Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[ShanahanMan]

One thing people need to understand about the rebuild is that SY has as much if not more job security than any GM in the league. He doesn't have to play by anyone else's time clock, the rebuild game will be over when he says it's over. There has been no announced "five-year plan" or any number of years to reach intermediate or final goals that many other GMs have to reach in order to keep their jobs, but which SY doesn't need to do so he won't. His time clock has an infinite (or at least unknown) number of years and he is using that to max advantage, taking it slow with prospects, keeping expectations down, advising patience, etc. For many fans this can be anywhere from frustrating to intolerable. They want to see tangible results ASAP. They want a known frame of reference to judge him by along the way. Small but steady improvement is okay but boring. A temporary but harmless step backward one year would be unacceptable. Creating a deep prospect pool, keeping options open with limited long-term Cap commitments is nice but not of immediate benefit. People saying there will be a couple of big trades someday are met with the rational response, "Alright, but when?"

In some ways, compared to other rebuilds in the past and present, this rebuild is being conducted in an alternate universe to the normal state of affairs in the NHL. Considering how many "normal" rebuilds fail, this strikes me as a good way to do it, or at the very least interesting. But, it requires an adjustment to a different frame of reference than one is perhaps used to. I'm fine with it and others are too, but it's understandable if some fans can't or don't see the point in looking at things differently.

I’m sorry but having some expectations to make the playoffs five years into a rebuild is more than reasonable and not “asap”.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

I’m sorry but having some expectations to make the playoffs five years into a rebuild is more than reasonable and not “asap”.

You're wrong of course but that's fine. I wouldn't expect you to understand the point.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

One thing people need to understand about the rebuild is that SY has as much if not more job security than any GM in the league. He doesn't have to play by anyone else's time clock, the rebuild game will be over when he says it's over. There has been no announced "five-year plan" or any number of years to reach intermediate or final goals that many other GMs have to reach in order to keep their jobs, but which SY doesn't need to do so he won't. His time clock has an infinite (or at least unknown) number of years and he is using that to max advantage, taking it slow with prospects, keeping expectations down, advising patience, etc. For many fans this can be anywhere from frustrating to intolerable. They want to see tangible results ASAP. They want a known frame of reference to judge him by along the way. Small but steady improvement is okay but boring. A temporary but harmless step backward one year would be unacceptable. Creating a deep prospect pool, keeping options open with limited long-term Cap commitments is nice but not of immediate benefit. People saying there will be a couple of big trades someday are met with the rational response, "Alright, but when?"

In some ways, compared to other rebuilds in the past and present, this rebuild is being conducted in an alternate universe to the normal state of affairs in the NHL. Considering how many "normal" rebuilds fail, this strikes me as a good way to do it, or at the very least interesting. But, it requires an adjustment to a different frame of reference than one is perhaps used to. I'm fine with it and others are too, but it's understandable if some fans can't or don't see the point in looking at things differently.

i think the copp signing was yzerman's signal of when his windows starts. he had just drafted kasper, no one except for core players are signed past the expiration of copp's contract (except compher has 1 year left), and it budgets an appropriate amount of development time for his top picks.

over the next three years i see us making the playoffs a couple times, most of kasper, danielson, cossa, mbn, asp, mazur, buchelnikov, wallinder, soderblom, lombardi, etc will have made the team, gained nhl experience and by 27-28 will be ready to seriously contend.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

i think the copp signing was yzerman's signal of when his windows starts. he had just drafted kasper, no one except for core players are signed past the expiration of copp's contract (except compher has 1 year left), and it budgets an appropriate amount of development time for his top picks.

over the next three years i see us making the playoffs a couple times, most of kasper, danielson, cossa, mbn, asp, mazur, buchelnikov, wallinder, soderblom, lombardi, etc will have made the team, gained nhl experience and by 27-28 will be ready to seriously contend.

