What would you have done?

[Notsince67]

That's the problem when they cling to every word and then miss the point entirely, unlike yourself.

Tampa Bay vs Toronto .. A tale of two teams Big Picture. Lets see what a proven contender does and what a pretender trying to beat them does.

Tampa Bay a team that almost completed a 3 peat for the Stanley Cup

- They take a core young player Mikhail Sergachev age 24 and sign him to an 8 year extension for $8.5 mil as core player.
- They trade away an aging 33 year old Ryan McDonagh making $6,750,000 and every bit or better than aging 33 year old Jake Muzzin, but also breaking down with age,
- They open a roster spot for former 1st round pick #14 OA in 2017 now 23 year old Cal Foote to replace Ryan McDonagh roster spot.
- The compete wheels keeps churning on.

The Toronto Maple Leafs a want-to-be Stanley Cup holder.

- They re-sign 28 year old Morgan Reilly a core piece to an 8 year extension for $7.5 mil
- They hold on tight to a 33 year old Jake Muzzin a player in decline due to age and injury history.
- They trade 2 X 2nds + 3rd (3 future top 90 picks ) to acquire 39 year old Mark Giodano at the twilight of his career and re-sign him for 2 years to play at age 40 to backup a play behind Muzzin.
- They block both for Cap and roster spot reasons their own former 1st round pick in 2018 of 22 year old Rasmus Sandin and his Leafs future now uncertain.
- The compete wheels are nearly falling off.

NOTE : The point of this post (in case some of those others miss it ) is the handling of a middle pairing aging Dman Jake Muzzin vs Ryan McDonagh..

Which team is positioning themselves well for the future and playing the long game despite present success, and which is playing the short game despite no playoff success and banking on Jake Muzzin is the same player that won the Cup 10 years ago in LA ,claiming he still that player today, claiming the Leafs window is wide open? Can't wait to play Tampa Bay again !!

PS. The Tampa Bay story and defense doesn't even include their Norris and Conn Smythe #1 Dman Hedman when discussing teams LHD.

Muzzin has a NTC that will only revert to a M-NTC after this coming year. Leafs are stuck with him.

 

[Mess]

I know one thing I would do differently handed the cards I am currently dealt with the Leafs spending and cap allocation. The Leafs have 3 players as the 7th highest AAV in the NHL and use 1/2 their cap on just 4 forwards.

2 X Things I highly disagree with both cap usage and allocation at position in terms of Cup competitiveness.

Now my point is this, IF you're going to pay a player $11 mil AVV and among the highest in the league then that player HAS to be able to drive their own line. That should be obvious that an $11 mil player that consumes that much individual cap shouldn't need another player to support them, or their contract is a massive over payment.

So Leafs are they're own worst enemy of stacking the offense and then trying to fill the bottom 6 with bargain bin and waiver wire cast-offs and then complain they don't generate enough offense and then annually swap around the deck chairs on the titanic that is already taking on water and destined to fail and sink come playoff time.

So the solution is simply to build a top 9 forwards with one $11 mil player on each line driver their own trio and no double dipping.

XXXX ---- Matthews ----- XXXX
XXXX ---- Tavares ------- XXXX
XXXX ---- XXXX ----------Marner
& 4th line

Now fill in the XXXX blanks. You can stack the PP with your stars but at 5v5 ES they should all play on their individual lines and that prevents opposition teams from shutting them down when they put all their offensive eggs in one basket.

PS. As you have seen with Bunting who is clearly not a top line player on skill but carried by a MVP player in Matthews, as line carriers make their linemates better.

The strength of the 2018 team that set a record 105 points was a balance offense.

Hyman (15 goals) -- Matthews (34G in 62 games) --- Nylander (20) ------> 69 goals
Marleau (27) -------Kadri (32) ----------------------- C. Brown (14) -------> 87 goals
JVR ( 36) -----------Bozak (12) ----------------------- Marner (22) --------> 70 goals

Leafs would rotate their RWs at times to create or adjust to matchups, but still had a balanced top 9 offense. Which line is the opposition going to check and shutdown ?

