Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[DoMakc]

Ehhhh I get what you are saying. But I don't feel like it fully evaluates into the management of the Varana trade. At the time Varana was the centerpiece of that trade and at the time Yzerman is not knowing that this pick would be a part of his trade up for for the Cossa pick. I am high on Cossa I see him working out quite well but even so, getting zero value from Varana himself left a big hole.

So at the moment it's Mantha for Buchnevich, and sort of Cossa.

There is so much wrong with this post, i'm not sure where to start. At least we didn't get Vaclav Varada with Buchnevich out of this trade.

 

[Retire91]

There is so much wrong with this post, i'm not sure where to start. At least we didn't get Vaclav Varada with Buchnevich out of this trade.

huh?

 

[Gniwder]

huh?

If Mantha was important, the team could have signed him this offseason. We're talking about a guy on a 1 yr $3.5M contract. He was traded for a 2nd and 4th last season. Less than what Stevie got.

 

[Retire91]

If Mantha was important, the team could have signed him this offseason. We're talking about a guy on a 1 yr $3.5M contract. He was traded for a 2nd and 4th last season. Less than what Stevie got.

At the time of the trade Mantha was one of the best wingers on the market

 

[norrisnick]

At the time of the trade Mantha was one of the best wingers on the market

And two summers ago Andrew Copp was one of the best centers on the market.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

He went wrong by handing out holland esque contracts that are holding the team back

 

[ShanahanMan]

And two summers ago Andrew Copp was one of the best centers on the market.

According to what ranking? I remember the Wings getting an F grade from most outlets by signing both him and Chiraot. They were pretty on point.

 

[norrisnick]

According to what ranking? I remember the Wings getting an F grade from most outlets by signing both him and Chiraot. They were pretty on point.

By looking at the centers that were on the market. It was Kadri, Copp, Trocheck and then massive projects. Kadri and Trocheck signed 7 year deals. I don't think anyone here would be dancing in the streets if they ended up here with those deals. So it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other. I'm sure the very next post will be someone clamoring for Trocheck, but he wouldn't be stapled to Panarin's hip here in Detroit...

Also the NYT/Athletic gave the Wings an A-

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3426849/2022/07/16/nhl-free-agency-2022-team-grades/

ESPN dubbed them Winners

Winners and losers of Day 1 of NHL free agency, plus the best remaining players

The Red Wings and Hurricanes are among the teams which did well, while the Flyers and others did ... not so well. We digest the opening round of deals here.

www.espn.com

 

[SirloinUB]

By looking at the centers that were on the market. It was Kadri, Copp, Trocheck and then massive projects. Kadri and Trocheck signed 7 year deals. I don't think anyone here would be dancing in the streets if they ended up here with those deals. So it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other. I'm sure the very next post will be someone clamoring for Trocheck, but he wouldn't be stapled to Panarin's hip here in Detroit...

Also the NYT/Athletic gave the Wings an A-

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3426849/2022/07/16/nhl-free-agency-2022-team-grades/

ESPN dubbed them Winners

Winners and losers of Day 1 of NHL free agency, plus the best remaining players

The Red Wings and Hurricanes are among the teams which did well, while the Flyers and others did ... not so well. We digest the opening round of deals here.

www.espn.com

It is also important to note that Copp is younger than both Trochek and Kadri too.

Detroit will be paying Copp until his 33 year old season. Trochek and Kadri are signed through 35 and 37 respectively.

Lastly, Detroit was operating below the cap floor that summer and NEEDED to sign some guys one way or the other.

Ultimately it was an underwhelming UFA class at a time when Detroit was required to spend. All things considered Yzerman arguably made the best move there.

The only other option I would have liked to see considered was to potentially take on cap dumps for picks but arguably that could have meant someone even worse than Copp or Chairot.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It is also important to note that Copp is younger than both Trochek and Kadri too.

Detroit will be paying Copp until his 33 year old season. Trochek and Kadri are signed through 35 and 37 respectively.

Lastly, Detroit was operating below the cap floor that summer and NEEDED to sign some guys one way or the other.

Ultimately it was an underwhelming UFA class at a time when Detroit was required to spend. All things considered Yzerman arguably made the best move there.

The only other option I would have liked to see considered was to potentially take on cap dumps for picks but arguably that could have meant someone even worse than Copp or Chairot.

And Trotchek was never coming to Detroit.

After years of being a very good team some fans seem to be operating under the assumption that everyone still wants to play for the Wings. Those days are gone.

Though it should be getting easier to attract free agents now compared to when they were coming off a 74 point season.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

And Trotchek was never coming to Detroit.

