Player Discussion Trent Frederic

[Over the volcano]

No idea how he calculates that stuff but the defensive #'s are off the charts. Exactly the kind of thing you like to see from a 3rd liner

 

[LSCII]

That’s a pretty harsh assessment. I like freddy

That's the thing. My critique on Freddy isn't specific to him. It's specific to the role he plays. I generally dislike the idea of overpaying for bottom of the roster types. That's how you get yourself into cap jail. Which we saw when they had to dump Hall for cap relief because Sweeney overpaid Forbort, Reilly, etc the year before. Seeing useful players like Bertuzzi leave and take a short term low dollar deal elsewhere was another example of why you don't pay those end of the roster players more than they're worth.

No idea how he calculates that stuff but the defensive #'s are off the charts. Exactly the kind of thing you like to see from a 3rd liner

And that's just more proof why advance stats are silly. Because if you watched him play, there's no shot in hell you'd say he's a defensive savant like the stats they're using do. It's like a few years back when advanced stats said Loui Eriksson was one of the best players in the entire league, when in reality he was nowhere close to even being one of the best players on the Bruins roster let alone the league.

 

[Over the volcano]

And that's just more proof why advance stats are silly. Because if you watched him play, there's no shot in hell you'd say he's a defensive savant like the stats they're using do. It's like a few years back when advanced stats said Loui Eriksson was one of the best players in the entire league, when in reality he was nowhere close to even being one of the best players on the Bruins roster let alone the league.

I get the idea of discrediting stats that don't fit an argument.

I do think his defensive game is ++. It's in his DNA and development going all the way back to his role in the NTDP teams. In Boston I've seen him hesitating on jumping some offensive chances because of it IMO.

I've been looking for an even strength goal against/60 stat to measure him by and can't find one out there. Let me know if that exists somewhere

 

[LSCII]

I get the idea of discrediting stats that don't fit an argument.

I do think his defensive game is ++ and see him missing some offense because of it when watching him live. I've been looking for an even strength goal against/60 stat to measure him by and can't find one out there.

Nah, you think this is personal and it's not. I discredit advanced stats for any player because I think most folks use them incorrectly, simply to justify a position they've taken, and disregard the context. Nothing specific to Freddy and everything to do with the poster.

 

[Over the volcano]

Nah, you think this is personal and it's not. I discredit advanced stats for any player because I think most folks use them incorrectly, simply to justify a position they've taken, and disregard the context. Nothing specific to Freddy and everything to do with the poster.

Sure

 

[NDiesel]

That's the thing. My critique on Freddy isn't specific to him. It's specific to the role he plays. I generally dislike the idea of overpaying for bottom of the roster types. That's how you get yourself into cap jail. Which we saw when they had to dump Hall for cap relief because Sweeney overpaid Forbort, Reilly, etc the year before. Seeing useful players like Bertuzzi leave and take a short term low dollar deal elsewhere was another example of why you don't pay those end of the roster players more than they're worth.


And that's just more proof why advance stats are silly. Because if you watched him play, there's no shot in hell you'd say he's a defensive savant like the stats they're using do. It's like a few years back when advanced stats said Loui Eriksson was one of the best players in the entire league, when in reality he was nowhere close to even being one of the best players on the Bruins roster let alone the league.

Do you honestly think that 2.3 mil for 2 years is going to cause cap issues for them? even if you replace him at league min, 1.5 mil isnt enough to retain a guy like Bert or Hall.

 

[Dr Hook]

I generally dislike the idea of overpaying for bottom of the roster types. That's how you get yourself into cap jail. Which we saw when they had to dump Hall for cap relief because Sweeney overpaid Forbort, Reilly, etc the year before. Seeing useful players like Bertuzzi leave and take a short term low dollar deal elsewhere was another example of why you don't pay those end of the roster players more than they're worth.

