables to know for sure if we’ll need scoring help or not, or if assets should be spent on a goalie if Murray and Samsonov turn out to be duds. Robertson could prove to be a reliable goal scorer and the need for another sniping winger drops.

No they didn't you can't go all in and not trade a single prospect for over 2 years that's not how all in works.

All in means ALL IN

94 Rangers

TB from 2018 to present

Florida currently that's an example of that not working so far.

2019 Raptors

LA Dogers

The 2020 Lakers who have proceeded to destroy that team but the fact remains they won.

LA RAMS

TB BUCKS

all in means ALL IN

The Leafs haven't done that not even close.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They went all in 2021 and shit the bed against the worst team in the playoffs.

Why go all in on a team that can't get out of the first round?

no they didn't at no point has this team truly gone all in.

you can't say you have gone all min without trading a single prospect for 2 years

the 94 rangers went all in

the 2018-present Lightning have gone all in.

the Panthers are going all in and it's not working

the 2019 Raptors went all in

the LA Rams went all in.

the 2020 Lakers went all in.

the LA Dodgers are all in

all in means ALL IN

if this team truly went all in.

Knies wouldn't be here
Sandin wouldn't be here
Lilly wouldn't be here
Neemila wouldn't be here
our next 3 1st rounders wouldn't be here

if this team was all in the cupboards would be empty they aren't

you could say the cupboards not being empty is a good thing

but make no mistake at no point has this team TRULY been all in not even close

 

[Leaf Fans]

Evidently it is not manageable.

Yes, you told me you want something that cannot be delivered. I on the otherhand want something that is.

 

[Knies iT]

Dubas has gone all-in. Problem is he does it in the worst way.

If you took even half of the assets he's pissed away you're looking at adding a Chychrun. But he makes half-measures every season and the average age of his acquisitions is pretty old with limited term. Even Muzzin was 29 when that trade happened.

He's also a very mediocre trading GM so maybe it's for the best he doesn't handle a deal of that magnitude.

 

[Maple Leaf]

They don't even have a legit goalie

 

[Funk21]

We can’t go all in anymore IMO given how many firsts we have already given up. One has to hope that players like Knies and Amirov will be ready to go at the end of this season or at worst starting next. Plus the notion that one of Neimela or Villeneuve or another steps up on D to also take it to the next level.

The questions swirling around the goal crease is another massive grey area. Our goalie prospect pool isn’t exactly that elite and nobody has pushed their name forward as a clear cut future starter.

See where this group takes it and if we aren’t good enough by the TDL make the tough call to pull it back for a year if need be. Just ensure both AM and Nylander are ready to sign long term deals before NMC kicks in. The Avs a few years took a step back and landed Markar. Not saying we would be so lucky but it’s not the worst thing in the world long term.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

I think this is the year we do it, Leafs are winning the Atlantic

Tampa lost McDonagh + Palat, their guys are a year older

Boston steadily declining

Florida just destroyed their roster. Lost their 2nd best D man, replaced Hubs with Tkachuk which to me is an upgrade, but no Marchment, no Giroux, Duclair injured, they are unquestionably worse going into this season

Leafs lost Campbell and Mikheyev...core is intact


We are the best team in the Atlantic, we were 2nd last year and all our divisional rivals got worse. Detroit and Ottawa are trending up but nowhere near where we are. I think this is the year Dubas goes all in at the TDL. Early prediction, Toronto vs Carolina ECF.

This is the year it makes sense to go all in. Dubas knows his job is on the line, but also this team is primed to make a solid run this year. There is no juggernaut team like last years Avs this year, but lots of good contenders. Hoping Knies comes up, Robertson as well, move the 1st for an immediate impact player. Honestly would even be open to trading for JT Miller retained, it probably costs us a 1st + Robertson but I'd do it, get that top 6LW.

"we won 3 games against tampa so we must be over the hurdle" off season approach shouldn't allow you to go all in.

I do still have hope dubas is good at scouting skilled prospects so it make more sense to see if they can make team versus selling them to go all in on a team that has flaws they never care to address

 

[Nineteen67]

No. We played Tampa last year and were the far better team, some extremely unlucky calls/missed calls favored Tampa and was the biggest factor in determining the series. Tampa also won back to back cups and went on to make the finals, it was a great series and the boys gave it their all.

We lost to Boston twice in game 7, another legitimate cup contender team that went on to make the finals.

Habs went on to make the finals and we had significant injuries. Tavares out the whole series, Muzzin out, Foligno out, Matthews playing with 1 wrist.

Washington was a legit cup contender and won the cup the following year. Also it was our cores rookie seasons, great series.

Columbus was a choke job, the other series were all respectable. It's just easy to laugh and say "haha leafs" We played teams that in a regular 1-8 seeding system, would've made the ECF, but cause of stupid divisional playoffs we play them in the 1st. The Atlantic is the most stacked division in the NHL, we have had the hardest 1st round opponents. Look at the Pacific lol, it's a joke, Oilers fans are pumping their chests about struggling to beat a trash LA kings team without their best player in 7, nearly losing.

Every 1st round match up is not the same, if we were in any other division in the NHL we'd probably have made a couple conference finals trips by now. But this year is different, we are now the favorite in our division. Tampa/Florida/Boston have all gotten significantly worse.

So to say "cant win a single round" without context and looking at level of competition and without seeing that all series went to the absolute limit, is just misleading. Game 6 and 7 this year were absolutely influenced by the refs in favor of Tampa, whether it was by accident or on purpose is a different story. But they absolutely had a massive advantage in that regard. Game 2 in 2019 against Boston was absolutely thrown by the officials, that was the worst officiated game I have ever seen in professional sports. No doubt that shit was 100% rigged.

This team will win the Atlantic division and make the conference finals this year, mark my words. This Leafs team is just as good as the one last year and our rivals have all gotten worse. This is the year you go all in, I expect Dubas to do it and I expect a deep playoff run.

CBJ and the Leafs had the same number of points and we’re in a playoff battle before the break. Losing the play in round wasn't a choke.

If you analyze their playoff losses objectively to see why they lost each year, it’s safe to say, aside from this past season, they probably wouldn’t have gone on any long playoff runs.

 

[ShaneFalco]

This board is full of excuses and apolpgists

 

[AvroArrow]

This board is full of excuses and apogists

This board is full of people who are emotionally stable and are able to analyze how the series actually played out and where they currently stand in comparison to the competition. Then again this board is so big there's ton of people having emotional mental breakdowns.