Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (F) - PART III

[OD99]

Boucher is listed at 6'1 205 lbs. He is already a similar size to Chris Neil (6'1 209 lbs) and Cal Clutterbuck (6' 212 lbs) and both had no problem laying massive hits with their size. He also isn't that far off from Ryan Reaves (6'2 225 lbs) and Nic Deslauriers (6'1 220 lbs). Boucher could end up being 220-225 lbs at his peak if that is an optimal weight for him to play at. He shouldn't have much issue getting up to that weight range if that is what he decides to do.

This season he was laying massive hits against NCAA players so he is already physically imposing against grown men at the age of 18. He has very good speed, angling and timing to land big hits so that will translate to the next level. If he would have played some pre-season or regular season games in the NHL this season it would be highly likely that he would have a few big hits.

I don't really see any reason to question whether he will be able to throw big hits and provide intimidation and momentum from them at the NHL level. What is uncertain is what his production will look like and whether or not he will be an intimidating fighter.

From what I can find Boucher is bang on the average size for an NHL player. Yes he may add some weight but given he is already physically mature I wouldn't count on him adding 10% more to his frame without sacrificing some speed.

I don't dispute he can make some big hits but almost anyone can do that if that is all they can focus on. Yes, he is built well and he does hit harder than most - he clearly enjoys that aspect of the game. Realistically though you need the opportunity for a big hit and how many times a game does that come up?

As for the other guys you mentioned:

Cal scored 35 goals and was PPG in his draft year then blew that away D+1
Neil had 26 goals and was PPG in his draft year then exceeded that D+1 plus was tough as nails
Reaves took what, 7 years to make the NHL and was one of the toughest players in the league immediately while putting up 54 goals in 755 games
Nic Deslauriers also took 7 years to make the NHL and doesn't really have much of an impact. He has 44 goals in 505 games

The other thing is Clutterbuck was taken 2nd half of the 3rd round with Nic toward the end and then Reaves and Neil are 7th and 6th round. Far cry from 10th overall.

That said, draft position is irrelevant now so scrap that. My point is more that the guys above showed more diversity to their games, mainly in the toughness category.

These are the other elements I look at when trying to project Boucher but again I am going in to this season optimistic that he will find his scoring tough after a proper off season and beginning the year with Senators camps then 67's camp. I will reassess my thoughts on his future after that.

 

[JungleBeat]

Boucher is listed at 6'1 205 lbs. He is already a similar size to Chris Neil (6'1 209 lbs) and Cal Clutterbuck (6' 212 lbs) and both had no problem laying massive hits with their size. He also isn't that far off from Ryan Reaves (6'2 225 lbs) and Nic Deslauriers (6'1 220 lbs). Boucher could end up being 220-225 lbs at his peak if that is an optimal weight for him to play at. He shouldn't have much issue getting up to that weight range if that is what he decides to do.

You know a top 10 pick isn't tracking well when ppl start comparing them to scrubs.

 

[aragorn]

See my thing with Boucher is I don't see this ability translating to the NHL and it seems the #1 skill that people are hoping he is, "elite" at.

Yes he plays physical but he 6' and 200lbs. He isn't some monster that is going to intimidate opposition and if he doesn't find his scoring touch he won't be in the NHL in anything other than as a deep, role player. It's one thing to be an energy player but another to be an impact player.

Is anyone going to say we made the right choice if he becomes a 4th line energy guy?

In a 67s game I watched he put a kid through the glass & while they were taking the kid to the dressing room the ice crew had to replace the glass. All the announcers could talk about was his strength to make a check like that at his age & the opposing team had plenty of time to sit there & think about what happened to their teammate.

No one came after Boucher after that hit from the opposing team, no one. He's put several players out of games with big hits, of course players are going to keep their heads up when he is on the ice for their own safety. Big hits are momentum changers, knocking a good player out of the lineup can change momentum & give a team a better chance of winning when one team is down a good player.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

From what I can find Boucher is bang on the average size for an NHL player. Yes he may add some weight but given he is already physically mature I wouldn't count on him adding 10% more to his frame without sacrificing some speed.

I don't dispute he can make some big hits but almost anyone can do that if that is all they can focus on. Yes, he is built well and he does hit harder than most - he clearly enjoys that aspect of the game. Realistically though you need the opportunity for a big hit and how many times a game does that come up?