It's going to take a few years, I agree. Wings have two players drafted by Yzerman with 200 GP. When four or five more have 150-plus games under their belt, we might be ready to do something significant. There's going to be a huge roster turnover the next 2-3 years, maybe only 6-8 players remaining from this year's team for the 27-28 season. That's a lot of uncertainty to be confident of anything yet but if the first-rounders hit we should be in good shape.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Never works like that, "lol". Edvinsson was never given a fair chance to beat them out last year. Or did you think Edvinsson was worse than Holl or Petry last year's pre-season? To me it was clear he should have "beat" them.

Oh yeah must be Yzerman thinking yeah I'm gonna hold out prospect back on purpose. Truth of the matter is Ed looks good one game and unprofessional another. That's what your trying to weed out. Who care now Eds on it this year.

 

[odin1981]

Draper and Lalonde aren’t helping things

Lalonde I definitely agree with. But Draper can't really be judged until his first few drafts start getting integrated into the lineup.

 

[FissionFire]

Yzerman’s biggest failing in the rebuild was not selling his soul for a 1OA franchise player. Basically he has done everything fine that is within his power and the only better luck would have made any significant difference.

 

[Henkka]

Yzerman’s biggest failing in the rebuild was not selling his soul for a 1OA franchise player. Basically he has done everything fine that is within his power and the only better luck would have made any significant difference.

But you can't quarantee 1OA franchise player. It's still a freaking lottery.

Most probably you get the damn 4th or 3rd overall, when you are league-worst. Like we did with Yzerman.

No one should build on that.

 

[Indrid Cold]

I'm starting to think the Wings are on a proper timeline without getting lottery luck. Of course, snagging a 1OA would accelerate things, but that didn't happen.

 

[izlez]

Is Lagesson being waived just standard operating procedure for a guy we signed to be an AHLer or is that a sign that something isn't going as planned with hiim?

 

[Winger98]

I'm starting to think the Wings are on a proper timeline without getting lottery luck. Of course, snagging a 1OA would accelerate things, but that didn't happen.

Even without a 1OA I wouldn't be surprised to look back and see Yzerman has grabbed the a top5 guy from several of his drafts.

 

[saska sault]

Is Lagesson being waived just standard operating procedure for a guy we signed to be an AHLer or is that a sign that something isn't going as planned with hiim?

Think that was always the plan. If he got claimed, that was part of the risk but he was always a depth option.

 

[Henkka]

Even without a 1OA I wouldn't be surprised to look back and see Yzerman has grabbed the a top5 guy from several of his drafts.

Buffalo Sabres have won the lottery 3 times at at 2015 (2nd overall), 2018 (1st overall) and 2021 (1st overall). They have been a bit of lucky when considering the probabilities.

On those seasons they were league worst team at 2015, 2018, 2021 seasons. they tanked hard. On seasons between, they have been ~6th-8th worst.

And they still are out of the playoffs team, after some rise towards the middle of the pack on latest seasons 2022 to 2023-24.

What did they get after three full tanking season?

- Larkin level Center (Eichel, 2nd overall)
- Seider level defenceman (Power/Dahlin, 1st overall)
- Edvinsson level defenceman (Power/Dahlin, 1st overall)

No difference between 15th, 6th and 6th overalls.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

As soon as Holl (waived) Copp, Petry and Chiarot are off this team we should be substantially better assuming that we don't double down on more horrible deals like these...

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

He keeps making the same shitty roster construction decisions Ken holland made. Not as bad but it’s the same exact issue we had then. It’s like I live in the twilight zone. He’s just not giving out complete albatross contracts. Bad contracts for sure but nothing Nielsen or abdelkader level bad. I like his drafting a lot but roster construction has flat out sucked. I don’t see how anyone can deny that. Edvinsson being blocked from the roster last year because of shit contracts yzerman gave out likely cost us a playoff spot. If the team regresses this year he should be grilled on why he (likely) added players like Watson instead of skilled players like kasper who actually make the team better.

 

[Winger98]

As soon as Holl (waived) Copp, Petry and Chiarot are off this team we should be substantially better assuming that we don't double down on more horrible deals like these...

yes, because oddly enough their contracts run out at roughly the time we expected/hoped that kids like Danielson, Kaspar, Wallander, ASP, etc. are not only making the team but actually contributing.