I 100% agree with you on this, and unfortunately Sweeney has at times spent too much on bottom 6/bottom pairing guys. No need to re-hash the list. That said, I think Frederic is different at this stage of things. He's 24 and has some potential upside. He's improved as an overall player each year. Nothing earth-shattering, but steady. Two years at this rate is good investment in my view, because they can bury nearly half should it come to that, and are off the hook relatively quickly if he doesn't show any more growth. If he does become a solid, established 3rd line/second line tweener like Coyle (I think he stands a chance), they can pay him accordingly in term and dollars. If not, it's not an issue to cut bait at the end of two years.

 

[22Brad Park]

2.3 to me seems fair because he had to get a raise right?.He had 17 goals and should be better this season having more experience at least in my mind .

 

[PlayMakers]

I get the idea of discrediting stats that don't fit an argument.

I do think his defensive game is ++. It's in his DNA and development going all the way back to his role in the NTDP teams. In Boston I've seen him hesitating on jumping some offensive chances because of it IMO.

I've been looking for an even strength goal against/60 stat to measure him by and can't find one out there. Let me know if that exists somewhere

His GA/60 was 5th best on the team behind Bergeron, Marchand, Nosek and Foligno. Natural Stat Trick .com

Fwiw I think the numbers reinforce the eye test on this one. Frederic has an excellent stick and disrupts a lot of the other team’s offense with it. He was that line‘s best backchecker and had a few beauties like when he caught MacKinnon a couple times in the Avs game at home, and he’s excellent positionally, often rotating into the center’s role because he’s the first back to the Dzone.

He earned those strong defensive numbers IMO and deserves a bigger role on the PK next year.

 

[PatriceBergeron]

Yup. Signing Patrick Brown, trading away Taylor Hall for Ian Mitchell, and re-signing his own RFA at a price more than 58% of fans in this poll predicted totally equals crushing it!

2022-23 Regular Season Champs
2023- Offseason Champs

It’s like no matter what moves they made they should be considered master tacticians because they managed to get under the cap.

- James van Riemsdyk is in the top 6
- The projected 3rd line is Lauko-Geekie-Frederic
- Their best center on the team is Pavel Zacha
- The bottom pair is Derek Forbort and Kevin Shattenkirk
- Matt Grzcelyk is in the top 4

I don’t understand anyone praising the results of this offseason.

 

[Fenian24]

Below is every forward who scored 17 or 16 goals last year and their cap hits for this year. I removed defensemen. Freddy looks like a pretty good value to me. Frederic also had the lowest time on ice.

Also according to advanced stats Frederic is a stellar defensive forward.

Name	Age	Position	Games	Goals	Assists	Points	TOI	Cap Hit
Mark Stone	​ 31	RW	43	17	21	38	19:22	$9,500,000
Valeri Nichushkin	28	RW, LW	53	17	30	47	20:16	$6,125,000
Nick Bjugstad	30	C, RW	78	17	12	29	16:12	$2,100,000
Jordan Staal	34	C, LW	81	17	17	34	16:16	$2,900,000
Nicholas Paul	28	C, LW	80	17	15	32	16:09	$3,150,000
J.T. Compher	28	C, RW	82	17	35	52	20:32	$5,100,000
Trent Frederic	25	LW, RW	79	17	14	31	11:55	$2,300,000
Conor Garland	27	RW, LW	81	17	29	46	15:06	$4,950,000
Andrew Mangiapane	27	RW, LW	82	17	26	43	16:49	$5,800,000
Pierre Engvall	27	RW, LW	76	17	13	30	13:37	$3,000,000
Eetu Luostarinen	24	LW, C	82	17	26	43	15:59	$1,500,000
Lucas Raymond	21	RW, LW	74	17	28	45	17:22	$925,000
Mason McTavish	20	C, LW	80	17	26	43	15:22	$894,167
Kyle Palmieri	32	RW, LW	55	16	17	33	17:05	$5,000,000
Blake Wheeler	36	RW, C	72	16	39	55	17:02	$800,000
Taylor Hall	31	LW	61	16	20	36	15:55	$6,000,000
Sam Bennett	27	C	63	16	24	40	17:24	$4,425,000
Ryan O'Reilly	32	C	53	16	14	30	17:56	$4,500,000
Chandler Stephenson	29	C, LW	81	16	49	65	19:01	$2,750,000
William Carrier	28	LW	56	16	9	25	12:35	$1,400,000
Evander Kane	31	LW, RW	41	16	12	28	18:42	$5,125,000
Charlie Coyle	31	C, RW	82	16	29	45	16:59	$5,250,000
Ivan Barbashev	27	LW, C	82	16	29	45	16:45	$5,000,000
Evan Rodrigues	29	C, LW	69	16	23	39	17:51	$3,000,000
Michael Amadio	27	W, C,	67	16	11	27	12:12	$762,500
Brandon Tanev	31	LW, RW	82	16	19	35	14:13	$3,500,000
Ross Colton	26	LW, C	81	16	16	32	12:21	$4,000,000

