Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[Snuggs]

It’s sweet you’re pretending like you don’t know the answer to that one.

I know it's a discussion forum, but... it was a technical tiebreaker. One less bad game, one less Debrincat pipe-ring, and they were in. If they'd gotten in, would y'all still be yelling for heads?

I think it's very disingenuous to suggest people would have been mad if they made the playoffs.

I think it's sweet also to pretend like they didn't collapse out of the playoff spot vs just miss it with a lot of consistent tough play.

They basically did the opposite of the Tigers and pulled a Minnesota Twins.

There's reason to be upset with missing the playoffs last year without calling for heads... yet. Idk if I see people calling for firings yet. Maybe the direction of the rebuild and how successful it is or will be but Idk if people are saying fire Yzerman/Lalonde. (If they are, I'm not paying attention so, maybe, my bad if they are. )

 

[dalem177]

It’s sweet you’re pretending like you don’t know the answer to that one.

I know, I know. I'm falling for the bit. I should be better than that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think it's sweet also to pretend like they didn't collapse out of the playoff spot vs just miss it with a lot of consistent tough play.

Borderline playoff team is inconsistent. What a wild concept.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

If I have any complaint, it'd be pick two goalies and stick with them. I dislike running 3, so much.

 

[FissionFire]

They likely didnt want to waive someone they gave a decent sized contract to, which is why we saw so long for holl to be waived. But okay assuming they would have done this, the point remains the same, why wasn’t a player who was good enough to be top 4D on our roster when it was most important late in the season, on our team making it better the whole year? His roster construction still sucks either option you look at.

Late season Edvinsson was a very significantly better player than training camp Edvinsson or early/mid season AHL Edvinsson. The player you saw at the end of the season was not what you would have seen had he been on the team all year. It’s easy to assume a prospect who plays good late would play at that level all season, but development isn’t like that. Reality is that it took Edvinsson about 2/3 of the season to reach the level we saw him at with Detroit.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Late season Edvinsson was a very significantly better player than training camp Edvinsson of early/mid season AHL Edvinsson. The player you saw at the end of the season was not what you would have seen had he been on the team all year. It’s easy to assume a prospect who plays good late would play at that level all season, but development isn’t like that. Reality is that it took Edvinsson about 2/3 of the season to reach the level we saw him at with Detroit.

and yet, certain posters around here still say he looked like trash in the preseason. so maybe another season in gr is appropriate?

/s

 

[Sadekuuro]

and yet, certain posters around here still say he looked like trash in the preseason. so maybe another season in gr is appropriate?

/s

On the contrary, he fit right in with most of the seasoned vets

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

I’ve always maintained Yzerman jumped the gun by year. We should have tanked harder for the 2023 draft. Other than the obvious increased potential for Bedard/Michkov, we wouldn’t have signed these atrocious UFA contracts. I know he wanted to install vets for the young guys, but then he never played any young guys other than Seider and Ray.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I’ve always maintained Yzerman jumped the gun by year. We should have tanked harder for the 2023 draft. Other than the obvious increased potential for Bedard/Michkov, we wouldn’t have signed these atrocious UFA contracts. I know he wanted to install vets for the young guys, but then he never played any young guys other than Seider and Ray.

Unlikely we would have drafted Michkov, and we definitely wouldn't have gotten Bedard. Maybe a Ryan Leonard though.

 

[RedWingzz]

He's signing way too many stopgap veterans which keeps delaying NHL time for prospects, thus making the rebuild move in snail speed.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I’ve always maintained Yzerman jumped the gun by year. We should have tanked harder for the 2023 draft. Other than the obvious increased potential for Bedard/Michkov, we wouldn’t have signed these atrocious UFA contracts. I know he wanted to install vets for the young guys, but then he never played any young guys other than Seider and Ray.

Do you know how much he would've had to gut the team to have a shot at out-tanking the Ducks, Blue Jackets, Blackhawks and Sharks? Those teams were 20 points or more below them in the standings. And it's not like the Wings set the league on fire in 2023.

It means blowing up the team to maybe move up 5 spots. All while trying to re-sign Larkin and convince him (as well as the ownership and fans) that this franchise has a future as a Cup contender.