 

[Winger98]

He keeps making the same shitty roster construction decisions Ken holland made. He’s just not giving out complete albatross contracts. Bad contracts for sure but nothing nielsen or abdelkader level bad. I like his drafting but roster construction has flat out sucked. I don’t see how anyone can deny that. Edvinsson being blocked from the roster last year because of shit contracts yzerman gave out likely cost us a playoff spot. If the team regresses this year he should be grilled on why he (likely) added players like Watson instead of skilled players like kasper who actually make the team better.

If they wanted Edvinsson in Detroit in November they could have made the roster room. They had the cap space to simply waive someone if they wanted to.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

If they wanted Edvinsson in Detroit in November they could have made the roster room. They had the cap space to simply waive someone if they wanted to.

They likely didnt want to waive someone they gave a decent sized contract to, which is why we saw so long for holl to be waived. But okay assuming they would have done this, the point remains the same, why wasn’t a player who was good enough to be top 4D on our roster when it was most important late in the season, on our team making it better the whole year? His roster construction still sucks either option you look at.

 

[Winger98]

They likely didnt want to waive someone they gave a decent sized contract to, which is why we saw so long for holl to be waived. But okay assuming they would have done this, the point remains the same, why wasn’t a player who was good enough to be top 4D on our roster when it was most important late in the season, on our team making it better the whole year? His roster construction still sucks either option you look at.

Because Yzerman's main concern was doing what he thought was best for Ed's development would be my guess. Guy was coming off shoulder surgery, and didn't exactly set the world on fire the year before. Ed came in, had a good camp, then went to GR and built on it and got better - which is what you want from the kids.

If the wings truly believe that how they are running things are best for the development of their prospects - even if it hurts the big club in the immediate future - I'm fine with that and support it.

 

[dalem177]

I know it's a discussion forum, but... it was a technical tiebreaker. One less bad game, one less Debrincat pipe-ring, and they were in. If they'd gotten in, would y'all still be yelling for heads?

 

[izlez]

They likely didnt want to waive someone they gave a decent sized contract to, which is why we saw so long for holl to be waived. But okay assuming they would have done this, the point remains the same, why wasn’t a player who was good enough to be top 4D on our roster when it was most important late in the season, on our team making it better the whole year? His roster construction still sucks either option you look at.

Because he's a kid who is progressing and got better throughout the year and wasn't good enough at the beginning of the year

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Because Yzerman's main concern was doing what he thought was best for Ed's development would be my guess. Guy was coming off shoulder surgery, and didn't exactly set the world on fire the year before. Ed came in, had a good camp, then went to GR and built on it and got better - which is what you want from the kids.

If the wings truly believe that how they are running things are best for the development of their prospects - even if it hurts the big club in the immediate future - I'm fine with that and support it.

They preach 2 different narratives at the same time. Either you want to make the playoffs and ice the best roster, or you’re icing some mid tier players to just waste time until you feel that the prospects are fully developed. Either way they need to commit to 1 fully and not half ass either of them.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Because he's a kid who is progressing and got better throughout the year and wasn't good enough at the beginning of the year

Folks forget he had a 2 games call up in late December I think, if he was truly top ready, he would have stuck around then, when he was deemed ready in March, he came back up and stayed, barring major regress or injury, he is up to stay.

 

[jaster]

They preach 2 different narratives at the same time. Either you want to make the playoffs and ice the best roster, or you’re icing some mid tier players to just waste time until you feel that the prospects are fully developed. Either way they need to commit to 1 fully and not half ass either of them.

I don't see any half-assing. I see them developing the prospects in a way that maximizes their impact for a time when our actual competitive window should be. In the meantime, we fill out the roster with all these guys on short- and middle-term contracts. If we make the playoffs, great, but I'm pretty sure Yzerman has basically said his priority is to build a winner, not just scrape into the playoffs as soon as possible at the cost of building an actual competitive team.

Like his approach or not, Yzerman has been consistent.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I know it's a discussion forum, but... it was a technical tiebreaker. One less bad game, one less Debrincat pipe-ring, and they were in. If they'd gotten in, would y'all still be yelling for heads?

It’s sweet you’re pretending like you don’t know the answer to that one.