As for the other guys you mentioned:

Cal scored 35 goals and was PPG in his draft year then blew that away D+1
Neil had 26 goals and was PPG in his draft year then exceeded that D+1 plus was tough as nails
Reaves took what, 7 years to make the NHL and was one of the toughest players in the league immediately while putting up 54 goals in 755 games
Nic Deslauriers also took 7 years to make the NHL and doesn't really have much of an impact. He has 44 goals in 505 games

The other thing is Clutterbuck was taken 2nd half of the 3rd round with Nic toward the end and then Reaves and Neil are 7th and 6th round. Far cry from 10th overall.

That said, draft position is irrelevant now so scrap that. My point is more that the guys above showed more diversity to their games, mainly in the toughness category.

These are the other elements I look at when trying to project Boucher but again I am going in to this season optimistic that he will find his scoring tough after a proper off season and beginning the year with Senators camps then 67's camp. I will reassess my thoughts on his future after that.

Why would adding more size to his frame necessitate a loss of speed? Some of the fastest players in the league are over 220 lbs. Through proper training a player can actually get faster as they add more mass. Also with hockey (as with many sports) acceleration might be more important than speed. A lot of situations require the ability to close gaps quickly over short distances or conversely gain gaps quickly over relatively short distances. Players that can create that separation and close those gaps quickly are at a pretty big advantage over those that can't. As long as Boucher emphasizes the development and maintenance of his explosiveness, agility and ability to accelerate quickly with his mass development then he should be fine. His increased mass will likely come from trying to optimize his power output so the added mass will be fine.

I think where the confusion might lie is the sometimes people conflate adding mass with bodybuilding as opposed to the result of powerlifting. Bodybuilding is a preferable approach to gaining mass but the majority of its training methods actually decrease athleticism. Bodybuilding has a heavy emphasis on slower movements and in isolating muscle groups. They train for aesthetic purposes and not athletic ones. The result is that they lose a lot of mobility and their muscles do not work in unison together and may even work against each other in athletic movements. Powerlifting and Olympic lifting are compound movements that maximize power and explosiveness. They are conducive with athletic movements.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

You know a top 10 pick isn't tracking well when ppl start comparing them to scrubs.

Maybe you should consider assessing the context of statements before adding your responses. The context was specifically in refence to how his physicality would translate at the NHL level. Neil and Clutterbuck were used to demonstrate how Boucher is close to their size and how both of those players were very effective punishing hitters in the NHL. Reaves and Deslauriers were used as examples of physically imposing players in the league today who are larger than Boucher is currently but that he could be as big as in the peak of his career.

 

[OD99]

Why would adding more size to his frame necessitate a loss of speed? Some of the fastest players in the league are over 220 lbs.

Who?

Through proper training a player can actually get faster as they add more mass. Also with hockey (as with many sports) acceleration might be more important than speed. A lot of situations require the ability to close gaps quickly over short distances or conversely gain gaps quickly over relatively short distances. Players that can create that separation and close those gaps quickly are at a pretty big advantage over those that can't. As long as Boucher emphasizes the development and maintenance of his explosiveness, agility and ability to accelerate quickly with his mass development then he should be fine. His increased mass will likely come from trying to optimize his power output so the added mass will be fine.

I think where the confusion might lie is the sometimes people conflate adding mass with bodybuilding as opposed to the result of powerlifting. Bodybuilding is a preferable approach to gaining mass but the majority of its training methods actually decrease athleticism. Bodybuilding has a heavy emphasis on slower movements and in isolating muscle groups. They train for aesthetic purposes and not athletic ones. The result is that they lose a lot of mobility and their muscles do not work in unison together and may even work against each other in athletic movements. Powerlifting and Olympic lifting are compound movements that maximize power and explosiveness. They are conducive with athletic movements.

There are just loads of instances in the NHL where increased size equals slower.

Batherson on our team is a good example and then you see guys skimming down for more speed a lot.

My original point was specific to him already being 205lbs and you suggested he add another 20lbs to that. Gaining 10% of your body weight in good muscle isn't easy when you are already physically mature.

 

[R2010]

If he somehow does end up being developed into a 50 point player then I don't think we will see many complaints about drafting him. But at this point he has a lot he needs to demonstrate for that to become a realistic outcome. Hopefully we start seeing some more indications of that ability at the upcoming development camp.

Yeah future 50 point players in the NHL rarely perform like he did D+1.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Neil was one of the most intimidating players in the league at like 6’1” 210. It’s a mindset that makes the difference, not a few inches and a few pounds.

We’ll see what he ends up being, but I like having guys that love to hit, it’s pretty rare these days to have guys that hit to hurt.

