What's Treliving first deal going to be?

[WillNy29]

You are not wrong but two wrongs do not make a right. I still take 29 and 97 over 16 and 34 and a declining JT.

That's fine and I'm not arguing that I'm just trying to point out that we're quick to label all of these other guys as gamers but when you dig into it they have just as many playoff failures.

IIRC Oilers were not swept this year. You are right both teams deserve criticism but this is a Leafs board. Why bring up the Oilers ? Bruins blowing a 3-1 lead to Florida does not make me feel better about losing to Florida.

they got swept last year and the year before but the point I was making was people keep outlining all of these gamers and apparently none of our players are. Ive read this about Pastrnak or the oilers duo or Kempe but when I look at it objectively none of them has won (Pastrnak was getting roasted in the bruins fan circles, but we'd trade all of our guys for Pasternak because perceive him to be a gamer)

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe try not being such a homer
They don't lose because their stars can't play playoff hockey and won't go to the net.

View attachment 715807

It would be interesting to see their stats broken into games 1 - 4, 5 - 8 and 9 - 12

 

[WillNy29]

It would be interesting to see their stats broken into games 1 - 4, 5 - 8 and 9 - 12

no we only do that for Marner

 

[ToneDog]

It would be interesting to see their stats broken into games 1 - 4, 5 - 8 and 9 - 12

Both teams have their warts. 29 and 97 did not produce in the last half of the Vegas series. No idea why but if I were to guess, I'd say they ran out of gas after running into a Vegas team that probably has the hardest defense to penetrate. Florida is getting a taste. Vegas is not allowing what Toronto and Carolina allowed the Panther forwards to get away with in front of their net.

 

[3blizzard4]

LOL. Facts are facts. You slag the Oilers to defend Leafs failures. 16 and 34 can't touch 29 and 97 in the regular season or the playoffs. 34 is no longer close to 97. Ship sailed.

100% factual! Agree. 29 and 97 are on a different planet. Lets not even compare. Apples and oranges.

 

[WillNy29]

Both teams have their warts. 29 and 97 did not produce in the last half of the Vegas series. No idea why but if I were to guess, I'd say they ran out of gas after running into a Vegas team that probably has the hardest defense to penetrate. Florida is getting a taste. Vegas is not allowing what Toronto and Carolina allowed the Panther forwards to get away with in front of their net.

we've had 8 years of sample sizes now they keep running out of gas they've only gotten out of the first round 3 times and have missed the playoffs 3 times altogether. Maybe they shouldn't be paid so much so they can build a team around them or maybe their flawed and not playoff players.

see how that sounds?

 

[ACC1224]

Both teams have their warts. 29 and 97 did not produce in the last half of the Vegas series. No idea why but if I were to guess, I'd say they ran out of gas after running into a Vegas team that probably has the hardest defense to penetrate. Florida is getting a taste. Vegas is not allowing what Toronto and Carolina allowed the Panther forwards to get away with in front of their net.

For sure, every team has reasons why they lose.

 

[WillNy29]

100% factual! Agree. 29 and 97 are on a different planet. Lets not even compare. Apples and oranges.

and yet they failed and vanished in the final 4 games of their playoffs

For sure, every team has reasons why they lose.

over here we call those excuses

 

[ToneDog]

we've had 8 years of sample sizes now they keep running out of gas they've only gotten out of the first round 3 times and have missed the playoffs 3 times altogether. Maybe they shouldn't be paid so much so they can build a team around them or maybe their flawed and not playoff players.

see how that sounds?

McD is the best player on the planet and Drai has a cap hit of 8.5m. They are not the problem IMO. Nurse @ 9.5m, a goalie who can't make a save, a thin defense and forward depth are their problems.

Having said that, 29 and 97 could learn to play some D. LOL.

 

[Notsince67]

Okay, I get that, but where do you draw the line when you consider not being able to fill glaring needs at other positions due to cap constraints (too much $ being spent in one area or on just a few players)?

I draw the line at kerfoot, holl an murray first. I definitely won't overpay Bunting.
With over 20MM cap after Murray is gone, I really dont think it's time to shred cap at the expense of our best players. Fill out the roster properly. Schenn gives us 7 D. Don't overpay for depth. There is plenty of cap right now. Cap is likely 88mm for 2024 from 83.5mm this coming year.

 

[WillNy29]

McD is the best player on the planet and Drai has a cap hit of 8.5m. They are not the problem IMO. Nurse @ 9.5m, a goalie who can't make a save, a thin defense and forward depth are their problems.

Having said that, 29 and 97 could learn to play some D. LOL.

yes so we agree that there are reasons that teams lose beyond these things we are concocting in our heads to chase players out of town because we are angry and want revenge.

