Yes, there's a pattern of people falsely thinking that unless you completely destroy the other side in wildly unrealistic ways in a contract negotiation or trade, then you've just "given them what they want". There's also a pattern of people weirdly believing that these alternative options these players had are somehow a conspiracy made up and designed just to make Dubas pay more.
What would you have done?
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Captain Crunch
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- Mar 31, 2019
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I like Muzzin, but I don’t think he’s a top 2 anymore. Possibly still a top 4, but that’s it.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Trade Kerfoot for Picks
Trade Sandin for Equivalent type C
Sign ZAR, Jarnkrok, Balcers, Haydn Fleury, Colin White, Samsonov
Trade for Talbot
Bunting Matthews Marner
Balcers Tavares Nylander
Robertson White Jarnkrok
ZAR Steeves Anderson
Reilly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Giordano Holl
Fleury
Talbot
Samsonov
Trade Sandin for Equivalent type C
Sign ZAR, Jarnkrok, Balcers, Haydn Fleury, Colin White, Samsonov
Trade for Talbot
Bunting Matthews Marner
Balcers Tavares Nylander
Robertson White Jarnkrok
ZAR Steeves Anderson
Reilly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Giordano Holl
Fleury
Talbot
Samsonov
Tak7
Registered User
Everyone knows that the Sharks didn't really want Tavares, and simply just offered more money as a ploy to get Dubas to order a 4th Brinks truck instead of the 3.
MLSE
Registered User
This question is always interesting because we assume we could sign any free agent and they'd want to be here.
Knowing what I know.. I'd trade Holl for sure if I can... Maybe Muzzin if I know I can get a decent defenseman. Use extra cap for forward depth.
Knowing what I know.. I'd trade Holl for sure if I can... Maybe Muzzin if I know I can get a decent defenseman. Use extra cap for forward depth.
Not too against what Dubas has done so far. In net, instead of Murray I might have gone after Varlamov depending on the price if the Islanders were to retain 1 million from his salary. Varlamov - Samsonov tandem would have been good.
Vegas will look to shed some salary, two forwards with size I’d have interest in would be Roy and Carrier. Throw them Kerfoot which will save them a million against the cap and a lot more in real money for the season.
To Toronto: Nicolas Roy + William Carrier
To Vegas: Alex Kerfoot
To Toronto: 2023 2nd Rounder
To Dallas: Justin Holl
Re-Sign:
Nicolas Roy - 3 years @ 3 million per
Rasmus Sandin - 1 year @ 1.4 million per
Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Roy
Engvall - Jarnkrok - Robertson
Carrier - Kampf - Aube-Kubel
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Sandin - Giordano
Murray - Samsonov
Vegas will look to shed some salary, two forwards with size I’d have interest in would be Roy and Carrier. Throw them Kerfoot which will save them a million against the cap and a lot more in real money for the season.
To Toronto: Nicolas Roy + William Carrier
To Vegas: Alex Kerfoot
To Toronto: 2023 2nd Rounder
To Dallas: Justin Holl
Re-Sign:
Nicolas Roy - 3 years @ 3 million per
Rasmus Sandin - 1 year @ 1.4 million per
Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Roy
Engvall - Jarnkrok - Robertson
Carrier - Kampf - Aube-Kubel
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Sandin - Giordano
Murray - Samsonov
Racer88
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DraftSchmaft
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Only thing fishy about this second suitor report is why did sens choose us over the second suitor. Given the choice you wouldn't help a rival you're trying to jump?
Also how do we know the second suitor didn't say they'll wait and werent phased by us. From our perspective the other team is the second suitor but from the other teams perspective, we are the second suitor.
Not necessarily true we had to take it or move on.
It’s going to take a lot more then 12.634 for Matthews. Especially if it’s 8 years.
Captain Crunch
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We’ll see if this past season was just an aberration, or if his age and style of play have finally caught up to him.
I can like him all I want, but that’s not going to make him be a top 2 dman.
capfit9
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
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why did he put himself in that position in the first place ? seems to lack foresight IMO
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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Yeah his top pair days are behind him. He’s serviceable enough on the middle pair though. Not sure if that would even be the case if he played a full season.
justashadowof
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- Aug 15, 2020
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Guys, let me tell you about buying my Honda Civic back in the 90's. The salesman said I needed to act fast because these cars are really popular in certain communities especially since I wanted a red one. At the end of it all he shook my hand and said he really respected me as a negotiator. So I'll always have that and my memories of the good times in my white Honda Civic.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Mess
Global Moderator
Muzzin wasn't a top pair dman in Toronto ever, always playing behind Morgan Rielly and always on the 2nd pairing. He might have been one in his Stanley Cup days with LA, but then he was paired with Drew Doughty a Norris & Conn Smythe Dman, but that was nearly 10 years ago now.
Last year Jake Muzzin played in only 47 games (missing almost 1/2 a season) produced 3 goals 14 points and was a -6 +/- on the year. Those are clearly not top pairing numbers, and even questionable 2nd pairing to be honest. The best ability for an NHL team is availability, because without that you can't have reliability.
The previous 2 season prior he played in 53 games each. Injury and age and due to his style of play and now mounting concussions, even as 2nd pairing player he is no longer reliable,. He is closer to falling into a bottom pairing player then he is close to playing as a top pairing. Years on his style of play take a large toll on a player's body and his NHL longevity, and his career is slowly nearing its end soon.
At $5.65 mil he can not longer validate his cap hit contribution, and I think a lot of Leaf fans would be comfortable moving on from Jake, thank him for his warrior service, and use that cap space on a younger, better and healthier player.
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Based on the moves available in the public domain, I wouldn't change the goalie situation.