After years of being a very good team some fans seem to be operating under the assumption that everyone still wants to play for the Wings. Those days are gone.

Though it should be getting easier to attract free agents now compared to when they were coming off a 74 point season.

Shhh. Don't over explain the obvious to these mouth breathers. Might confuse them during their NHL 25 gm mode.

 

[StreetHawk]

And Trotchek was never coming to Detroit.

After years of being a very good team some fans seem to be operating under the assumption that everyone still wants to play for the Wings. Those days are gone.

Though it should be getting easier to attract free agents now compared to when they were coming off a 74 point season.

Yep, the days of adding Hull, Hasek, Robitaille are long gone. Detroit as a city has its limited appeal to free agents. It's not a no income tax state, nor what most would say a glamour city like NY, Bos, Chi, LA, etc.

I don't think Det was going to out tank Chi, SJ, Ana, CBJ the past couple of seasons even without their free agent signings. Larkin, Raymond, Seider probably still able to keep Detroit ahead of those clubs. Upgrading Danielson to pick 5/6 in 2023 or their most recent pick into a 5-7 pick probably doesn't move the needle that drastically.

Something has to hit big for them. Be it a 2nd rounder onwards who is their version of Point/Cernak etc. or they trade for someone, Detroit needs another impact player, particularly up front.

With any GM of a rebuilding club, always have to wonder about pressure from ownership group. Not Yzerman's fault, but Det has missed the PO since 16/17 season (3 seasons before he took over). So, 8 seasons now.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Yep, the days of adding Hull, Hasek, Robitaille are long gone. Detroit as a city has its limited appeal to free agents. It's not a no income tax state, nor what most would say a glamour city like NY, Bos, Chi, LA, etc.

I don't think Det was going to out tank Chi, SJ, Ana, CBJ the past couple of seasons even without their free agent signings. Larkin, Raymond, Seider probably still able to keep Detroit ahead of those clubs. Upgrading Danielson to pick 5/6 in 2023 or their most recent pick into a 5-7 pick probably doesn't move the needle that drastically.

Something has to hit big for them. Be it a 2nd rounder onwards who is their version of Point/Cernak etc. or they trade for someone, Detroit needs another impact player, particularly up front.

With any GM of a rebuilding club, always have to wonder about pressure from ownership group. Not Yzerman's fault, but Det has missed the PO since 16/17 season (3 seasons before he took over). So, 8 seasons now.

This makes me sad.

 

[ricky0034]

And Trotchek was never coming to Detroit.

After years of being a very good team some fans seem to be operating under the assumption that everyone still wants to play for the Wings. Those days are gone.

Though it should be getting easier to attract free agents now compared to when they were coming off a 74 point season.

I mean assuming that he definitely wouldn't have is just as silly as assuming that he definitely would have

did the Wings even try to sign him? i've certainly never seen any reports that they did

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Ugh not Trochek again.

I'd pick someone like Horvat over that.

 

[norrisnick]

Trocheck or Copp is whatever. The difference is Panarin and that was never going to happen.

 

[ricky0034]

here's a fresh new take i've never seen before for everyone that thinks Trocheck is stale

Filip Gustavsson has more goals so far this year than Raymond and Kane combined, the Wings should have traded for him to be a 1st line Winger

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I mean assuming that he definitely wouldn't have is just as silly as assuming that he definitely would have

did the Wings even try to sign him? i've certainly never seen any reports that they did

No it isn't. He got a 7-year deal to play for a very good Rangers team and said of the few teams he looked at, they were his top choice. Do you really think Detroit was one of those other few teams? Yzerman wasn't going to give him 7 years and the Wings aren't as attractive of a destination as the Rangers.

He was never going to sign in Detroit.

And how often do you see reports about players teams tried to sign but didn't?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Giving long contracts to average NHL players.

 

[ricky0034]

No it isn't. He got a 7-year deal to play for a very good Rangers team and said of the few teams he looked at, they were his top choice. Do you really think Detroit was one of those other few teams? Yzerman wasn't going to give him 7 years and the Wings aren't as attractive of a destination as the Rangers.

we have no way of knowing whether Detroit was one of those other few teams

we also have no way of knowing whether if they weren't it was because he wasn't interested or if it was because Detroit wasn't interested or both

and as for that last part it's just speculation on your part but if Yzerman wasn't willing to give him 7 years when he was willing to give Copp 5 at the same money I would classify that as the Wings not being very interested to be honest

And how often do you see reports about players teams tried to sign but didn't?

this is a weird question because I guess my answer here is most free agents with any sort of actual profile? there's usually reports of multiple interested teams for these things and even just the Wings specifically there's usually a couple players that they're reportedly interested in that doesn't end up actually happening basically every year

 

[StreetHawk]

No it isn't. He got a 7-year deal to play for a very good Rangers team and said of the few teams he looked at, they were his top choice. Do you really think Detroit was one of those other few teams? Yzerman wasn't going to give him 7 years and the Wings aren't as attractive of a destination as the Rangers.

