GDT: Training Camp Discussion

[Sypher04]

Why is team guy not signed already. He’s going to walk away for nothing like so many that preceded him. Hard to expect proper management when they dug their hole so deep that they have to win or they are fired. Sign or trade before the season starts is the smart play.

I agree on sign or trade before the season begins, but most of the rest of what you wrote is just your own assumptions and not anything we need to entertain yet

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Morgan Rielly on his contract status heading into a UFA year: “You all know how I feel about being a Leaf, but there’s a business aspect to it.”

You could literally just replace Rielly with Hyman for the quote...I get the same vibes. Team and player like one another but can't make $$ work.

That is what’s going on. So trade him for Josh Manson and Max Jones type of deal. Fills the need better for us with a stay at home and developing Sandin with a bigger responsibility and ice time etc

 

[WTFMAN99]

No doubt Dubas inherited a pretty desirable, unprecedented situation but his successor will also be in a pretty good spot.
Difference IMO is, Dubas had tons of cap to do what he wanted while his successor will have a better roster but hands tied by limited cap space.

Not sure which is better, time will tell if we're being honest.

Level headed take...the lack of picks isn't ideal either but we will see.

I don't think Dubas only has 1 year left on the deal...and MLSE won't care, they'll eat the $$ if he fails this season.

 

[ACC1224]

I’d add the lack of picks will catch up with us soon.

All those 7th round gems will keep the pipeline loaded.

 

[DarkKnight]

Just heard on radio, Nylander is not vaccinated, but will be by opening night.

Will he be allowed with the team? That’s a wow for me, come on.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I agree on sign or trade before the season begins, but most of the rest of what you wrote is just your own paranoia and not anything we need to entertain yet

I don’t know man. When i start thinking they are talking about me in a huddle during the football game I’ll start worrying about it

 

[Fogelhund]

I call liars liars bud. Strange concept for you this freedom of speech thing isn’t it

lol. What is a strange concept is the perpetual anger. Being a sports fan is a pastime, something for fun. Clearly, this isn’t fun for you. Always the anger.

 

[DarkKnight]

All those 7th round gems will keep the pipeline loaded.

He’s done well with the picks he’s had, I’ve always given him some credit there, but he’s already mortgaged a lot, “went for it”, for no payoff whatsoever.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

lol. What is a strange concept is the perpetual anger. Being a sports fan is a pastime, something for fun. Clearly, this isn’t fun for you. Always the anger.

I don’t like liars stirring up crap about the team. You like snakes do you?

 

[Sypher04]

He’s done well with the pics he’s had, I’ve always given him some credit there, but he’s already mortgaged a lot, “went for it”, for no payoff whatsoever.

Hard to fault the rationale of going for it though, especially last year. It’s just unfortunate the group let him down. We absolutely had a good enough team to advance this past post season

 

[DarkKnight]

Hard to fault the rationale of going for it though, especially last year. It’s just unfortunate the group let him down. We absolutely had a good enough team to advance this past post season

He gave up a ton for a damaged goods player that he couldn’t even resign, no pass there for me.

 

[ToneDog]

Unless you'd be completely on board with us not bringing in a replacement for Rielly and not using his cap space going into the playoffs this stance is fundamentally irrational.

You mean the same way we brought in Ritchie to replace our #1 LWer?? Sure I get it, you can replace your UFAs with UFAs but I do not believe it makes the team better in most cases. In the Brodie and Bogo cases, it worked because Barrie and Ceci were garbage but Rielly is a top 2 dman which are harder to replace.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Hard to fault the rationale of going for it though, especially last year. It’s just unfortunate the group let him down. We absolutely had a good enough team to advance this past post season

We had a soft team for years under Dubas.https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-newfound-toughness-2021-22-success/

 

[ToneDog]

Except that's not a fact. Rielly had more time on the PP in the playoffs too, for the record. Sandin - an offensively talented player - was given a few games on the top-PP, when the PP had been struggling, and Rielly was already playing a ton of minutes. There's absolutely zero reason to think that Rielly was upset about that.

Sandin sh1t the bed. Hence wht Rielly was put back on the #1 PP. Enlighten me Dekes. What do you call the playoffs starting with Sandin starting on the #1 PP over Rielly??

 

[Sypher04]

We had a soft team for years under Dubas.https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-newfound-toughness-2021-22-success/

Ok? This team didn’t fold because of physicality. If it was all about physicality, we would never have gotten up 3-1 in the Montreal series

 

[ToneDog]

i don't think so. IF dubas is fired the incoming GM has a wealth of NHL ready players to trade/ assess. We have four guys that would command an absolute bucket load. If the incoming GM can't figure out how to use his resources then we shouldn't be hiring him. There are plenty of options here.

