GDT: Training Camp Discussion

[Wafflewhipper]

No I mean you're saying right now, on September 22nd, that it is inexcusable to use Rielly as own rental. There are three possible outcomes

-re-sign
-trade
-own rental

The argument against the own rental is based on not getting assets, losing him for nothing

If we trade him, unless it is a "hockey" trade (which won't bring in assets) it will weaken the roster and leave us with available cap space for this season. The only way to strengthen the roster and use that cap space is to spend assets. So we might as well just keep Rielly, unless we think we can make the team better in the exchange, or if the player strengthening the roster has term. What's the odds of getting a player with as much impact as Rielly + term for equal to or less than his rental return?

I'm saying that you Tonedog, would find the GM deliberately weakening the team and not using all available cap space inexcusable and a reason to fire him immediately

Sign him or trade him immediately is best. Lots of teams would be interested if dubas put the call out.

 

[4thline]

Sign him or trade him immediately is best. Lots of teams would be interested if dubas put the call out.

And ride out the year with 5m in cap space and Muzzin-Dermott-Sandin as our left side if a suitable top 4 LD with term can't be found?

 

[DarkKnight]

Just a final thought, I find it so Leafy that people actually defend everything this guy has done, when we have zero to show for it, beside humiliation after humiliation. Other teams literally don’t respect us, their fans mock us, we’ve been the most under achieving group and yet Dubas is without fault apparently. What metric can you use to absolve him, how intellectually dishonest can you be to say this situation is defendable, how can you parse out everything, but leave the GENERAL unscathed, day after day after day, the same garbage. Can’t even win a round of the playoffs, never mind contend and he’s above reproach. My lord.

Later.

 

[deprw]

I pity the GM who takes over the train wreck Dubas will be leaving. Potentially, no #1 goalie and no Rielly, 3 draft picks this summer, cap hell, small skilled prospects. The only silver lining is that the Dubasites will disappear.

Oh my god... Whoever comes after Dubas let's say next summer is in great situation overall. No bad contracts to get rid of. Lots of options with big4 and decent prospect pool and young players coming up after Hunters failure with drafting. Those draft picks will be problem, but we have good enough prospect pool at the moment that one summer isn't problem.

One of top10 team defensively with Matthews and Marner signed, with supporting cast lead by Tavares and Nylander. One trade and you get all the flexibility you need for retool and good enough youngsters to support your team for a year if you don't get replacement players from free agency. Goaltending can be a problem.

You can be smart ass about few moves Dubas has made, but your dumbass if you complain about ability to retool this roster or change directions after Dubas. Lou left Dubas with hand grenades without pin (Marleau, Zaitsev) when he left. Dubas will leave his successor table full of options. Whole roster will have some sort of value.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

And ride out the year with 5m in cap space and Muzzin-Dermott-Sandin as our left side if a suitable top 4 LD with term can't be found?

Why would you think we would have cap space? You don’t know whats out thetevand I don’t know whats out there. There is most definitely teams that would want Rielly. The ducks would for sure. Lotsvof wrstern conference teams need a Rielly

 

[ToneDog]

And ride out the year with 5m in cap space and Muzzin-Dermott-Sandin as our left side if a suitable top 4 LD with term can't be found?

It is a bit late now but, who says you "ride out the year with 5m in cap space" ? The Habs lost Kotkiniemi and immediately replaced him with Dvorak.

 

[4thline]

Why would you think we would have cap space? You don’t know whats out thetevand I don’t know whats out there. There is most definitely teams that would want Rielly. The ducks would for sure. Lotsvof wrstern conference teams need a Rielly

Trading Rielly without an extension likely yields picks/prospects in return, with his cap hit going out

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Just a final thought, I find it so Leafy that people actually defend everything this guy has done, when we have zero to show for it, beside humiliation after humiliation. Other teams literally don’t respect us, their fans mock us, we’ve been the most under achieving group and yet Dubas is without fault apparently. What metric can you use to absolve him, how intellectually dishonest can you be to say this situation is defendable, how can you parse out everything, but leave the GENERAL unscathed, day after day after day, the same garbage. Can’t even win a round of the playoffs, never mind contend and he’s above reproach. My lord.

Later.

I both defend him and credit him. The losses in the playoffs are wearing on everyone

 

[ER89]

Not exactly the same situation Dubas walked into.

You're right. But more than enough to figure it out relatively quickly.

 

[4thline]

It is a bit late now but, who says you "ride out the year with 5m in cap space" ? The Habs lost Kotkiniemi and immediately replaced him with Dvorak.

"If a suitable top-4 LD with term can't be found" Because if they don't have term you're effectively trading a rental for a rental (see below)

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Trading Rielly without an extension likely yields picks/prospects in return, with his cap hit going out

The ducks want to move Josh Manson and he would be a nice fit

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I

"If a suitable top-4 LD with term can't be found" Because if they don't have term you're effectively trading a rental for a rental

t does not have to be a left side guy.

