What would you have done?

[Folignos Helmet]

I would have waited out the Sens on Murray. Force them to buy him out and sign him cheap.
If that didn’t happen my fall back would be to trade something minimal for Reimer.
If he isn’t on the block then Sign Comrie or Halak.
And if those fell through I would have waited it out to camp and grabbed a waiver goalie like whichever goalie the Sharks, Knights or Columbus try to send down.
Worst case you go Samsonov and Kallgren/Woll and see how much time that buys you to address in season.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I would have waited out the Sens on Murray.

There was no "waiting out". If we didn't do the deal, he was gone to another team.

Reimer likely wasn't coming back to Toronto after how this fanbase treated him, and every other option you named is a way, way bigger risk with much less upside.

 

[Captain Crunch]

He was in the playoffs.

I just can’t see him doing that over a full 82 game schedule, as well as 3 or 4 playoff rounds.

Muzzin wasn't a top pair dman in Toronto ever, always playing behind Morgan Rielly and always on the 2nd pairing. He might have been one in his Stanley Cup days with LA, but then he was paired with Drew Doughty a Norris & Conn Smythe Dman, but that was nearly 10 years ago now.

Last year Jake Muzzin played in only 47 games (missing almost 1/2 a season) produced 3 goals 14 points and was a -6 +/- on the year. Those are clearly not top pairing numbers, and even questionable 2nd pairing to be honest. The best ability for an NHL team is availability, because without that you can't have reliability.

The previous 2 season prior he played in 53 games each. Injury and age and due to his style of play and now mounting concussions, even as 2nd pairing player he is no longer reliable,. He is closer to falling into a bottom pairing player then he is close to playing as a top pairing. Years on his style of play take a large toll on a player's body and his NHL longevity, and his career is slowly nearing its end soon.

At $5.65 mil he can not longer validate his cap hit contribution, and I think a lot of Leaf fans would be comfortable moving on from Jake, thank him for his warrior service, and use that cap space on a younger, better and healthier player.

Totally agree, Mess.

 

[andora]

I just can’t see him doing that over a full 82 game schedule, as well as 3 or 4 playoff rounds.

This is where you "save" him for playoffs
- split tough minutes
- manage his minutes
- choose matchups wisely
- use kids more to learn

 

[zeke]

I just can’t see him doing that over a full 82 game schedule, as well as 3 or 4 playoff rounds.

well he's done it his entire career so far.

 

[ACC1224]

I would have waited out the Sens on Murray. Force them to buy him out and sign him cheap.
If that didn’t happen my fall back would be to trade something minimal for Reimer.
If he isn’t on the block then Sign Comrie or Halak.
And if those fell through I would have waited it out to camp and grabbed a waiver goalie like whichever goalie the Sharks, Knights or Columbus try to send down.
Worst case you go Samsonov and Kallgren/Woll and see how much time that buys you to address in season.

Yeah he bungled it a bit, no doubt.
Won't matter if Murray works out.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

There was no "waiting out". If we didn't do the deal, he was gone to another team.

Reimer likely wasn't coming back to Toronto after how this fanbase treated him, and every other option you named is a way, way bigger risk with much less upside.

I would rather take the 4.5 million and time then jump on Murray.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Marner for a combo of high pick and high prospect depending on team. Do NJ or Columbus move 2oa+Holtz or 6th OA+Johnson or Sillinger before they know Gaudreau is an option? What about Philly? Anaheim?

Holl to Anaheim for future considerations

Sign Copp or Giroux a flexible 200ft forward that can swap center to wing

Sign Palat or Perron reliable vet winger.

Kerfoot to Arizona

Sandin+ to Boston for Carlo
or
Sandin to Dallas for Hakanpaa

Go after Talbot and Murray with what's left. Wait out the Murray trade and get Talbot first, then tell Ottawa they have to retain whatever amount makes the deal work so it'd prob work out to 30-40% of the contract.

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Palat-Tavares-Copp

Reilly-Brodie
Muzzin-Carlo/Hakanpaa
Geo-lilly

Continue depth moves and signing players for league min who aren't getting offers and weren't qualified.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I would rather take the 4.5 million and time then jump on Murray.

Taking the time would have just left them with less options, that were bigger risks, and no chance of Murray - the goalie they wanted.