 

[andora]

I know one thing I would do differently handed the cards I am currently dealt with the Leafs spending and cap allocation. The Leafs have 3 players as the 7th highest AAV in the NHL and use 1/2 their cap on just 4 forwards.

2 X Things I highly disagree with both cap usage and allocation at position in terms of Cup competitiveness.

Now my point is this, IF you're going to pay a player $11 mil AVV and among the highest in the league then that player HAS to be able to drive their own line. That should be obvious that an $11 mil player that consumes that much individual cap shouldn't need another player to support them, or their contract is a massive over payment.

So Leafs are they're own worst enemy of stacking the offense and then trying to fill the bottom 6 with bargain bin and waiver wire cast-offs and then complain they don't generate enough offense and then annually swap around the deck chairs on the titanic that is already taking on water and destined to fail and sink come playoff time.

So the solution is simply to build a top 9 forwards with one $11 mil player on each line driver their own trio and no double dipping.

XXXX ---- Matthews ----- XXXX
XXXX ---- Tavares ------- XXXX
XXXX ---- XXXX ----------Marner
& 4th line

Now fill in the XXXX blanks. You can stack the PP with your stars but at 5v5 ES they should all play on their individual lines and that prevents opposition teams from shutting them down when they put all their offensive eggs in one basket.

PS. As you have seen with Bunting who is clearly not a top line player on skill but carried by a MVP player in Matthews, as line carriers make their linemates better.

The strength of the 2018 team that set a record 105 points was a balance offense.

Hyman (15 goals) -- Matthews (34G in 62 games) --- Nylander (20) ------> 69 goals
Marleau (27) -------Kadri (32) ----------------------- C. Brown (14) -------> 87 goals
JVR ( 36) -----------Bozak (12) ----------------------- Marner (22) --------> 70 goals

Leafs would rotate their RWs at times to create or adjust to matchups, but still had a balanced top 9 offense. Which line is the opposition going to check and shutdown ?

What did you do with nylander?

 

[notbias]

The strength of the 2018 team that set a record 105 points was a balance offense.

The team you say doesn't work just shattered this record... odd thing to bring up

 

[Mess]

What did you do with nylander?

I personally would try Nylander at C and play him with Marner as I don't think he works well with JT. However if that didn't work something like this.

Bunting ------- Matthews --- Nylander
Robertson ---- Tavares ------ Kerfoot
Engvall --------Järnkrok ---- Marner
Simmonds ----Kampf --------Aube-Kubel
Gaudette

While its not great because the cost of the big 4 is 1/2 the cap, but it is what it is.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Fans act like they are buying players from a grocery store

it's the EA Sports effect

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Can't imagine Sutter having any interest in coaching a player like Nylander.

Nylander would want out in a week

 

[Notsince67]

I know one thing I would do differently handed the cards I am currently dealt with the Leafs spending and cap allocation. The Leafs have 3 players as the 7th highest AAV in the NHL and use 1/2 their cap on just 4 forwards.

2 X Things I highly disagree with both cap usage and allocation at position in terms of Cup competitiveness.

Now my point is this, IF you're going to pay a player $11 mil AVV and among the highest in the league then that player HAS to be able to drive their own line. That should be obvious that an $11 mil player that consumes that much individual cap shouldn't need another player to support them, or their contract is a massive over payment.

So Leafs are they're own worst enemy of stacking the offense and then trying to fill the bottom 6 with bargain bin and waiver wire cast-offs and then complain they don't generate enough offense and then annually swap around the deck chairs on the titanic that is already taking on water and destined to fail and sink come playoff time.

So the solution is simply to build a top 9 forwards with one $11 mil player on each line driver their own trio and no double dipping.