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Definitely his biggest room for improvement next season - if they make it to the playoffs he needs to do something more than he has thus far.

PO production by far his biggest failing. Benched 3 straight years and has
0 goals in 16 AHL\NHL PO games.

 

[hrdpuk]

Sweeney has overpaid some players Frederic isn't one of them.
Well deserved raise.

 

[JCRO]

I’m not much of a Freddy guy but I have no issue with the number.

I do want to see him continue to improve and show that last year wasn’t just the result of playing on a record setting team. I think the teams going to lean on him more this year than in years past so it’s time to show why you got the doe Freddy.

 

[LSCII]

Do you honestly think that 2.3 mil for 2 years is going to cause cap issues for them? even if you replace him at league min, 1.5 mil isnt enough to retain a guy like Bert or Hall.

In a one off scenario, no. In a scenario where they consistently overpay the bottom of the roster types, yes. As we've already seen this past off season. It's exactly why good players left and were moved for poor returns and replaced with lesser players.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

In a one off scenario, no. In a scenario where they consistently overpay the bottom of the roster types, yes. As we've already seen this past off season. It's exactly why good players left and were moved for poor returns and replaced with lesser players.

Agreed.

And if Frederic reverts back to his numbers pre-last season, this contract will be one that is frequently referenced as a roadblock.

I hope he is able to continue his progress and replicate his success from last season somewhat. It's going to be difficult, but he's grown a lot as player. Can he thrive as the best player on his line?

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Nah, you think this is personal and it's not. I discredit advanced stats for any player because I think most folks use them incorrectly, simply to justify a position they've taken, and disregard the context. Nothing specific to Freddy and everything to do with the poster.

Since you are so fed up with people misinterpreting what those JFresh player cards are saying, can you in your own words explain what information that Trent Frederic player card is trying to convey?

 

[NDiesel]

In a one off scenario, no. In a scenario where they consistently overpay the bottom of the roster types, yes. As we've already seen this past off season. It's exactly why good players left and were moved for poor returns and replaced with lesser players.

Fair enough...I think (hope) Frederic is different than a Reilly or Forbort signing since he still has some upside, while those two were already developed into what they were at that point and a league min vet probably brings what they could have.

 

[LSCII]

Agreed.

And if Frederic reverts back to his numbers pre-last season, this contract will be one that is frequently referenced as a roadblock.

I hope he is able to continue his progress and replicate his success from last season somewhat. It's going to be difficult, but he's grown a lot as player. Can he thrive as the best player on his line?

You and me both.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

PO production by far his biggest failing. Benched 3 straight years and has
0 goals in 16 AHL\NHL PO games.

I'm a 'Freddy guy' for the most part but that it is the one stat that still frightens me, hopefully it was just a coincidence I guesss.

 

[LSCII]

Below is every forward who scored 17 or 16 goals last year and their cap hits for this year. I removed defensemen. Freddy looks like a pretty good value to me. Frederic also had the lowest time on ice.

Also according to advanced stats Frederic is a stellar defensive forward.

