Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Literally every offseason hypothetical here involves the acquisition of Gavrikov.

Who they are about to extend. Its fun to dream i guess.

 

[haohmaru]

Lets break this down.

For the sake of the argument I will read your 2+ statement as 3 seasons.

22/23 - 39 goals, 91 points
23/24 - 26 goals, 72 points
24/25 - 20 goals, 62 points (since jan 1st, 41 points in 46 games)

Nobody in their right mind would call his 22/23 season trash. I will give you 23/24 even though I see it more as a down season. That leaves us with the 1st half of 24/25 where he truly was trash and a second half where he was productive.

A more fair assessment would be to say he have had 2 dissapointing seasons including an awful 1st half this season.

He had 33 points in his last 32 games.

 

[RangerBoy]

EF discussed the Rangers on the new 32T pod. Huge pod. Every team which missed the playoffs and all of the playoff series.



Panarin situation is a bad look. EF is 100% correct. A player lured a female team employee to his room. The public knows what happened after the Strang story and we will see what happens next.

The Rangers need to have honest discussions with their players. Who really wants to be here? The Rangers can't have a repeat of this season.

Zibanejad's situation. He can say whatever he wants about the NMC. If the Rangers don't feel Mika can turn the page and move on, Mika can't stay here. EF didn't bring up Kreider's situation but if Mika will be sad about Kreider not being there, he can't stay here.

Bad season for the organization.

Coaching decision.

Roster. Bad year this season and they will bpunce back next season or was 23-24 a fluke season and 24-25 is a more accurate record for the team.

Kenny Holland may get another job as POHO. The league sentiment is Ryan Martin will join him as GM. I read Holland is working for the NHL after he left Edmonton last summer. I heard the Hawks may hire Holland to work with Kyle Davidson. Dreger mentioned that a Flames pod on YT. Does Holland fire Davidson and hire Martin in Chicago?

They brought up the caoaching instability. Even Dolan will tell you that's a lot of money to be paying coaches to sit at home. The assistant coaches have conttacts too. Dolan is not an owner who will tolerate these type of seasons. He will makes changes. EF didn't mention anything about Drury's job status.

Dolan's GM hired these coaches. Laviolette has another season remaining. $4.9M. Gallant made $3.5M to watch games on TV. It seems Drury will need to hire another AGM. Another coach and assistants. Another AGM.

Dolan needs to clean house and hire a new GM. The majority of these players need to go. The country club atmosphere needs to be ended,.

The perfect coach for the Rangers is Kris Knoblauch. Too bad Kris works for the Oilers. He was right there for the Rangers. After failing with Gallant, Drury went back to the recycled coaches. Now it seems the Rangers don't want a recycled coach who has coached five other teams. Drury has set this franchise back with his stupid moves. He needs to be replaced.

 

[LionsHeart]

Every solution I keep thinking about comes back to “they’d better off tearing this thing to the studs and completely rebuild it.”

There’s a way to do this without completely doing that, but I have no faith Drury is the guy to deliver. The one thing they have going for them is the East isn’t good. A few moves and they’re back in the playoffs again.

 

[Profet]

Has Lavi been fired yet?

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Roobroeck had a heckuva first year in the AHL. Would be nice if we can have a long term inexpensive 4th line of
Edstrom-roobroeck-rempe

Bunch of heavy dudes who arent bad hockey players. Makes filling the rest of the lineup easier

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

The two moves id be trying to make this offseason would be

1) Kandre and othmann for sam girard and jack drury

2) kreider for zadorov, boston may be in a very quick re-tool that could take 1-2 years and probably prefer the 2 years left on kreider rather than the 5 left on zadorov

Blue line re-made over night

girard-fox
Zadorov-borgen
Jones/vaak-schneider

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The two moves id be trying to make this offseason would be

1) Kandre and othmann for sam girard and jack drury

2) kreider for zadorov, boston may be in a very quick re-tool that could take 1-2 years and probably prefer the 2 years left on kreider rather than the 5 left on zadorov

Blue line re-made over night

girard-fox
Zadorov-borgen
Jones/vaak-schneider

wow, this is really bad

drury, is that you?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I know I’ll catch some heat for this take, and that’s fine. But here it is: Zibanejad’s wife and daughter attend every home game, and honestly, it’s kind of annoying

Perhaps you should follow that intuition and not post your shitty take about him having a loving family.

Just a thought

 

[Harbour Dog]

A good Zone Scheme mitigates that, even if you have to say "A couple of guys are allowed to play jazz, but you're not," to most of the roster.