 

[kb]

I would have waited out the Sens on Murray. Force them to buy him out and sign him cheap.
If that didn’t happen my fall back would be to trade something minimal for Reimer.
If he isn’t on the block then Sign Comrie or Halak.
And if those fell through I would have waited it out to camp and grabbed a waiver goalie like whichever goalie the Sharks, Knights or Columbus try to send down.
Worst case you go Samsonov and Kallgren/Woll and see how much time that buys you to address in season.

There was another suitor - Ottawa was not buying him out.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Taking the time would have just left them with less options, that were bigger risks, and no chance of Murray - the goalie they wanted.

“What would YOU have done”

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Taking the time would have just left them with less options, that were bigger risks, and no chance of Murray - the goalie they wanted.

If Toronto showed more interest and then fell off because of reasons we all fear. I suspect Ottawa would have added more or given us more reason to complete that trade. I believe everyone said they were desperate to move him,

 

[Dekes For Days]

I suspect Ottawa would have added more or given us more reason to complete that trade.

If the Toronto deal fell apart, they would have traded him to their other reported option and we would not have got him. There was no more retention or draft picks coming.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

If the Toronto deal fell apart, they would have traded him to their other reported option and we would not have got him. There was no more retention or draft picks coming.

Cant say they wouldnt have we literally dont know we are both speculating on this. none of us have any inside information
I mean if the offer got better chance is Toronto would have added something but seemed like a good opportunity to get an upgrade or something

 

[Dekes For Days]

Cant say they wouldnt have we literally dont know we are both speculating on this. none of us have any inside information

The inside information says there was another 25% retention offer on the table for Ottawa. I don't know why anybody thinks we could have got more from Ottawa. Seems like some people got way, way, way too excited speculating and fantasizing about wildly unrealistic trades when it was reported we were interested.

We get rid of 2 x 3.8m of a tandem goalie for 13 negligible spots in the draft after a really bad, injury-riddled year, but Ottawa needs to move heaven and earth to get rid of 2 x 4.7m of a cup-winning starting goalie after a decent but similarly injury-riddled year? Doesn't really add up.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

The inside information says there was another 25% retention offer on the table for Ottawa. I don't know why anybody thinks we could have got more from Ottawa. Seems like some people got way, way, way too excited speculating and fantasizing about wildly unrealistic trades when it was reported we were interested.

We get rid of 2 x 3.8m of a tandem goalie for 13 negligible spots in the draft after a really bad, injury-riddled year, but Ottawa needs to move heaven and earth to get rid of 2 x 4.7m of a cup-winning starting goalie after a decent but similarly injury-riddled year? Doesn't really add up.

inside information we get isnt always as reliable as we think. maybe that other team wanted more and Toronto was willing to accept less. we have no clue how much a deal could have changed. from what I understand Ottawa was fairly desperate to move him and are loaded with assets. the deal could have 100% gotten better and if they went in a different direction then that would have been fine too.
not sure why your making this seem like a good deal. it's still Matt Murray who is still over paid and may not even be an upgrade over Mrazek

 

[Dekes For Days]

not sure why your making this seem like a good deal.

I'm not making it seem like anything. I'm just pushing back on the idea that this is some horrible deal where we could have got more and just decided not to, which isn't supported by literally anything. If you don't personally like Murray, you're allowed that opinion, but Toronto did like Murray, and saw the pathway and potential for him to be successful here. Based on everything we know, this was the best possible deal for him, and Ottawa had no need or intention to raise the offer if we didn't take it.

We got the goalie we wanted, at a price that is decent if he's healthy and maintains his form from last year or earlier in his career, at a term that isn't too detrimental if he doesn't. We are taking on some risk, but literally every single goalie option out there was a similar or bigger risk in some way, and we got 2 free draft picks to help compensate that risk.

Let's see how it plays out, and not make up false claims about how we could have gotten more, with no evidence and contrary to the reports we do have.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I'm not making it seem like anything. I'm just pushing back on the idea that this is some horrible deal where we could have got more and just decided not to, which isn't supported by literally anything. If you don't personally like Murray, you're allowed that opinion, but Toronto did like Murray, and saw the pathway and potential for him to be successful here. Based on everything we know, this was the best possible deal for him, and Ottawa had no need or intention to raise the offer if we didn't take it.

