Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[Profet]

lolz...

 

[McRanger92]

lolz...

Annual spittin chiclets tweet calling the Rangers frauds for engagement and its working. Biz doesnt have the balls to say it front of Hank I bet.

 

[NYR Viper]

lolz...

He played in (4) total NHL playoff games. He for sure knows what it would take to get there...

 

[will1066]

By the way, the look on his face when he pauses and realizes that he just effed his promo is priceless

 

[mas0764]

I don't even know what you mean by "trying this way" for 30 years. I'm 31 and I've certainly never seen the Rangers pick as high as 1st or 2nd. This roster is also lightyears more talented than any that Hank had. Winning a cup is hard; whining about the team having no chance because of some arbitrary set of rules is a an easier path for some I guess.

There is no formula down to exactness, but it's just false to say there isn't a right and wrong way to approach team building.

We eschew the right way too often. Pretty much entirely, until Gorton issued the letter and enacted a teardown.

 

[savebyrichter94]

By the way, the look on his face when he pauses and realizes that he just effed his promo is priceless

He delivered it with such conviction too

Then you see the look as he tries to work through what he said, he didn’t need any help looking like a jackass

 

[mas0764]

Some fans don’t actually want the rangers to win, they just want to see a perpetual roster of 19-21 year olds who can’t even make the playoffs because it’s “the process”.

Everyone on here wants to win.

It's just that history supports one method over another.

The vast majority of Cups are won by teams who bottom out and acquire overwhelming elite talent.

The vast majority of teams who try to build a veteran core to hang around year after year, and hope to strike gold eventually, end up failing.

 

[LORDE]

Some fans don’t actually want the rangers to win, they just want to see a perpetual roster of 19-21 year olds who can’t even make the playoffs because it’s “the process”.

This is by far the most talented rangers team we’ve ever had. It has at least 5 players on the forward group alone who have the ability to take over a game and win.
We can win with size, we can with skill, we can win with goaltending.
We have at worst a top 10 power play, at best top 3.
We have an incredibly deep blue line.

We have guys coming here for less money, not more.

And for the first time since av we have a coach who actively has a system, and has had success with that system.

People just want to complain

We can win those ways... we just don't.

There are plenty of other teams better than we are at ALL of those things.

We have a roster that is mismatched in both ability & experience & the guys coming here for less do so because it's a country club & we spend more money on folks wiping their asses for them than we do on scouting & development.

 

[mas0764]

We can win those ways... we just don't.

There are plenty of other teams better than we are at ALL of those things.

We have roster that is mismatched in both ability & experience & the guys coming here for less do so because it's a country club & we spend more money on folks wiping their asses for them than we do on scouting & development.

And here we are a couple years into this core, we had a magic run where we snuck by a couple teams playing their backup goaltenders before getting run by Tampa (a real elite team), and then the following year we were dispatched in the first round.

Law of averages. We are a second round team. We are yet again locked into a core that's most likely outcome is a second round exit with consistency.

Just hope and pray I guess. Maybe the good teams will all have injuries some year and we get lucky. But because Buffalo and Ottawa are stuck with bad ownership in forever rebuilds, we have to pretend that would happen to us too, instead of being like Chicago (big city like us), Los Angeles (big city like us), or Pittsburgh.

 

[egelband]

lolz...

Not going to click that. But does the guy have any reasoning? Or is he just jumping on the anti rangers bandwagon? I mean, if he thinks there are eight teams better than the rangers, I guess that’s feasible. What? The leafs, Carolina, Tampa, the Panthers… maybe the Devils… who else? Pit I guess re-tooled a bit…. I don’t see the rangers missing the playoffs.

 

[pld459666]

Everyone on here wants to win.

It's just that history supports one method over another.

The vast majority of Cups are won by teams who bottom out and acquire overwhelming elite talent.

The vast majority of teams who try to build a veteran core to hang around year after year, and hope to strike gold eventually, end up failing.