 

[Kiwi]

And ride out the year with 5m in cap space and Muzzin-Dermott-Sandin as our left side if a suitable top 4 LD with term can't be found?

Not saying it's ideal but that cap space would be significant at the TDL if you were looking to bolster the team

You could certainly address multiple problems if need be

 

[ToneDog]

Trading Rielly without an extension likely yields picks/prospects in return, with his cap hit going out

Should be a trade similar to the Jones trade where Jones immediately signed an extension with the Hawks.

 

[4thline]

Use Rielly as an own rental, then use his cap space to sign a replacement : "FIRE THE MAN, BAD ASSET MANAGEMENT"

Trade Rielly for a rental replacement: *Golf clap* "Good job, sensible"
Trade Rielly for assets, trade assets for rentals :*Golf clap* "Good job, sensible"

 

[Dekes For Days]

why did you pay them like 2 time defending champs when they hadn’t won anything yet

He didn't. He paid them a reasonable amount based on their pre-signing period, consistent with other post-ELC contracts.

Then why was there talk in Columbus of his injury the day before he was traded.

That (if there even was anything) was a completely different minor "injury" that would be healed in a matter of days; way before he would even be done his quarantine and eligible to play for Toronto. His missed time and impacted play while with us was a result of injuries while with us, and it's ridiculous to blame injuries on a GM.

Also, so we gave that up for a few games

It's called a rental - what the majority of deadline deals are.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don’t like liars stirring up crap about the team. You like snakes do you?

I find you accusation towards Dubas, calling him a liar to be speculative, irresponsible and baseless. Given your propensity for taking a thin thread for sensationalism, it isn't shocking. It's not the behaviour of a fan of the team.

 

[4thline]

Not saying it's ideal but that cap space would be significant at the TDL if you were looking to bolster the team

You could certainly address multiple problems if need be

Has merit in that it would let us stretch cap cap, but using cap space at the deadline (by spending assets) is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that squandering assets through an own rental is a fireable offense

 

[ToDavid]

Will he be allowed with the team? That’s a wow for me, come on.

He said it's due to "medical things". We can really only speculate as to whether that's legitimate or a convenient excuse for putting it off.

The good news is it appears he'll be a full participant in camp. He'll probably have to be masked a lot and tested regularly. He's also been in Toronto for a while practicing with everyone so no travel quarantine to worry about. We've also got a pretty good opening schedule, he'll just have to get the second shot two weeks before October 23rd, the first US game.

 

[Kiwi]

Has merit in that it would let us stretch cap cap, but using cap space at the deadline (by spending assets) is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that squandering assets through an own rental is a fireable offense

I don't think it is a firable offense but I do think if you continually do this with valuable players like Rielly you are hampering your ability to win because you are significantly starving the organization of assets that could be used to bolster the team

This needed to be sorted out around the draft, one way or another

 

[deprw]

I’d add the lack of picks will catch up with us soon.

It's catching us at the moment since Lou and Hunter failed our drafts during their tenure. We had picks but couldn't convert, so it's business as usual if we have two drafts with less picks. Can be even better if our scouting has improved.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I find you accusation towards Dubas, calling him a liar to be speculative, irresponsible and baseless. Given your propensity for taking a thin thread for sensationalism, it isn't shocking. It's not the behaviour of a fan of the team.

Well that explains it then. I was calling McGran the liar. You should read more carefully. Don’t worry though I don’t think much of you either with your aggression and anger
Page #10 post 293 man if you want to reference it

 

[deprw]

He said it's due to "medical things". We can really only speculate as to whether that's legitimate or a convenient excuse for putting it off.

We can only speculate. I don't know about the situation in Sweden or if he'd been there or was to be vaccinated there, but in Finland that age group William is in is getting 2nd shot right about now. The policy has been 8weeks between shots and vaccination started during summer, so it can be issue of not getting the first shot as fast as some other guys did.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

What I heard was Rielly wants NMC on rest of existing contract and all 8 years of new deal .. Leafs do not want it to apply to current contract/season and last few years of da 8 year deal .. I am sure they will work it out .. likely slightly higher AAV to compensate OR more bonus paid up front or some mix of each .. or Leafs accept demands .. this stuff getting into weeds with Pridham and Rielly agent but it is a negotiation

Pretty dumb if true. If Rielly is coming in for a reasonable price then give him his NMC and let him retire a life long Leaf.

 

[deprw]

He gave up a ton for a damaged goods player that he couldn’t even resign, no pass there for me.

Expansion draft prevented us from going after RFAs or players with longer term on this years deadline. So we went after best possible player, who happened to being in the end damaged goods. This years draft was a crap shoot because of the covid that put wrench on player development on whole globe. Those next few age groups lost one or two season worth of meaningful games and lots of practice. It was good year to gamble with draft picks.