Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[TheBeard]

You make it sound like a team can just choose when to have injuries and that everyone can use this. I've never argued it's illegal, I've argued it's a terrible rule that allows a few teams to gain an unfair advantage that most teams don't have the luxury of being able to use.

Two years ago, when Vegas couldn’t trade Dadonov at the deadline because they knew they needed Mark stone back earlier than they planned simply because they were hanging onto the last wild card spot, the team ended up conveniently putting 4 guys on LTIR to offset the 14 million they needed to activate Stone (and Martinez). This team has done it three years running now, flip-flopping players to stash on ltir until playoffs. Three years. Just because other teams don’t do it doesn’t make it right. If I watch a flash mob run into an Apple Store and grab everything, I’m not just gonna do it because they’re getting away with it.

 

[TheSuperElite]

surprise, surprise!

 

[Sanderson]

Its not cheating if any team can do it.

Um, yes, it very much is cheating. Thats like saying speeding isn't against the law because anyone can do it. Just because some people get away with it, or because the authorities don't bother to do much about the issue, doesn't somehow make it legal.

Or to use another sports comparison: just because many other cyclists were doping as well (though not nearly as successfully), doesn't mean that Lance Armstrong wasn't cheating. Without the cheating, he never would have won anything.
It's not surprising that teams make use of it if they see that no one challenges them about it. It's still cheating though. Just like it was cheating when the players hooked, held and interfered to their hearts content back in the DPE. They knew they would get away with it, because the league didn't care about it, but it was still in breach of the rules.

Sadly, you are correct in that teams don't want to fix it. It does seem like teams follow the approach of the average Joe who thinks he will be the one who happens to become rich someday and is therefore against taxing the rich people properly, and thus don't care to fix this blatant loophole as they might get to use it themselves one day.

 

[HanSolo]

Um, yes, it very much is cheating. Thats like saying speeding isn't against the law because anyone can do it. Just because some people get away with it, or because the authorities don't bother to do much about the issue, doesn't somehow make it legal.

Or to use another sports comparison: just because many other cyclists were doping as well (though not nearly as successfully), doesn't mean that Lance Armstrong wasn't cheating. Without the cheating, he never would have won anything.
It's not surprising that teams make use of it if they see that no one challenges them about it. It's still cheating though. Just like it was cheating when the players hooked, held and interfered to their hearts content back in the DPE. They knew they would get away with it, because the league didn't care about it, but it was still in breach of the rules.

Sadly, you are correct in that teams don't want to fix it. It does seem like teams follow the approach of the average Joe who thinks he will be the one who happens to become rich someday and is therefore against taxing the rich people properly, and thus don't care to fix this blatant loophole as they might get to use it themselves one day.

Too many false equivalencies to tackle at once. But it's all based around the premise that there's some rule against this use of the LTIR cap relief. There isn't. That's been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.

 

[Satire]

You don't actually know how close of an eye the league keeps on this none of us do. How often are they assessed by these independent medical examiners? What is the criteria for fit to return? It's incredibly easy to exploit what is deemed fit to return to sport especially when you have players who play through injuries despite likely receiving medical advice not to. There is no black and white when it come to readiness to return to sport from an injury. There's tissue healing and then there's symptoms, conditioning, strength testing, power testing etc that actually takes place for most musculoskeletal injuries.

In Stone's case his injury is not a musculoskeletal injury. It should be black and white that when he's healed (confirmed by diagnostic imaging) he should no longer be eligible for LTIR. You would think it should be easy to investigate, but if his "healing timeline" ends up coinciding with the first playoff game then I think its pretty easy to conclude the independent medical examining is not thorough and a complete joke.

I think this is a fair point. My best guess is the league probably does do some semblance of auditing or checking when players go on LTIR... I doubt they do any accountability checks when someone comes off LTIR though. That would be very hard to judge as different medical professionals are going to have different opinions.

A lot of folks making arguments about going in the LTIR, but I think the timeline for recovery is actually the greater issue. It would be interesting to see the league maybe add some expectations with cap circumvention around this piece to ensure teams are at least trying to use the rule as intended.

No ill will towards Vegas here, but it is rather funny to see the same shenanigans for 3 years in a row now even if it's just a truly odd turn of events.

 

[TheBeard]

Um, yes, it very much is cheating. Thats like saying speeding isn't against the law because anyone can do it. Just because some people get away with it, or because the authorities don't bother to do much about the issue, doesn't somehow make it legal.

Or to use another sports comparison: just because many other cyclists were doping as well (though not nearly as successfully), doesn't mean that Lance Armstrong wasn't cheating. Without the cheating, he never would have won anything.
It's not surprising that teams make use of it if they see that no one challenges them about it. It's still cheating though. Just like it was cheating when the players hooked, held and interfered to their hearts content back in the DPE. They knew they would get away with it, because the league didn't care about it, but it was still in breach of the rules.

Sadly, you are correct in that teams don't want to fix it. It does seem like teams follow the approach of the average Joe who thinks he will be the one who happens to become rich someday and is therefore against taxing the rich people properly, and thus don't care to fix this blatant loophole as they might get to use it themselves one day.

It’s not cheating but it is abusing the spirit of the rule

think this is a fair point. My best guess is the league probably does do some semblance of auditing or checking when players go on LTIR... I doubt they do any accountability checks when someone comes off LTIR though. That would be very hard to judge as different medical professionals are going to have different opinions.