The problem is when a team wins while NOT having drafted their way there like Vegas did or our very own Rangers 30 years ago

 

[SA16]

I see almost everyone penciling in Bonino as 4C. I kind of don’t see that happening. Maybe I’m missing something tho.

Probably the fact that he's played 12 straight years in the NHL and signed here to play for a coach that played him for 16 minutes/game for 3 years. Also, that he's a good all around player who chips in a lot of offense in a depth role and is the best shot blocking forward in the NHL which coaches value (Not an exaggeration, he is #1 out of 481 forwards in 5v5 block rate the last two years 500+ mins played). But he's got the "old and slow" thing similar to Wheeler so everyone has to write him off.

 

[mas0764]

The problem is when a team wins while NOT having drafted their way there like Vegas did or our very own Rangers 30 years ago

Yeah, that happens.

It's just way more unlikely. The one-offs win far fewer of the total cups, as well as the fact that most franchises that win are not one-offs. You get dynastic type teams more than one-offs. Colorado hasn't repeated yet but their window is still wide open.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Not going to click that. But does the guy have any reasoning? Or is he just jumping on the anti rangers bandwagon? I mean, if he thinks there are eight teams better than the rangers, I guess that’s feasible. What? The leafs, Carolina, Tampa, the Panthers… maybe the Devils… who else? Pit I guess re-tooled a bit…. I don’t see the rangers missing the playoffs.

The only real things he points to are that he "doesnt like our depth" and the Metro is stronger.

Would love to hear which part of our depth he doesnt like. Everywhere outside of RW I think the Rangers are pretty deep.

 

[savebyrichter94]

Not going to click that. But does the guy have any reasoning? Or is he just jumping on the anti rangers bandwagon? I mean, if he thinks there are eight teams better than the rangers, I guess that’s feasible. What? The leafs, Carolina, Tampa, the Panthers… maybe the Devils… who else? Pit I guess re-tooled a bit…. I don’t see the rangers missing the playoffs.

He heard a word once and now he repeats it for clicks/views

If he wants to see a Fugazi hockey player he should just look in the mirror

Kinda funny seeing him dunk on an entire NHL roster after claiming to be their (the players) savior

 

[3rd Guy High]

Not sure why some are penciling in Othmann, was at the game the other night, he handles the puck like a grenade, needs to work on his skating, isn’t terribly strong enough to impose his will like someone like Rempe and is clearly not ready. Maybe he gets 9 games unless he shows something different in the next few games.

Some other observations:
- Wheeler is cooked. Can probably put up points in the right situation but I can see us waiving him in Jan/December in favor of Kane.
- Kakko looks like a monster. Saw a lot in this one game that I saw of him predraft.
- Pitlick brings a lot more to the lineup than someone like Bonino who had lost a step.

 

[McRanger92]

There is no formula down to exactness, but it's just false to say there isn't a right and wrong way to approach team building.

We eschew the right way too often. Pretty much entirely, until Gorton issued the letter and enacted a teardown.

Idk how you can look back on Gorton's tenure with the benefit of hindsight and think what he was doing was the right path. This is a guy who gave Tony DeAngelo 10 mil over 2 years and bought him out after 5 games. Only 1 such instance of many embarrassments overseen by him.

Drury's moves have been much better even with the bad Buchnevich trade off the jump

 

[NYR Viper]

Nick Bonino had 40 takeaways in an average of 15:55 per game over 62 games.

Zibanejad had 57 takeaways in an average of 19:58 per game over 82 games.

I don't think people understand how impressive this stat is. If Bonino was healthy for 82 games at the same playing time he was receiving he would have had ~53 takeaways. That's in ~4 minutes less per game or 328 less minutes playing time than Zibanejad.

And this has been happening for the entirety of Bonino's career. He is a turnover machine, in a positive sense of the word. His positioning and stickwork are consistently very good

 

[duhmetreE]

And here we are a couple years into this core, we had a magic run where we snuck by a couple teams playing their backup goaltenders before getting run by Tampa (a real elite team), and then the following year we were dispatched in the first round.