To me this discussion is just going in circles. Lots of people in here want to argue how bad a pick it was, how limited his skills are, and are vocal about that, while other people continue to be intrigued about his potential and are looking forward to seeing a bounce back year next year. There is room for both opinions, and everything in between, but no one is changing their stance right now no matter how many times things get repeated.

As is often the case it’s the positive outlook vs the negative outlook, and the playing styles that individual fans prefer. It’s all good.

In the end I hope everyone can agree that we all want the young man to succeed for us and for him.

 

[Sweatred]

From what I can find Boucher is bang on the average size for an NHL player. Yes he may add some weight but given he is already physically mature I wouldn't count on him adding 10% more to his frame without sacrificing some speed.

I don't dispute he can make some big hits but almost anyone can do that if that is all they can focus on. Yes, he is built well and he does hit harder than most - he clearly enjoys that aspect of the game. Realistically though you need the opportunity for a big hit and how many times a game does that come up?

As for the other guys you mentioned:

Cal scored 35 goals and was PPG in his draft year then blew that away D+1
Neil had 26 goals and was PPG in his draft year then exceeded that D+1 plus was tough as nails
Reaves took what, 7 years to make the NHL and was one of the toughest players in the league immediately while putting up 54 goals in 755 games
Nic Deslauriers also took 7 years to make the NHL and doesn't really have much of an impact. He has 44 goals in 505 games

The other thing is Clutterbuck was taken 2nd half of the 3rd round with Nic toward the end and then Reaves and Neil are 7th and 6th round. Far cry from 10th overall.

That said, draft position is irrelevant now so scrap that. My point is more that the guys above showed more diversity to their games, mainly in the toughness category.

These are the other elements I look at when trying to project Boucher but again I am going in to this season optimistic that he will find his scoring tough after a proper off season and beginning the year with Senators camps then 67's camp. I will reassess my thoughts on his future after that.

How many forwards in Ottawa can deliver a big hit with any type of consistency… Basically Brady and Watson (expiring) which is why we drafted Boucher.

 

[branch]

How many forwards in Ottawa can deliver a big hit with any type of consistency… Basically Brady and Watson (expiring) which is why we drafted Boucher.

At 10 overall? LOL

 

[Wallet Inspector]

How many forwards in Ottawa can deliver a big hit with any type of consistency… Basically Brady and Watson (expiring) which is why we drafted Boucher.

Bruh we were 1st in hits last year and finished bottom 10.

Physicality is important but spending 1st rounders on limited offense physical forwards is idiotic.

 

[OD99]

How many forwards in Ottawa can deliver a big hit with any type of consistency… Basically Brady and Watson (expiring) which is why we drafted Boucher.

Naaaa...you know this isn't a valid argument.

There are loads of guys in the AHL you could bring up if you just need someone quick and willing to throw their body around. It is the least skillful thing you can do in hockey. He clearly hasn't panned out as they expected. There is no doubt with their comments about his hard shot and ability to score from distance they expected him to be an offensive player in addition to his hitting.

So far that hasn't happened and if it doesn't then this is a going to be a dud.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

How many forwards in Ottawa can deliver a big hit with any type of consistency… Basically Brady and Watson (expiring) which is why we drafted Boucher.

he can lay big hits against against kids with consistency. who knows about him being able to hit NHLers consistently like that.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We drafted him because the scouts think he can be an impact top six power forward.

The player has been drafted, it’s up to him now, with some guidance and support, to meet his potential.

End of story.

 

[Sweatred]

Bruh we were 1st in hits last year and finished bottom 10.

Physicality is important but spending 1st rounders on limited offense physical forwards is idiotic.

We were first in soft hits - that’s irrelevant.

 

[Mingus Dew]

We were first in soft hits - that’s irrelevant.

I don't think that's an actual metric that the NHL tracks chief.

 

[Sweatred]

Naaaa...you know this isn't a valid argument.

There are loads of guys in the AHL you could bring up if you just need someone quick and willing to throw their body around. It is the least skillful thing you can do in hockey. He clearly hasn't panned out as they expected. There is no doubt with their comments about his hard shot and ability to score from distance they expected him to be an offensive player in addition to his hitting.

So far that hasn't happened and if it doesn't then this is a going to be a dud.

This isn’t remotely true. It takes a unique skill set to play 15 min a game and deliver consistent physical play.

I think I watched 50 games this year before I saw the formenton hit someone. We heard he was a physical force in the AHL. He was a non factor in the nhl (physically).

Beyond Brady, none of Bath, Norris, Pinto, Stutzle, Brown etc will be hitting anyone with any regularity. Their shoulders can’t take it… It remains to be seen if Greig, Formy and co will evolve into someone willing AND able. Parker will run at a few guys but he’s a 4th liner getting limited minutes.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

We were first in soft hits - that’s irrelevant.