I don't want any guys who are allowed to float around. Works great for them to put up regular season points and earn big contracts, sucks when you play a team where every player is fully commited to winning puck battles and covering up on defense.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

well actually i mean yeah you definitely are

the man of “yeah rick nash’s kid’s just gonna have to suck it up” fame

 

[bhamill]

I judge the cusp of having a fully formed frontal cortex at 24/25 as more of "he is what he is."

I'm not saying "It's been five seasons" is disingenuous. Just that most players "flash" something at 22/23, and then "pop" a year or two later. Regardless of what age they started in the NHL. Laf really showed something last season and then turned back into a lump of clay.

This should be the most important off-season of his career, and my fear is that getting a pay day already will leave him less motivated. He "can" top 30G & 30A. We just paid him to do that consistently for a bunch of years even though he only "almost" did both once.

So I'm not even saying you're wrong. There's a real chance that for the next two seasons, he pulls the same "Almost 25G, almost 25A, not quite 50P" schtick.

I'm more comfortable saying a 25yo "is what he is" regardless of how many NHL seasons of service (or even draft position). Those guys that pop off at 27 for the first time always feel weird anyway.

Although, if you have the heart of Brodzinski, you can become more than your 25yo self at like 30! Just don't overpay those guys.

He showed it last season, including stepping up further in the playoffs, AND the first quarter of this season. It’s chicken or the egg impossible to prove either way but I see the total collapse of this team affecting him more than I think his decline in play caused all of the veteran players to tank… He’s 23. I agree it doesn’t matter how many years he’s been in the NHL, players aren’t finished products at 23. They aren’t even done physically or mentally developing.
It’s not like he hasn’t shown he has another level. Sell low on that at your own peril.

 

[noncents]

I have friends who are more casual followers or just not fans of the Rangers that are still in awe that this vaunted roster isn't good.

There are a lot of reasons for this phenomenon but a big one that I would like to address as we build is that our more middling forwards -the guys that aren't star scorers- aren't good all-around forwards and do nothing but score 45 points.

Lafreniere is good at finishing and finding an incisive pass. He sucks at everything else. He doesn't carry the puck well. He doesn't forecheck or cycle well. He's one of the worst defensive players in the NHL. Suggesting we put him on PP1 to get more scoring, assuming that holds, doesn't really solve the problem.

Cuylle is a terrible at defense and while he hits a lot, his impact on forechecking and cycling is limited for a player with that many hits. Granted, he doesn't play with anybody who's good at that. He's also not a pick carrier but again, who is? Panarin, that's it. We traded our only other decent one to Vancouver (and yes, I know he's made out of glass). I like Cuylle and I think he has the most potential with the right pieces around him but his limitations are things we're already bad at as a team.

BTW I'm counting Panarin and JT Miller as top tier scorers. That's probably generous to Miller but he scored a lot after the trade and I don't feel like rehashing it. Let's just say he's one of our scorers.

Nobody else justified their existence by scoring alone. Whatever Mika and Kreider did besides scoring kind of disappeared this year, especially Kreider who definitely used to be a good all-around player. Trocheck has the vibes of being a hustle guy but tbh he was always more offense-first than he gets pegged for.

For, again, a variety of reasons, they have some sexier than average names, which leads to certain expectations, but it's just not a very well put together group of forwards when you look at how their individual abilities fit together.

We have 12 forwards and 10 of them suck at carrying the puck (Panarin, and again, I'll give you Miller). ZERO of them have back-off speed. ZERO of them are great defensively. Only one of them tries to shoot for the volume and he's not even in the regular 12.

You could also say zero of them tend to live in the slot, but you know, teams try to take away the slot. It might be open more if we did anything well.

don't disagree with your diagnosis of mediocre offense here - especially as manifested in lack of puck carrying and lack of footspeed


but your claims of individual defensive deficiency are massively overstated. this isn't basketball where's player is being asked to defend at the point of attack. half of defending is being able to win board battles and transition the puck out of the Dzone efficiently.

install a defensive scheme suited to the personnel, commit to it, get the teams effort level raised, and see defensive metrics of individual players ride with the tide.

not saying there aren't boneheaded players who consistently lose the plot in the defensive zone, but they're not the majority of players and their negative impact can be mitigated far beyond what we've seen here the past few years.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

wow, this is really bad

drury, is that you?

You think we’d be getting the poor end of those deals?

 

[duhmetreE]

so woodcraft is the front runner?

I know it sounds dumb but I want someone in shape. That’s my metric just like drafting players with “strong” names lol

I like muse. PK was strong and he has a history with developing. I’d honestly give him a chance. I just want a fresh look.