Law of averages. We are a second round team. We are yet again locked into a core that's most likely outcome is a second round exit with consistency.

Just hope and pray I guess. Maybe the good teams will all have injuries some year and we get lucky. But because Buffalo and Ottawa are stuck with bad ownership in forever rebuilds, we have to pretend that would happen to us too, instead of being like Chicago (big city like us), Los Angeles (big city like us), or Pittsburgh.

We haven't seen what this team is truly capable of with competent coaching. We got to the ECF with a PP and Igor. When the PP stopped producing, we lost. What happens if we learn how to play as a team at 5v5? Instead of only relying on the PP?

The next 2 years will be telling.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

And here we are a couple years into this core, we had a magic run where we snuck by a couple teams playing their backup goaltenders before getting run by Tampa (a real elite team), and then the following year we were dispatched in the first round.

Law of averages. We are a second round team. We are yet again locked into a core that's most likely outcome is a second round exit with consistency.

Just hope and pray I guess. Maybe the good teams will all have injuries some year and we get lucky. But because Buffalo and Ottawa are stuck with bad ownership in forever rebuilds, we have to pretend that would happen to us too, instead of being like Chicago (big city like us), Los Angeles (big city like us), or Pittsburgh.

You continuing to undersell the 2022 run is hilarious.

It wasn't just "back up goaltending" - They had to literally battle every single bad bounce and ref bias possible in the first round (not to mention, they probably wrap that series earlier if their starter plays.) They won 5 straight elimination games, thats a feat no matter who the other team is playing in net. You want to make the case that they lose to Carolina if they had better goaltending? Eh ok maybe I'll buy it but its not like they were lighting it up that entire series. They lost because they couldn't score and the Rangers started to rip apart their league best PK.

Almost their entire top 9 produced at or above expectations. 2 guys were on pace to shatter every single franchise playoff record for their respective positions before they eventually ran out of gas. If #10 was even close to playing up to his capabilities (which was a signing you wanted btw) they make the finals at the very least and probably win the whole thing.

 

[duhmetreE]

lolz...

He knows what he's doing....

 

[SA16]

Nick Bonino had 40 takeaways in an average of 15:55 per game over 62 games.

Zibanejad had 57 takeaways in an average of 19:58 per game over 82 games.

I don't think people understand how impressive this stat is. If Bonino was healthy for 82 games at the same playing time he was receiving he would have had ~53 takeaways. That's in ~4 minutes less per game or 328 less minutes playing time than Zibanejad.

And this has been happening for the entirety of Bonino's career. He is a turnover machine, in a positive sense of the word. His positioning and stickwork are consistently very good

That is just because of special teams. He is number 62 in 5v5 takeaways/60 the last two seasons (1000+ mins). Number 61 is Mika. He is number 54 at 4v5 (100+ mins). Mika is number 22. The difference you are calculating is because of PP time where takeaways are extremely uncommon. Mika gets much more PP time so he has a lot more of time where he won't get a takeaway.

 

[mas0764]

Idk how you can look back on Gorton's tenure with the benefit of hindsight and think what he was doing was the right path.

He made mistakes but the philosophy was right.

We haven't seen what this team is truly capable of with competent coaching. We got to the ECF with a PP and Igor. When the PP stopped producing, we lost. What happens if we learn how to play as a team at 5v5? Instead of only relying on the PP?

The next 2 years will be telling.

I hope so; but then hopefully with "competent coaching," Laf and Kakko take off and then we jump into that elite tier.

 

[duhmetreE]

He made mistakes but the philosophy was right.



I hope so; but then hopefully with "competent coaching," Laf and Kakko take off and then we jump into that elite tier.

His philosophy is exactly what you’re complaining about.

 

[barriers]

Show me what you got Willy!