We got the goalie we wanted, at a price that is decent if he's healthy and maintains his form from last year or earlier in his career, at a term that isn't too detrimental if he doesn't. We are taking on some risk, but literally every single goalie option out there was a similar or bigger risk in some way, and we got 2 free draft picks to help compensate that risk.

Let's see how it plays out, and not make up false claims about how we could have gotten more, with no evidence and contrary to the reports we do have.

its just Murray had no value. I think its possible he returns to form I dunno if Id be willing to bet this season on it but that is what it is.

I just think they could have done better. it wasnt a very good trade. it can be but thats pretty risky. Ottawa was likely willing to make it a bigger deal. Dubas missed out on an opportunity taking advantage pf a desperate team.

Its fine if you disagree but maybe this was one we should have let that other team take and look else where.
Might be paying to move Murray out in a year just like we did Mrazek

 

[Dekes For Days]

its just Murray had no value.

Well, we didn't pay value for him. We paid nothing and received 2 free draft picks and got 25% retention.

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that we could have gotten more. Every single indication is that it was either take that offer, or he'd be sent to the other interested team.

Toronto saw a pathway to success for him here, and at 2 x 4.7m, he carried similar or less risk than the alternative options. So we took it.

 

[stealth1]

Well, we didn't pay value for him. We paid nothing and received 2 free draft picks and got 25% retention.

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that we could have gotten more. Every single indication is that it was either take that offer, or he'd be sent to the other interested team.

Toronto saw a pathway to success for him here, and at 2 x 4.7m, he carried similar or less risk than the alternative options. So we took it.

There was better options. Since you're so high on analytics Comrie had way better ones. He was much cheaper. The only reason Campbell isn't back is cause of term not money.

 

[Dekes For Days]

U.... just dont Get it.

No, I get it perfectly. There's no evidence that we could have got more, but you don't like that fact.

There was better options. Since you're so high on analytics Comrie had way better ones. He was much cheaper.

Comrie had a good 19 games last year, but he's also 27, has a grand total of 29 NHL games, zero playoff experience, and that was the first time he was good. I wouldn't call that a better option.

The only reason Campbell isn't back is cause of term not money.

That's probably true, but that's a pretty good reason. A 5 x 5m commitment to 30-year Campbell coming off a not great year is quite risky.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

No, I get it perfectly. There's no evidence that we could have got more, but you don't like that fact.

Comrie had a good 19 games last year, but he's also 27, has a grand total of 29 NHL games, zero playoff experience, and that was the first time he was good. I wouldn't call that a better option.

That's probably true, but that's a pretty good reason. A 5 x 5m commitment to 30-year Campbell coming off a not great year is quite risky.

How do you know? how do you know if the Leafs said no and countered making it a bigger trade it would have automatically been a no. and if it was big deal. the adds on top of taking Murray wasn't even that great and boarderline not worth the risk

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Well, we didn't pay value for him. We paid nothing and received 2 free draft picks and got 25% retention.

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that we could have gotten more. Every single indication is that it was either take that offer, or he'd be sent to the other interested team.

Toronto saw a pathway to success for him here, and at 2 x 4.7m, he carried similar or less risk than the alternative options. So we took it.

You must just shake your head typing that. Not exactly a great picture of good management. To be reduced to a choice of a bad/often injured goalie in Mrazek, a bad/often injured goalie in Campbell, or a bad/often injured goalie in Murray.

 

[Racer88]

You must just shake your head typing that. Not exactly a great picture of good management. To be reduced to a choice of a bad/often injured goalie in Mrazek, a bad/often injured goalie in Campbell, or a bad/often injured goalie in Murray.

The Shanaplan in all its magnificence

 

[Dekes For Days]

How do you know?

How do you know? You're the one making claims based on absolutely nothing that are contrary to what has been reported. Based on reports, Ottawa had another trade lined up, so there's absolutely no reason to think that we could have gotten more.

and if it was big deal.

It is for Toronto, who would miss out on a deal and goalie they wanted. It's clear you just don't like Murray, so just say that, instead of making false claims the Leafs could have extracted more.

Not exactly a great picture of good management. To be reduced to a choice of a bad/often injured goalie in Mrazek, a bad/often injured goalie in Campbell, or a bad/often injured goalie in Murray.

Not exactly an accurate description of those goalies, and those weren't our only options. It doesn't really say anything about management, since pretty much 95% of the goalies in the NHL (and all of the ones available) carry some risk where you could make a similar type of negative comment about them.