The last thing the nhl wants is any sort of potential lawsuit or bad publicity by forcing a player to come off ltir to play because their doctor deemed them healthy.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

quelle surprise

 

[canuckslover10]

Honestly Myers is on IR he should just stretch it out a bit and give us some of that cap circumvention but his dumb agent already came out and said he'd be back before the playoffs .

 

[Bowski]

Leave Vegas alone!

 

[ricky0034]

Vegas signed me for some reason even though I don't even know how to play Hockey

they insisted on paying me in cash with a sack full of money with a dollar sign and the words "don't tell HFBoards" written underneath

 

[JoVel]

Or to use another sports comparison: just because many other cyclists were doping as well (though not nearly as successfully), doesn't mean that Lance Armstrong wasn't cheating. Without the cheating, he never would have won anything.
It's not surprising that teams make use of it if they see that no one challenges them about it. It's still cheating though. Just like it was cheating when the players hooked, held and interfered to their hearts content back in the DPE. They knew they would get away with it, because the league didn't care about it, but it was still in breach of the rules.

Lance Armstrong was cheating because whoever is in charge of cycling races cared about doping. The difference is that the NHL doesn't care if teams do this.

 

[hangman005]

..... Yet

I was going to add that

 

[chaser17]

It's an easy fix, if you finish the regular season on LTIR you are ineligible for the first round at minimum. I'd like to see 2 rounds honestly.

 

[Pez68]

I love when fans of teams complain about other teams doing things that every team in the league can also do....

Who f***ing cares? I want to see the most talented teams in the league in the playoffs, and if that means a team can add before the playoffs start because a guy is legitimately injured, who gives a f***? All teams can do the same damn thing.

 

[v00d00daddy]

Too many false equivalencies to tackle at once. But it's all based around the premise that there's some rule against this use of the LTIR cap relief. There isn't. That's been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.

No rules broken. Just loop holes found and used.

And if/when these loop holes are addressed we can all choose to see it however we want.

There are already some cups that are valued less than others. I doubt the VGK success will be any different.

And VGK fans won’t care. Nor should they.

But the NHL will care because it looks bad.

 

[ijuka]

75% retainment 75% retainment 75% retainment 75% retainment

And then activate LTIR for playoffs

Might as well remove the cap, tbh

 

[Pez68]

No rules broken. Just loop holes found and used.

And if/when these loop holes are addressed we can all choose to see it however we want.

There are already some cups that are valued less than others. I doubt the VGK success will be any different.

And VGK fans won’t care. Nor should they.

But the NHL will care because it looks bad.

The NHL doesn't give a f***. They never have. It's been this way for decades and the only people complaining are generally fans of shit teams that weren't making it out of the first round regardless. The NHL isn't doing shit about LTIR "loopholes" because there's no benefit in doing so.

 

[KapG]

Just get rid of the f***ing cap

 

[v00d00daddy]

The NHL doesn't give a f***. They never have. It's been this way for decades and the only people complaining are generally fans of shit teams that weren't making it out of the first round regardless. The NHL isn't doing shit about LTIR "loopholes" because there's no benefit in doing so.

Stay classy lol

 

[Pez68]

Stay classy lol

Your reply makes no sense, but sure.

 

[archangel2]

Vegas owner spends a lot of money and he make a lot of money at the gate. He has told the GM, the more home games, the happier he will be. Vegas does not want to be a road team to start the playoffs

 

[Peasy]

I love when fans of teams complain about other teams doing things that every team in the league can also do....

Who f***ing cares? I want to see the most talented teams in the league in the playoffs, and if that means a team can add before the playoffs start because a guy is legitimately injured, who gives a f***? All teams can do the same damn thing.

Except not every team can do it lmao. Not every team has a 9.5m player they can stick on ltir and then have em come back at the start of the playoffs. So no, not every team can do this.

It's a stupid loophole due to the stupid hard cap structure of the NHL. And that is why teams will never get rid of it, because they know they need ltir to be a flexible cap maneuver option in this hard cap league.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Two years ago, when Vegas couldn’t trade Dadonov at the deadline because they knew they needed Mark stone back earlier than they planned simply because they were hanging onto the last wild card spot, the team ended up conveniently putting 4 guys on LTIR to offset the 14 million they needed to activate Stone (and Martinez). This team has done it three years running now, flip-flopping players to stash on ltir until playoffs. Three years. Just because other teams don’t do it doesn’t make it right. If I watch a flash mob run into an Apple Store and grab everything, I’m not just gonna do it because they’re getting away with it.

Terrible analogy. A flash mob running into an Apple Store and grabbing everything (and not paying for it), is against the law. It called stealing. Putting players on LTIR is allowed in the NHL.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It's a better league when teams can make big trades easier even if it is bending rules.

There’s a million things they could do to make cap flexibility a standardized asset instead of needing to do it through these silly loopholes. They’re begging for a lawsuit when the delay for one of these surgeries to time it for game 1 causes unnecessary medical complications.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

This thread cracks me up.

Vegas shouldn't do that.
> Is it illegal under league rules?
No.
> Could other teams do it?
Sure, I guess.
> Then why don't they?
Cause we're not cheaters!!!