He was never going to sign in Detroit.

And how often do you see reports about players teams tried to sign but didn't?

I would agree. Players with options don’t typically sign with the non good teams. Unless they get something they can’t say no to. Was Detroit going to blow him away with an offer?

That’s always been the challenge of a rebuild. Selling players off, being a bad club thus drafting high are only one part. Challenge is convincing players to sign to help turn the club around. And that is going to cost a premium in either dollars or term. Not going to get a discount as a rebuilding club from ufas.

And if you have options why go to a club that you are going to lose more than you win for the first 2-3 years of your contract?

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

I love Steve and still believe in his ability to get this team where it needs to be. We waited the long game with him as a player and it paid off, I am willing to do it again with him as GM.

That is not to say some moves haven't worked out great. Yeah, he has been very hit and miss in FA, with a lean more towards miss. But I kinda expected something like that, no GM bats 1.000 there.

But the situation that is pissing me off more and more each day is what all went down with Jake Walman. I know a lot of blame has centered around something Jake did to upset the org around the time he got benched, which i am guessing Jake probably was really upset that he was the one to get scratched when Ed got called up and not one of our other worse defensemen, so he probably handled that demotion poorly and I don't blame him if that was the case. But, Sharks fans are already in love with him. I loved his game. He was a double digit goal scorer and blocked a lot of shots. If we still had him right now, we would have Andrew Gibson still in our prospect pool and probably not enough cap space to waste on that bum Gustafsson and probably one of Motte or Fischer not signed.

Simply put, the Wings cannot have that kind of problem ever again and handle it this way. Walman, if he had to go, should not have required paying assets to remove him. Nothing in his overall play had him valued as that much of a negative asset with his modest cap hit. This is death to a rebuilding team to do this. I am still firmly in the belief he was not shopped to all the GMs in the league properly, someone would have taken him and not required paying to do it. Totally speculative, but I think he was sent to the worst team in the NHL as punishment and Steve had no problem paying the price to do it.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If we still had him right now, we would have Andrew Gibson still in our prospect pool

Gibson has started the season with 1 point in 7 games. Just as an FYI..

 

[Henkka]

But the situation that is pissing me off more and more each day is what all went down with Jake Walman. I know a lot of blame has centered around something Jake did to upset the org around the time he got benched, which i am guessing Jake probably was really upset that he was the one to get scratched when Ed got called up and not one of our other worse defensemen, so he probably handled that demotion poorly and I don't blame him if that was the case. But, Sharks fans are already in love with him. I loved his game. He was a double digit goal scorer and blocked a lot of shots. If we still had him right now, we would have Andrew Gibson still in our prospect pool and probably not enough cap space to waste on that bum Gustafsson and probably one of Motte or Fischer not signed.

Simply put, the Wings cannot have that kind of problem ever again and handle it this way. Walman, if he had to go, should not have required paying assets to remove him. Nothing in his overall play had him valued as that much of a negative asset with his modest cap hit. This is death to a rebuilding team to do this. I am still firmly in the belief he was not shopped to all the GMs in the league properly, someone would have taken him and not required paying to do it. Totally speculative, but I think he was sent to the worst team in the NHL as punishment and Steve had no problem paying the price to do it.

Just get over it.

The lockerroom spirit is more important than any single player or contract.

Something happened, and we in here really don't know what. But the reaction was so big, that we can expect, it wasn't a minor thing.

Vrana and Walman have been examples what Yzerman will not want to have. Maybe Zadina too. It's a clear message.

The direction is perfectionism as a pro like Yzerman did he see all the good and bad examples on his player career and glory days. He will pretty much know it best, from Probert to Lidström. The scale is quite wide.

Bad apples will go and good ones will be brought in. One-by-one.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

I mean assuming that he definitely wouldn't have is just as silly as assuming that he definitely would have

did the Wings even try to sign him? i've certainly never seen any reports that they did

He took a pay cut to play for a contender. We would have got him if we offered the kadri deal to him. Which is not something yzerman wants to do. 7 year deals aren't his thing unless it's homegrown players.