Not a huge Gaudette fan, probably would have gone with a different league min forward.
Jarncrok was a great add, like NAK.
Biggest change- don't tender Engvall. Maybe he gets that or more on the open market, maybe he doesn't. With how flooded the market is with middle 6 talent that taking that chance would have paid dividends.
Not a huge Gaudette fan, probably would have gone with a different league min forward.
Jarncrok was a great add, like NAK.
Biggest change- don't tender Engvall. Maybe he gets that or more on the open market, maybe he doesn't. With how flooded the market is with middle 6 talent that taking that chance would have paid dividends.
Mess
Global Moderator
"Play the Kids"
I would have re-signed RFA's Sandin and Liljegren as priorities and made rosters spots and room to use them as my 3rd Dcore pairing this year, and let them grow and develop with the team. Strong drafting & developing is the key in salary cap world to long sustainable success, as is their cheaper contracts necessary to offset your top players. Both young Leaf Dman now 4-5 years removed from their draft classes look ready to become regular NHL players, just have to give them their opportunities to do so, with roster spots and ice-time to allow it to happen.
With the re-signing of their own Morgan Rielly to his new 8 year @$7.5 mil contract the kids on D would be perfect team building and offsetting balance as both former 1st rounders themselves in talent and just coming out of their ELC contracts. hitting two key marks, price for affordability, and essentially parts in team longevity.
The whole concept of smart team building in a Cap World, is moving out the old and declining players, and replacing them internally with your own home grown young talent, and realizing your drafting and developing is key. The key to creating that pipeline is holding your own draft picks as vital precious future team building resources, while investing non cap impacting resources into internal development grooming that future talent for your parent NHL team.
Look at all the home grown drafted and developed talent on the Cup winning Lightening and Avalanche.
I would have re-signed RFA's Sandin and Liljegren as priorities and made rosters spots and room to use them as my 3rd Dcore pairing this year, and let them grow and develop with the team. Strong drafting & developing is the key in salary cap world to long sustainable success, as is their cheaper contracts necessary to offset your top players. Both young Leaf Dman now 4-5 years removed from their draft classes look ready to become regular NHL players, just have to give them their opportunities to do so, with roster spots and ice-time to allow it to happen.
With the re-signing of their own Morgan Rielly to his new 8 year @$7.5 mil contract the kids on D would be perfect team building and offsetting balance as both former 1st rounders themselves in talent and just coming out of their ELC contracts. hitting two key marks, price for affordability, and essentially parts in team longevity.
The whole concept of smart team building in a Cap World, is moving out the old and declining players, and replacing them internally with your own home grown young talent, and realizing your drafting and developing is key. The key to creating that pipeline is holding your own draft picks as vital precious future team building resources, while investing non cap impacting resources into internal development grooming that future talent for your parent NHL team.
Look at all the home grown drafted and developed talent on the Cup winning Lightening and Avalanche.
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zeke
The Dube Abides
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Oh hey look who wants to play the kids again now suddenly...when he can use it to criticize the team, of course.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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It's funny how someone could watch the Leafs so avidly and not see that Muzzin has been the top matchup dman on the Leafs since day one against all top matchups, until only this year being challenged by Brodie for that role ....only to see the two of them join together on the top matchup pairing by the end of the season where they did a fantastic job dominating TB's top liners in the playoffs.
Primary Assist
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showtime8
Registered User
Don't disagree with some of the signings that Dubas made. Think there was some good value and trying to find the next Bunting to bolster the line-up.
I think they can utilize Jarnkrok better in a more offensive system than what he showed in Sutter's defensive mindset. If he's healthy for a full season, I think he scores 20 goals. I liked the Aube-Kubel signing. He's more that complimentary piece that can move up and down the line-up.
Where he could have improved was the return and timing for Murray. He was in a position of strength and got worked. He needs to significantly upgrade the top 4 defense. Compared to contending teams like Tampa and Colorado, they are no where close to as tough to play against. Starting next season with Muzzin-Holl is grounds for another built in disappointment. Stronger NHL depth in the bottom 6 would be a concern. Style-wise, I think there will be more of an attack mentality, with relentless forecheck. Just need 1 or 2 more pieces for that to come together.
He's still got lots of time and there are some more dominoes to fall, but he's still got some work to do.
I think they can utilize Jarnkrok better in a more offensive system than what he showed in Sutter's defensive mindset. If he's healthy for a full season, I think he scores 20 goals. I liked the Aube-Kubel signing. He's more that complimentary piece that can move up and down the line-up.
Where he could have improved was the return and timing for Murray. He was in a position of strength and got worked. He needs to significantly upgrade the top 4 defense. Compared to contending teams like Tampa and Colorado, they are no where close to as tough to play against. Starting next season with Muzzin-Holl is grounds for another built in disappointment. Stronger NHL depth in the bottom 6 would be a concern. Style-wise, I think there will be more of an attack mentality, with relentless forecheck. Just need 1 or 2 more pieces for that to come together.
He's still got lots of time and there are some more dominoes to fall, but he's still got some work to do.
agree with this but lets hope some kids step up and are able to play that relentless forecheck
gaudette and malgin dont give me any confidence playing that style
- Sep 8, 2004
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Husso may be a bigger risk than Murray.
if it is/was actually injuries that caused his decline, rather than just 'losing it' he's got a much better/proven record than a career backup that played on a defensive style team who has a grand total of 64 NHL starts, and washed out in the playoffs. even his AHL numbers dont scream anything more than career backup and he's only 9 months younger than Murray.
that said, i wouldnt have obtained either of them, risk is too great on both, but, Husso would never have even entered my consideration.