Lmao come on.

 

[SpezDispenser]

No one can say anything about him until we see how he does in a full season in the OHL. Then we'll re-assess. And even then, he needs a few years with Mann in Belleville too.

It's still a head scratching pick though. We NEEDED that pick to be an impact player, not the hopes of one one day. Makes trading the 7th OV a lot harder, which was unnecessary.

Anyway...

 

[Sweatred]

It does suck that we don’t have any first round forward projected to enter the lineup - since the Brady draft we’ve only got production from one first rounder.

JBD
Lassi
Stutzle
Sanderson
Greig
Boucher

In the same time the Rangers have production from at least 6 1RD picks.

Laf
Kakko
Miller
Schneider
Chytil
Andersson

And I’m probably missing some… and Othman is close.

 

[branch]

I don't think that's an actual metric that the NHL tracks chief.

Yes it is. It's reported after the "Soft Dumps In The Corner" metric

 

[Sweatred]

Yes it is. It's reported after the "Soft Dumps In The Corner" metric

Yes … a soft hit and a hard hit appear the same to the Google Hockey Evaluators.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Yes it is. It's reported after the "Soft Dumps In The Corner" metric

Getting pucks in deep per 60.

 

[OD99]

This isn’t remotely true. It takes a unique skill set to play 15 min a game and deliver consistent physical play.

I think I watched 50 games this year before I saw the formenton hit someone. We heard he was a physical force in the AHL. He was a non factor in the nhl (physically).

Beyond Brady, none of Bath, Norris, Pinto, Stutzle, Brown etc will be hitting anyone with any regularity. Their shoulders can’t take it… It remains to be seen if Greig, Formy and co will evolve into someone willing AND able. Parker will run at a few guys but he’s a 4th liner getting limited minutes.

He is projecting to be a 4th liner at best so far. He won't be getting 15 minutes a game to just run around and hit.

No clue what Formenton has to do with this, he is a far superior player and doesn't have to rely on just hitting as he has puck skills and elite speed.

There is no reality where picking a guy at 10th overall to hit people make sense. Again - how many opportunities does a player get to lay an, "elite, impact" hit anyway? If he gets 4 hits a game that would lead the NHL but he probably gets a highlight hit 5 or 6 times a year. NHL players are big, fast and elusive.

The AHL is littered with guys who would gladly bleed every game to be in the NHL so of course there are loads who would just run around but they still need to be able to make contact.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Who?

There are just loads of instances in the NHL where increased size equals slower.

Batherson on our team is a good example and then you see guys skimming down for more speed a lot.

My original point was specific to him already being 205lbs and you suggested he add another 20lbs to that. Gaining 10% of your body weight in good muscle isn't easy when you are already physically mature.

Well for one Chris Kreider. He regularly takes place in the fastest skater competition in the all star game and tends to rank pretty high. Alex Ovechkin and Josh Anderson are pretty fast as well. I would need to do some research to offer a more comprehensive list but there are certainly very fast players both in the league currently and in the past that have been over 220 lbs.

As for physical maturity just because he is more physically mature than other prospects doesn't mean he has reached his genetic athletic potential. I think it is a bit of a misconception when evaluating prospects to assume that just because a prospect is more physically developed than other prospects and that there isn't a lot more room for them to become substantially more physically developed.

Boucher is 19 years old and was listed at 6'1 205 lbs at 18 years old when he was drafted. He could get a lot heavier and substantially more powerful.

The average age of peak performance for male Olympic weightlifters is 26 years old.
Performance Development From Youth to Senior and Age of Peak Performance in Olympic Weightlifting.

The average age of peak performance for powerlifters is 34 years old.
At what age are we the strongest? Surprising truth
How old are the best athletes in weightlifting and powerlifting

According to some of the research there the average age of peak performance for specific lifts is:
Snatch (26.4 years), Clean & Jerk (26.1 years), Bench Press (34.3 years), Squat (34.1 years) and Deadlift (33.5 years)

If the most powerful athletes in the world who dedicate themselves full time to power development don't peak in performance until those age ranges then it doesn't make sense to assume that an 18 or 19 year old hockey player has peaked or come close to peaking their power potential.

The fact that Boucher is so dedicated to physical development makes him more likely to reach his peak power potential than others who aren't as dedicated. It is also quite likely that his gap in power relative to his peers at a similar age will likely remain the same and potentially grow larger over the course of his career.