 

[MBauer]

6 years in and Yzerman has developed two NHLers, a 6th and 4th overall from his earliest drafts. They need to be developing multiple prospects into NHLers every season from now on, or we will quickly fall behind.

 

[Retire91]

6 years in and Yzerman has developed two NHLers, a 6th and 4th overall from his earliest drafts. They need to be developing multiple prospects into NHLers every season from now on, or we will quickly fall behind.

Once you have the core, like he has already built, free agent's and trades fill those slots going forward. I am sure we will continue to have a pipeline but the desperation for draft talent days are past.

 

[Retire91]

People are realizing that for Yzerman to have found a way to trade up into the top 3 or 1OA would have actually made the rebuild take longer. We would likely no longer have one of Raymond or Larkin and a handful of valuable picks that would have went the other way. It's nice to have a top league talent but it means nothing when you can't give them a supporting cast. The rebuild is working because Yzerman chose that path that would work.

I also like someone's earlier comment that Yzerman's history in Detroit gives him a lot of flexibility. He probably as 3-4 seasons more than any other GM would get because he has the track record and leverage to say wait and see. If we had another random GM it could have started a revolving door which also hurts rebuilds. I still can't believe anyone has more than minor criticism of this guy.

 

[FMichael]

Once you have the core, like he has already built, free agent's and trades fill those slots going forward. I am sure we will continue to have a pipeline but the desperation for draft talent days are past.

I would agree to an extent...After Larkin (who's not a kid anymore) do we have a legit 70 plus pts centerman? Will Danielson be capable of carrying the load here in a few seasons from now?

 

[saska sault]

3 rookies essentially starting on the roster with Ed, Berggren, and Johansson... 2 have varrying levels of experience (not rookies), still a youth infusion. Next year I'd imagine another 2-3, and it will only continue. Not to mention we have a few guys ready for call ups when inevitably injuries happen.

Some want the entire roster flipped to rookies and think the team will just progress naturally in a positive manner. Ask fanbases of teams that do this yearly how it's worked out the last 10-15 years.

It's not very flashy but it may work out taking the cautious, patient route with integrating guys into the NHL. This year will only be a small taste of what the patience has hopefully produced, and the fact these guys were baptized by fire will only help.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

ESPN portion of article predicting Wings season by Greg Wyshynski,

"The Red Wings have missed the playoffs in every year of Steve Yzerman's tenure as general manager since he was hired in 2019. Their NHL roster skews older, and not just because Patrick Kane is back. The prospect pool has a collection of solid potential NHL contributors and a few standouts, but nothing resembling a franchise player, despite their time spent in the draft lottery. Is the plan to break the playoff drought, give the kids some seasoning and the use that sweet pizza money to lure big-name free agents to augment them? I don't know. Right now, the plan seems like it's produced a bubble team with little hope of upward mobility.

Stevie Y. must be thinking how much easier this was with Steven Stamkos, Victor Hedman, Nikita Kucherov and Andrei Vasilevskiy as your pillars ...

Still, there are people who see Detroit, rather than Buffalo or Ottawa, as the breakthrough team in the Atlantic. A lot would have to break right for that to happen, from the instant impact of Simon Edvinsson, to giant leaps forward from big-contract earners Lucas Raymond and Moritz Seider, to Cam Talbot helping to settle down a goaltending spot that had a cast of thousands auditioning in training camp. The NHL is a better place when the Red Wings are contending. I hope to visit that place again one day."

 

[Retire91]

I would agree to an extent...After Larkin (who's not a kid anymore) do we have a legit 70 plus pts centerman? Will Danielson be capable of carrying the load here in a few seasons from now?

It's a steeper hill to climb but you can win without top tier centers. You just have to have a complete team. I hope we do get that C we are looking for in the pipeline but I don't consider it end game if they are not world beaters. A lot riding on the role Edvinsson plays and how our situation in net pans out as long a 2 out of 3 of these areas land we will be fine IMO.

I also feel like Larkins game has longevity. I can see him being a solid 2C when he gets older. I mean he is only 28,

 

[Henkka]

6 years in and Yzerman has developed two NHLers, a 6th and 4th overall from his earliest drafts. They need to be developing multiple prospects into NHLers every season from now on, or we will quickly fall behind.