I think we do need to allocate our cap better but I don't think we do that trading away our 1C and getting worse.

Dubas did some good and ok things but man he f***ed up a lot of things too

 

[Zur En Arrh]

You are not wrong but two wrongs do not make a right. I still take 29 and 97 over 16 and 34 and a declining JT.

29 is just 97s backpack

 

[ToneDog]

yes so we agree that there are reasons that teams lose beyond these things we are concocting in our heads to chase players out of town because we are angry and want revenge.

I think we do need to allocate our cap better but I don't think we do that trading away our 1C and getting worse.

Dubas did some good and ok things but man he f***ed up a lot of things too

Never been on the trade Matty train but not sure if running back the same 4 forwards is the right move. If we do, my philosophy would be to surround them with playoff warriors and spread 16, 34, 88 and 91 across 3 lines.

 

[therealkoho]

To Toronto-
Kempe
Clarke

How is that hating the Leafs? You're getting a legit #1 goaltender who is top 5 in the league, and a top 6 winger who can score with size.

Sure it sucks losing Nylander but odds are we won't be able to afford him unless with move one of Marner or Matthews. As for Robertson, the guy just can't stay healthy and when he has been, he hasn't really impressed me much outside that one game against Dallas this past year. Getting out of the Murray contract is great in itself and is why I included the 28th pick. Winnipeg is giving up their top 5 goalie and a top 6 winger, it's not going to be free.

It's an overpay, especially the 28th overall. Atm the Leafs are scraping the bottom on prospects, because of the former GMs insistence on moving picks out for very little return in the way of playoff success. They're going to need to restock the cupboards and it starts with that 1st. Murray is an anchor no doubt, but if he gets hurt(odds on he will) he'll look great on the LTIR list and that pick which could end up as a productive player will serve the team a lot better.

It should always big picture and in many ways the former GM didn't always see it.

 

[WillNy29]

Never been on the trade Matty train but not sure if running back the same 4 forwards is the right move. If we do, my philosophy would be to surround them with playoff warriors and spread 16, 34, 88 and 91 across 3 lines.

we also need to change the style we play. We need to have the ability to play north-south with speed. We used to be fast and we actually caused teams problems in the playoffs when we shouldn't have been a playoff team. Tell Marner to get in the gym and work with a speed skating coach or trade him.

we need mobile two way defensemen and just speed grit and skill all throughout the line up; it feels like we over compensate one way or the other every season. I felt we were two slow and east west this year. If I am being honest I thought last year if we win game 6 or 7 we likely make a run because that team was actually really good but was just let down by goaltending

 

[Nineteen67]

the team that made it as far as the leafs this year and gets swept like its going out of style?

Like I said, it’s a long shot.

I pick Ottawa because they are at least on the right path for now.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I draw the line at kerfoot, holl an murray first. I definitely won't overpay Bunting.
With over 20MM cap after Murray is gone, I really dont think it's time to shred cap at the expense of our best players. Fill out the roster properly. Schenn gives us 7 D. Don't overpay for depth. There is plenty of cap right now. Cap is likely 88mm for 2024 from 83.5mm this coming year.

I agree with your first part, but how are we getting rid of Murray: using a draft pick, buying him out, convincing him to go on LTIR? I can’t imagine we can trade him without having to sweeten the pot.
We are gambling on our d if we’re not trading for someone (preferably a top 2), or signing someone in free agency (not sure if there’s anyone out there). Gio and Holl were awful down the stretch and throughout the playoffs, Brodie wasn’t far behind. Schenn was great with Rielly, but he can’t be his partner for the majority of the regular season. Will Lily finally emerge as a legitimate top 4 dman? That’s quite a few question marks there.
We need another top 2 LW and C, besides filling out the bottom 6.
How far will $20 million take us?

 

[Notsince67]

I agree with your first part, but how are we getting rid of Murray: using a draft pick, buying him out, convincing him to go on LTIR? I can’t imagine we can trade him without having to sweeten the pot.
We are gambling on our d if we’re not trading for someone (preferably a top 2), or signing someone in free agency (not sure if there’s anyone out there). Gio and Holl were awful down the stretch and throughout the playoffs, Brodie wasn’t far behind. Schenn was great with Rielly, but he can’t be his partner for the majority of the regular season. Will Lily finally emerge as a legitimate top 4 dman? That’s quite a few question marks there.
We need another top 2 LW and C, besides filling out the bottom 6.
How far will $20 million take us?

I don't know who is available. Some people called Mccabe a top 4 D but I disagree. He is cheap for what he offers though.
I do agree if the team wants a superstar D, it will have to trade one of the core. Don't think we need one.