XXXX ---- Matthews ----- XXXX
XXXX ---- Tavares ------- XXXX
XXXX ---- XXXX ----------Marner
& 4th line

Now fill in the XXXX blanks. You can stack the PP with your stars but at 5v5 ES they should all play on their individual lines and that prevents opposition teams from shutting them down when they put all their offensive eggs in one basket.

PS. As you have seen with Bunting who is clearly not a top line player on skill but carried by a MVP player in Matthews, as line carriers make their linemates better.

The strength of the 2018 team that set a record 105 points was a balance offense.

Hyman (15 goals) -- Matthews (34G in 62 games) --- Nylander (20) ------> 69 goals
Marleau (27) -------Kadri (32) ----------------------- C. Brown (14) -------> 87 goals
JVR ( 36) -----------Bozak (12) ----------------------- Marner (22) --------> 70 goals

Leafs would rotate their RWs at times to create or adjust to matchups, but still had a balanced top 9 offense. Which line is the opposition going to check and shutdown ?

So the coach should factor in salary for his line choices? Does ability, chemistry and skill now take a back seat to contract? Tactical placement to account for PP and PK staffing needs to be put on hold based on contract considerations? This ain't hockey. This is a socialist experiment

 

[conFABulator]

So the coach should factor in salary for his line choices? Does ability, chemistry and skill now take a back seat to contract? Tactical placement to account for PP and PK staffing needs to be put on hold based on contract considerations? This ain't hockey. This is a socialist experiment

I don't think the coach needs to consider salary when putting lines together and I don't think that is what he is saying. I read it as a guy making that kind of money should be able to carry a line. I also think he is talking about depth and balance.

I agree, but think we need to get two lines going before we worry about three scoring lines.

I still like:

Bunting / Matthews / Nylander
Robertson / Tavares / Marner

...if Robertson is not the answer then maybe Malgin is? Maybe Knies is the answer...we always have Kerfoot.

That 2018 team did not have a checking line, a line that could be trusted with D zone starts, etc

Engvall / Kampf / Jarnkrok

Then our fourth line brings some energy and chips in a few goals here and there and is better than the other team's 4th line.

NAK / Kerfoot / Anderson (or Malgin, or Gaudette)

That 2018 team got ~225 goals from their top 9. I think the line jo above comes pretty close to that and we have a bottom six that serves a purpose.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So OUT: Mrazek, Ritchie, 1st round pick & conditional 2nd round pick ... IN: 2nd round pick

This is inaccurate. The transactional cost of moving both Mrazek and Ritchie was...

Out: Pick #25, conditional 2nd/3rd round pick
In: Pick #38, Lyubushkin

The strength of the 2018 team that set a record 105 points was a balance offense.

Actually, a decent part of the strength of the of the 2017-2018 team over other versions of the team was our 35+ journeyman backup putting up Vezina-quality play, as well as a ridiculously lucky record in the shootout.

Though yes, the 2017-2018 team did have good offensive depth due to all of our star players being on ELCs, Lou keeping his inherited depth as own rentals, and Lou signing Marleau to a contract that would benefit the 2017-2018 team but sabotage the team in the following years.

And for the record, 105 isn't the record. It's 115, which we did with the lineup style you're criticizing. Even just offensively, we scored 3.1 5v5 GF/60 this past year, compared to 2.77 5v5 GF/60 in 2017-2018.

Hyman (15 goals) -- Matthews (34G in 62 games) --- Nylander (20) ------> 69 goals
Marleau (27) -------Kadri (32) ----------------------- C. Brown (14) -------> 87 goals
JVR ( 36) -----------Bozak (12) ----------------------- Marner (22) --------> 70 goals

Why are you posting their 5v5 lineup (which isn't even correct - Brown didn't play there most of the time, Komarov did) and talking about 5v5 goal production, but including their non-5v5 goals in your totals?

For the record, the top-9 in 2017-2018 scored 151 5v5 goals. The top-9 in 2021-2022 scored 176 5v5 goals, and was better defensively.

 

[zeke]

The strength of the 2018 team that set a record 105 points was a balance offense.