We have developed Larkin, Rasmussen, Seider, Raymond, Veleno, Berggren and Edvinsson as NHLrs. Maybe Johansson too.

7-8 players are home-grown.

 

[Gniwder]

He's signing way too many stopgap veterans which keeps delaying NHL time for prospects, thus making the rebuild move in snail speed.

The people complaining about Kasper not making the rosters are the same one who told me Copp's contract isn't an issue. So it's not an issue, lol.

I don't think the other prospects are quite ready yet. Hoping Stevie doesn't sign a bunch of warm bodies again next summer.

 

[FMichael]

It's a steeper hill to climb but you can win without top tier centers. You just have to have a complete team. I hope we do get that C we are looking for in the pipeline but I don't consider it end game if they are not world beaters. A lot riding on the role Edvinsson plays and how our situation in net pans out as long a 2 out of 3 of these areas land we will be fine IMO.

I also feel like Larkins game has longevity. I can see him being a solid 2C when he gets older. I mean he is only 28,

Larkin while damn good - I feel isn’t ‘elite’ and with his penchant for injuries he’ll likely age hard and we’ll need another center who’s as good for the Wings to go anywhere in the playoffs.

I’m hoping Danielson is that guy.

 

[Pavels Dog]

ESPN portion of article predicting Wings season by Greg Wyshynski,

"The Red Wings have missed the playoffs in every year of Steve Yzerman's tenure as general manager since he was hired in 2019. Their NHL roster skews older, and not just because Patrick Kane is back. The prospect pool has a collection of solid potential NHL contributors and a few standouts, but nothing resembling a franchise player, despite their time spent in the draft lottery. Is the plan to break the playoff drought, give the kids some seasoning and the use that sweet pizza money to lure big-name free agents to augment them? I don't know. Right now, the plan seems like it's produced a bubble team with little hope of upward mobility.

Stevie Y. must be thinking how much easier this was with Steven Stamkos, Victor Hedman, Nikita Kucherov and Andrei Vasilevskiy as your pillars ...

Still, there are people who see Detroit, rather than Buffalo or Ottawa, as the breakthrough team in the Atlantic. A lot would have to break right for that to happen, from the instant impact of Simon Edvinsson, to giant leaps forward from big-contract earners Lucas Raymond and Moritz Seider, to Cam Talbot helping to settle down a goaltending spot that had a cast of thousands auditioning in training camp. The NHL is a better place when the Red Wings are contending. I hope to visit that place again one day."

Personally I'm surprised-but-not-surprised that literally everyone is once again predicting that we will suck. Athletic's prediction had us at like 81 points.
I'm not saying there aren't problems with the team but we were maybe the league's most underrated team last season and the fact that no one is re-evaluating for this season makes little sense to me.

Like.. why would we need "giant leaps" from Seider and Raymond when we were already a 91 point team last season? Slightly better goaltending, slightly better defense, slightly worse offense and we're probably a 92-94 point team.

 

[Henkka]

Personally I'm surprised-but-not-surprised that literally everyone is once again predicting that we will suck. Athletic's prediction had us at like 81 points.
I'm not saying there aren't problems with the team but we were maybe the league's most underrated team last season and the fact that no one is re-evaluating for this season makes little sense to me.

Like.. why would we need "giant leaps" from Seider and Raymond when we were already a 91 point team last season? Slightly better goaltending, slightly better defense, slightly worse offense and we're probably a 92-94 point team.

Just like that.

And slightly better Top4 D in Edvinsson.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Just like that.

And slightly better Top4 D in Edvinsson.

That and the kids are more ready to be serious contributors when called upon, last year when the wings needed a center, they brought up Austin...this year it will be Marco, the depth is way better this year.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

We have no young dynamic offensive players other than Raymond. We have to many "hockey players" and no budding stars. We need game changers. Instead of wasting cap on plugs like Copp, Chiarot Holl Petry take all that money and give it to one STAR. If we aren't going to contend for Cups at least we would ice an exciting team. All of our prospects have no star potential other than ASP and maybe Cossa.