Barring a superstar D, we are looking at moving a D and a pick or 2 for someone decent. Team doesn't need 8 dmen. The D would have to be Brodie as the other ones are not replaceable as they are young and cost contained ...unless Niemela is available.
If we want to trade the young cost contained guys for a D, it kind of screws us for the future.

Lets revisit trading a core member for a superstar again....one of the young guys isnt going to play in the NHL unless he is traded anyways. You are trading a core member to cost contain while moving a cost contained asset. Kind of counter intuitive. Maybe that is ok.
Personally, unless you are getting a guy like Quinn Hughes for Marner, I wouldn't do it
Unless you are getting a guy like Moritz Seider for Nylander (not a top 4 D yet IMO but will be), I wouldn't do it.
Unless you are getting Cale Makar for Matthews, I wouldn't do it.
People can laugh at my ask and say it isn't realistic but getting any of our guys for a bucket of pucks to just free cap is just dumb. These kind of players do not fall from trees.
Then you need to move one of your young guys

 

[mydnyte]

100% factual! Agree. 29 and 97 are on a different planet. Lets not even compare. Apples and oranges.

doesnt that then make their losses ultimately WORSE!

 

[mydnyte]

Both teams have their warts. 29 and 97 did not produce in the last half of the Vegas series. No idea why but if I were to guess, I'd say they ran out of gas after running into a Vegas team that probably has the hardest defense to penetrate. Florida is getting a taste. Vegas is not allowing what Toronto and Carolina allowed the Panther forwards to get away with in front of their net.

if either of the Oilers players paid 1/2 as much attention to the defensive side of the game that they do the offence, they would be in the finals.
JT sucks defensively, but Drais may be even worse, and McD doesnt help in his zone, unless he has the puck, and is rushing to offense.
Matthews on the other hand, sacrificed a ton of offence to be back checking all the time, and if he didnt, our crappy defense would have been even more exposed for as bad as they really are
our 'team' defense is far superior to the Oilers, and if the Oilers ever buy into team defense, they can be a dynasty team.

 

[trellaine201]

Carter Hart! Brad loves to build from the goalie out. He grabbed Jacob last time. Let’s go.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

To Toronto-
Kempe
Clarke

How is that hating the Leafs? You're getting a legit #1 goaltender who is top 5 in the league, and a top 6 winger who can score with size.

Sure it sucks losing Nylander but odds are we won't be able to afford him unless with move one of Marner or Matthews. As for Robertson, the guy just can't stay healthy and when he has been, he hasn't really impressed me much outside that one game against Dallas this past year. Getting out of the Murray contract is great in itself and is why I included the 28th pick. Winnipeg is giving up their top 5 goalie and a top 6 winger, it's not going to be free.

I'm assuming that's Brandt Clarke, in which case he's a D man what are you talking about #1 goalie there is no goalie there.

 

[3blizzard4]

doesnt that then make their losses ultimately WORSE!

Agree.

They are amazing players. Issue is, they are the only players on that team.

Look up stats on the amount of offence these two produce compared of the rest of the team. Its mind boggling.

Leafs issue is we have top guys up front paid heavily and fringe players to compliment them.

Shut down Marner and Matthews wilts.

McDavid will be a threat everytime whether he scores or not.

 

[hullsy47]

To be clear I'm not counting contract extensions. I'm talking about trades and UFA signings.

I think we see some BIG changes on defense, I think there is a deal with Calgary that will see either Tanev, Andersson Hanifin or perhaps Wegar land in Toronto, I acknowledge Wegar would be tough because of the money but Treliving brought him to Calgary that's his guy so it's possible.

I also wonder about Connor Murphy in Chicago.

In free agency I he targets Carson Soucy, and he should Soucy, Matt Dumba because he's targeted him before, or Brian Doumulin.

I think we see atleast 2 D men brought in.

Up front I wonder if he targets Alex Killorn, reason being is Treliving likes the gritty skilled forwards, case in point Blake Coleman.

I think Killorn has 3 years left in him.

The problem is I think he gets 5 years.

I could be convinced to go to 4 years knowing the last year is probably going to be rough.

I have to admit I wouldn't hate it.

I also wonder about Max Domi, Dubas didn't seem interested but Treliving might be.

He needs to replace ROR to so I wonder about J Staal or the health of Towes.

I think big changes are coming.

For those that want a retool, I think you will get it.

His first deal is to not deal anyone .hes running it back
In 2 years Tannenbaum get s the board to name him president
Then they tear it down losing both mathews and marner after another second round collapse

 

[tmlms13]

Nylander + Samsonov Rights
for
Hellebuyck + PLD Rights

Probably need to offer more though and come with a guarantee PLD signs.

Video game GM'ing but who knows. Can't hurt to ask.