2018 paces --> 2022 paces

Matthews 44gls/83pts ---> Matthews 67gls/119pts
Marner 22gls/69pts -------> Marner 40gls/111pts
Nylander 20gls/61pts ----> Nylander 35gls/81pts

Kadri 33gls/56pts ----------> Tavares 28gls/79pts
JVR 37gls/55pts ------------> Mikheyev 33gls/50pts
Marleau 27gls/47pts -----> Bunting 24gls/65pts

Bozak 11gls/44pts --------> Kerfoot 13gls/51pts
Hyman 15gls/40pts ------> Engvall 16gls/37pts
Brown 14gls/28pts -------> Kase 23gls/44pts

Moore 10gls/20pts ------> Kampf 11gls/26pts
Komarov 8gls/21pts ----> Spezza 14gls/29pts
Martin 5gls/20pts --------> Simmonds 6gls/18pts

Plekanec 6gls/28pts ---> Blackwell 14gls/28pts
Kapanen 15gls/19pts --> Robertson 8gls/8pts
Johnsson 18gls/26pts -> Abbruzzese 9gls/9pts


Rielly 7gls/56pts ----------> Rielly 10gls/68pts
Gardiner 5gls/52pts -----> Giordano 9gls/38pts

Dermott 2gls/29pts ------> Liljegren 7gls/31pts
Hainsey 4gls/24pts ------> Brodie 4gls/28pts

Carrick 7gls/21pts --------> Holl 4gls/27pts
Borgman 5gls/19pts -----> Sandin 8gls/26pts

Zaitsev 7gls/18pts --------> Muzzin 5gls/24pts
Polak 3gls/18pts ----------> Boosh 2gls/16pts


And thats even with the 2018 depth scoring getting artifically boosted with extra PP time cuz the coach wouldn't play his top PP players together on a real top PP unit, and gave the depth guys more PP minutes than they deserved.

 

[29Potvin]

Goalie situation would be a toss up with whatever we did unless we went big game hunting and depleted our prospects and draft capital.

It also seems that Dubas was only given enough leash for this and next season as no long term deals were offered outside of Järnkrok's and I'm fine with that as I would like the team to have enough to give AM34 whatever it takes and a new GM not have tough contracts that required addons to move when trying to sign AM34 and Willy.
As for the depth options I would like to see them look into Motte/ZAR/Milano and maybe offer PTO to guys like Gagne/Turris/P.K if they haven't signed yet.
Trade Holl/Kerfoot/Sandin (only if he isn't willing to take the Lily type contract) or he can bring in a top 6 LW

 

[Notsince67]

I don't think the coach needs to consider salary when putting lines together and I don't think that is what he is saying. I read it as a guy making that kind of money should be able to carry a line. I also think he is talking about depth and balance.

I agree, but think we need to get two lines going before we worry about three scoring lines.

I still like:

Bunting / Matthews / Nylander
Robertson / Tavares / Marner

...if Robertson is not the answer then maybe Malgin is? Maybe Knies is the answer...we always have Kerfoot.

That 2018 team did not have a checking line, a line that could be trusted with D zone starts, etc

Engvall / Kampf / Jarnkrok

Then our fourth line brings some energy and chips in a few goals here and there and is better than the other team's 4th line.

NAK / Kerfoot / Anderson (or Malgin, or Gaudette)

That 2018 team got ~225 goals from their top 9. I think the line jo above comes pretty close to that and we have a bottom six that serves a purpose.

Your first line was played for 130:36 last year at even strength.
It generated 3 GF and 9 GA. What kind of sample size would you suggest before you realize that dog won't hunt?

 

[ER89]

What I would have done requires going back in time.

McCann-Matthews-Marner
Marchment-Kadri-Nylander
Kapanen-Jarvis-Brown
Martin-Moore-Grundstrom

Rielly-Brodie
Klingberg-Liljegren
Sandin-Rutta

Andersen
McElhinney

Likely you don’t get Jarvis if you went that far back