Name	Age	Position	Games	Goals	Assists	Points	TOI	Cap Hit
Mark Stone	​ 31	RW	43	17	21	38	19:22	$9,500,000
Valeri Nichushkin	28	RW, LW	53	17	30	47	20:16	$6,125,000
Nick Bjugstad	30	C, RW	78	17	12	29	16:12	$2,100,000
Jordan Staal	34	C, LW	81	17	17	34	16:16	$2,900,000
Nicholas Paul	28	C, LW	80	17	15	32	16:09	$3,150,000
J.T. Compher	28	C, RW	82	17	35	52	20:32	$5,100,000
Trent Frederic	25	LW, RW	79	17	14	31	11:55	$2,300,000
Conor Garland	27	RW, LW	81	17	29	46	15:06	$4,950,000
Andrew Mangiapane	27	RW, LW	82	17	26	43	16:49	$5,800,000
Pierre Engvall	27	RW, LW	76	17	13	30	13:37	$3,000,000
Eetu Luostarinen	24	LW, C	82	17	26	43	15:59	$1,500,000
Lucas Raymond	21	RW, LW	74	17	28	45	17:22	$925,000
Mason McTavish	20	C, LW	80	17	26	43	15:22	$894,167
Kyle Palmieri	32	RW, LW	55	16	17	33	17:05	$5,000,000
Blake Wheeler	36	RW, C	72	16	39	55	17:02	$800,000
Taylor Hall	31	LW	61	16	20	36	15:55	$6,000,000
Sam Bennett	27	C	63	16	24	40	17:24	$4,425,000
Ryan O'Reilly	32	C	53	16	14	30	17:56	$4,500,000
Chandler Stephenson	29	C, LW	81	16	49	65	19:01	$2,750,000
William Carrier	28	LW	56	16	9	25	12:35	$1,400,000
Evander Kane	31	LW, RW	41	16	12	28	18:42	$5,125,000
Charlie Coyle	31	C, RW	82	16	29	45	16:59	$5,250,000
Ivan Barbashev	27	LW, C	82	16	29	45	16:45	$5,000,000
Evan Rodrigues	29	C, LW	69	16	23	39	17:51	$3,000,000
Michael Amadio	27	W, C,	67	16	11	27	12:12	$762,500
Brandon Tanev	31	LW, RW	82	16	19	35	14:13	$3,500,000
Ross Colton	26	LW, C	81	16	16	32	12:21	$4,000,000

This would only be useful if you had it normalized to people's salaries that had only one 17ish goal season. Including players like Stone or O'Reilly for example skews it because those guys consistently have scored over 20 goals for most of their careers so by default they naturally have larger salaries than a one time 17 goal scorer.

 

[sarge88]

Swayman got a few hundred thousand less than I expected and Freddy got a few more.

Evens out.

 

[LSCII]

Since you are so fed up with people misinterpreting what those JFresh player cards are saying, can you in your own words explain what information that Trent Frederic player card is trying to convey?

Did you find yourself watching Freddy's game last year and remarking how tremendous he was defensively? Honest question. Would love to hear your answer. It's a yes or a no though. Nuance and grasping at straws to justify it are nothing but extraneous attempts to make the card fit the narrative. So yes or no, were you thinking to yourself during games "what a defensive stalwart this dude is"? Was he one of the guys that had to be on the ice at the end of the game? Was his defensive game so good that he was an anchor on the PK?

If so, you saw something in him nobody else did, including the coaching staff. If you saw otherwise like everyone else that watched the actual games, the card is pushing a narrative that is simply not accurate or representative of his overall defensive contributions.

Swayman got a few hundred thousand less than I expected and Freddy got a few more.

Evens out.

And that's a fair take. I personally would have thought the reverse should have happened but it is what it is.

 

[BiteThisBurrows]

When has he really ever taken on a heavyweight though? He typically picks non-fighters and middleweights to go with. Pretty much a spot picker.

I will let Trent respond to that himself.

 

[LSCII]

I will let Trent respond to that himself.

And Lucic fought Colton Orr when he was a Bruin one time, where he hung on for dear life. Does that make Lucic the same as Orr was? My point stands.