Should have gotten Montgomery.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

You think we’d be getting the poor end of those deals?

a complete anchor in zadorov for five years and a tiny little guy i could fit in my pocket playing next to an already small guy on the top pair? that defense looks like the worst defense in the league lmao

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

so woodcraft is the front runner?

I know it sounds dumb but I want someone in shape. That’s my metric just like drafting players with “strong” names lol

I like muse. PK was strong and he has a history with developing. I’d honestly give him a chance. I just want a fresh look.

Should have gotten Montgomery.

it doesnt sound dumb it is dumb

guess andy reid should just f*** off

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

a complete anchor in zadorov for five years and a tiny little guy i could fit in my pocket playing next to an already small guy on the top pair? that defense looks like the worst defense in the league lmao

Zadorov-fox
Girard-borgen

Alot better than what we have now

 

[Fitzy]

Roobroeck had a heckuva first year in the AHL. Would be nice if we can have a long term inexpensive 4th line of
Edstrom-roobroeck-rempe

Bunch of heavy dudes who arent bad hockey players. Makes filling the rest of the lineup easier

I'm surprised his name hasn't come up more often. Berard will be an NHL player, Roobroeck and Sykora look like they might well be some day. BMB didn't score much but he's been touted as a possible 4C one day.

As usual, NYR look like we're back to having an interesting little cadre of role players for the bottom 6. Implementing them at the right tim should be really good for depth, although our 'Miller retool' might be done by the time some of them start to his their stride from 24-26 years old.

It's just getting the Third good center, and that 1B left defenseman that everyone knows we need, that will be the big challenges. I don't want to see any Reilly Smith or Carson Soucy half-measure moves. Lets develop the depth, and target the high end talent.

NYR should, by all rights, be after the best LD in UFA they can find. Trading Kreider/Panarin should give them the cap they need to go after a Gavrikov.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Zadorov-fox
Girard-borgen

Alot better than what we have now

with zadorov on the top pair we may as well have kept lindgren

he sucks

 

[duhmetreE]

My problem with the whole country club thing is that sometimes I feel we've convinced ourselves we have the only good team in the league that just doesn't try.

I don't hear it said about anybody else. Like, it's kind of a Rangers meme, tbh.

And I'm not saying this to discount effort, but if you're capable of playing right, you play right.

Granted, there's some ebb and flow. Players learn and adjust. There's some distance between your C game and your A game.

But how long has it been? How many coaches has it been? And even if we do tap into something, Florida took the best version of this group and still bent it up like a pretzel.

@chosen has been beating the drum for years, and he's right. It's personnel at the end of the day.

I get what you’re saying but country club meme comes from the org treating players like Saudi royalty. It’s as first class as it gets. The paid players lose their edge. You need to play with an edge.

It’s a combo of NY lifestyle, bad coaching, poor leadership and first class org. It’s just a soft environment as a whole. You can believe it or not but it did play some role imo

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

with zadorov on the top pair we may as well have kept lindgren

he sucks

He plays pretty damn well when the games mean most.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

He plays pretty damn well when the games mean most.

we aint gonna be playing games that mean shit if he’s averaging 22 minutes

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

This is my biggest gripe, from AV and through Lavy we never had a coach who adjusts. They all think their game plan is the best and refuses to make changes based on the players on the roster or the opponent. The players obv could not handle the man to man system in the d zone. Opposing players always found holes to get free. When Fl was crushing nyr in the playoffs, and if it wasn’t for Igor and a couple of lucky bounces they would’ve been out in 4, hell they wouldn’t have made it passed Carolina. This is why you need a coach who can actually formulate a plan and not be so stubborn to think their system works no matter what.

Fox: “we literally are confused”
Laviolette: “nah bro”

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Tom Renney was a good coach. He was just never going to be a Cup winning coach.

Torts and AV were good coaches. Warts and all. Either "could've" done it.

Quinn was an outside the box hire, but was worse than a wish dot com Renney. Happens.

GG was a decent choice. Unironically similar to Ruff and sorta letting the team play pond hockey. Short shelf life.

Lavi would've gone down in history as a good choice for us if he soured in year 3 instead of year 2.

Knoblach is looking like a "better Renney" which stings.

I have no idea who I'd want as the next coach. I just don't want this defensive scheme. I'd give an "outside the box" hire a chance, but there unfortunately wouldn't be much leash.

This opinion will go over like a lead balloon but I would hire back Steve Smith.
He’s paid his dues. He was an assistant under Knoblach. After Knoblach left he took the Wolf Pack deep with a depleted lineup. He has a great back story when it comes to overcoming disaster. As a player he won five Stanley Cups in his career.