Not exactly the same situation Dubas walked into.

 

[DarkKnight]

And, this idea the “group let him down” is fine, but the easy counter is…why did you pay them like 2 time defending champs when they hadn’t won anything yet, shown you they could come through? That’s 1000 percent on the GM, he gave them everything, term, money, huge upfront contracts and they hadn’t done a thing and really had no leverage other than threatening to sit out. The unproven RFA’s took him to the cleaners.

 

[Sypher04]

He gave up a ton for a damaged goods player that he couldn’t even resign, no pass there for me.

Foligno was cleared to play by both Columbus and Toronto. His injury was sustained after he was acquired. That’s just shit luck. That all said, the price was definitely high.

Either way, I didn’t say you had to like the specific trade made, just that the rationale for adding to the team made perfect sense.

 

[Sypher04]

And, this idea the “group let him down” is fine, but the easy counter is…why did you pay them like 2 time defending champs when they hadn’t won anything yet, shown you they could come through? That’s 1000 percent on the GM, he gave them everything, term, money, huge upfront contracts and they hadn’t done a thing and really had no leverage other than threatening to sit out. The unproven RFA’s took him to the cleaners.

not saying there isn’t blame to go around. Just that the team he assembled last year should have beaten Montreal and that is first and foremost on the players

 

[DarkKnight]

Foligno was cleared to play by both Columbus and Toronto. His injury was sustained after he was acquired. That’s just shit luck. That all said, the price was definitely high.

Either way, I didn’t say you had to like the specific trade made, just that the rationale for adding to the team made perfect sense.

Then why was there talk in Columbus of his injury the day before he was traded. And, did that guy look effective at all when he came here? Also, so we gave that up for a few games, no thought of coming back?

Foligno was out of the lineup injured 36 hours before the trade, Dreger said he was injured, I don’t buy he was 100 percent at all.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Ok? This team didn’t fold because of physicality. If it was all about physicality, we would never have gotten up 3-1 in the Montreal series

They fold like a tent when it gets punishing and Montreal absolutely ran them and punished them in the offensive zone and defensive zone and they had no push back when that happens. Dubas intentionally went for tough players this year. He admits he needs them after 3 years.
I’m glad he’s figured out that it’s important. Three straight years dead last in physical play says it all. Haven’t won a single playoff series and choked every year when the going gets tough. They lost because they choked. They didn’t win because they couldn’t raise their game when it counted.
I like this team, this team will compete better overall

 

[DarkKnight]

not saying there isn’t blame to go around. Just that the team he assembled last year should have beaten Montreal and that is first and foremost on the players

No one doubts that. I’d add his coach, who didn’t motivate, didn’t make good decisions, screwed up the second line (that was absolutely driving the team) by putting Foligno in there for some inexplicable reason, drew a penalty for a brutal goal review.

 

[4thline]

You mean the same way we brought in Ritchie to replace our #1 LWer?? Sure I get it, you can replace your UFAs with UFAs but I do not believe it makes the team better in most cases. In the Brodie and Bogo cases, it worked because Barrie and Ceci were garbage but Rielly is a top 2 dman which are harder to replace.

No I mean you're saying right now, on September 22nd, that it is inexcusable to use Rielly as own rental. There are three possible outcomes

-re-sign
-trade
-own rental

The argument against the own rental is based on not getting assets, losing him for nothing

If we trade him, unless it is a "hockey" trade (which won't bring in assets) it will weaken the roster and leave us with available cap space for this season. The only way to strengthen the roster and use that cap space is to spend assets. So we might as well just keep Rielly, unless we think we can make the team better in the exchange, or if the player strengthening the roster has term. What's the odds of getting a player with as much impact as Rielly + term for equal to or less than his rental return?

I'm saying that you Tonedog, would find the GM deliberately weakening the team and not using all available cap space inexcusable and a reason to fire him immediately

 

[Dekes For Days]

Enlighten me Dekes. What do you call the playoffs starting with Sandin starting on the #1 PP over Rielly??

Rielly got some #1 PP time in game 1 too, for the record. But it's called trying something new with a PP that's been cold for a while, like everybody here wanted, and distributing ice time better to keep everybody fresh. Fact is, there's zero reason to believe Rielly was upset about this.

 

[ToneDog]

Foligno was cleared to play by both Columbus and Toronto. His injury was sustained after he was acquired. That’s just shit luck. That all said, the price was definitely high.

Either way, I didn’t say you had to like the specific trade made, just that the rationale for adding to the team made perfect sense.

Kypreos claimed Foligno was damaged goods this morning. You can take that with a grain of salt or not.