Training Camp and Preseason thread 2023

[mas0764]

You continuing to undersell the 2022 run is hilarious.

It wasn't just "back up goaltending" - They had to literally battle every single bad bounce and ref bias possible in the first round (not to mention, they probably wrap that series earlier if their starter plays.) They won 5 straight elimination games, thats a feat no matter who the other team is playing in net. You want to make the case that they lose to Carolina if they had better goaltending? Eh ok maybe I'll buy it but its not like they were lighting it up that entire series. They lost because they couldn't score and the Rangers started to rip apart their league best PK.

Almost their entire top 9 produced at or above expectations. 2 guys were on pace to shatter every single franchise playoff record for their respective positions before they eventually ran out of gas. If #10 was even close to playing up to his capabilities (which was a signing you wanted btw) they make the finals at the very least and probably win the whole thing.

I'm not saying that run was a "fluke," but it's a run that came down to a couple flips of a coin that could have gone either way and in another year (like last year) it does go the other way - and we go out in the first round. We did have luck facing backup goalies whether anyone wants to admit that or not.

The point is that it was not a team that can impose it's will on other playoff teams. When you need those strokes of luck, you probably aren't a real contender and the coin flip will eventually go against you.

Which is exactly what happened to us and is always what happens to us.

Every team is subject to luck but the Lightning don't win 8 playoff rounds all with luck - they are good enough to withstand the bad bounces - like when we went up 2-0 against them until they found their legs.

 

[duhmetreE]

He made mistakes but the philosophy was right.



I hope so; but then hopefully with "competent coaching," Laf and Kakko take off and then we jump into that elite tier.

We’re in the elite tier when our 5v5 game catches up with Shesty and our special teams. It’s bigger than just Laffy and Kakko. That rising tide will lift all ships though.

Laffy and Kakko rely heavily on even strength production. If your entire teamplay was dog shite at even strength, that becomes a problem for their production.

 

[mas0764]

His philosophy is exactly what you’re complaining about.

The tearing it down and doing a proper rebuild was the right idea, is what I'm saying.

I'm not stumping for Gorton specifically and this doesn't need to be an argument about him. If we want to conclude that Gorton was just as responsible for an aborted rebuild then that's not a hill I'm dying on.

The rebuild was not seen through no matter whose decision it was, but it always seemed like it was Gorton's idea to do the rebuild in the first place which is why I credit him.

 

[mas0764]

We’re in the elite tier when our 5v5 game catches up with Shesty and our special teams. It’s bigger than just Laffy and Kakko. That rising tide will lift all ships though.

Laffy and Kakko rely heavily on even strength production. If your entire teamplay was dog shite at even strength, that becomes a problem for their production.

Chicken or the egg. If 5v5 raises all boats then it will raise Kakko and Lafreniere, who have top line talent, into top line producers.

My point is and always has been that we don't have enough high end talent. Perhaps that can be better summarized to "we don't have enough players playing like high end talent, because coaching isn't letting them thrive especially at 5v5." It's always been that by time Kakko and Laf finally turn into stars, Mika and Kreider and Panarin will be too old.

If Laviolette fixes that immediately, then maybe there is hope, but I've watched too much underachieving to count on it.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I’m convinced Kane is going to come back strong. Like him or not, he is a junkyard dog.


The chair…Is against the wall.

Vive la Résistance!

 

[McRanger92]

He made mistakes but the philosophy was right.



I hope so; but then hopefully with "competent coaching," Laf and Kakko take off and then we jump into that elite tier.

You do realize Gorton signed Panarin and traded for Trouba right? Everything isnt Drury's fault.

 

[mas0764]

You do realize Gorton signed Panarin and traded for Trouba right? Everything isnt Drury's fault.

Admitted many times over. To you directly, even, I think.

I've also made the case that those acquisitions I don't think had to be inductive of an aborted rebuild, but rather they came to be excuses for it later.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm really intrigued by the potential additions of the young players like Cuylle and Othmann as well as having an actual gameplan for retrieving pucks @ 5v5. I think that will help IMMENSLY

 

[McRanger92]

Admitted many times over. To you directly, even, I think.

I've also made the case that those acquisitions I don't think had to be inductive of an aborted rebuild, but rather they came to be excuses for it later.

Yeah I mean you think they aborted the rebuild because the traded a couple first rounders in the late 20s.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

The tearing it down and doing a proper rebuild was the right idea, is what I'm saying.

I'm not stumping for Gorton specifically and this doesn't need to be an argument about him. If we want to conclude that Gorton was just as responsible for an aborted rebuild then that's not a hill I'm dying on.

The rebuild was not seen through no matter whose decision it was, but it always seemed like it was Gorton's idea to do the rebuild in the first place which is why I credit him.

..and then Davidson was made his boss and:
February 8th, 2018 letter

May 18th 2019 J.D. is hired as President.

June 17th, 2019 Jacob Trouba is traded to the NY Rangers for Neal Pionk and the 20th overall 2019 pick.

July 1st, 2019 Artemi Panerin signs with the NY Rangers.

 

[McRanger92]

Laviolette and the Rangers clearly have a vision for what they want Cuylle to be at the NHL level. Middle 6er at even strength and a netfront guy on the PP. Wouldnt be shocked to see him get PK time. Wilson's role in Washington. I remember when Cuylle was drafted that was his upside, so it's pretty exciting that he's about to crack the NHL with a shot at reaching that ceiling. He and Othmann are a couple junkyard dogs that can provide depth now and in future years.

 

[NYR Viper]

Laviolette and the Rangers clearly have a vision for what they want Cuylle to be at the NHL level. Middle 6er at even strength and a netfront guy on the PP. Wouldnt be shocked to see him get PK time. Wilson's role in Washington. I remember when Cuylle was drafted that was his upside, so it's pretty exciting that he's about to crack the NHL with a shot at reaching that ceiling. He and Othmann are a couple junkyard dogs that can provide depth now and in future years.

With guys like Berard, Sykora, Rempe and others on that list as well, the team is taking shape to be much more difficult to play against

 

[McRanger92]

With guys like Berard, Sykora, Rempe and others on that list as well, the team is taking shape to be much more difficult to play against

Its funny we have people saying the rebuild failed when guys the Rangers have drafted outside the first round during the lean years haven't even cracked the NHL yet. Talk about the need for instant gratification.

 

[TGWL]

I don’t know we had a lot of guys in place already. The bigger issue is the rangers were never bad enough to truely deserved 1st and 2nd overall pics. When you have a Zibanejad Kreider Panarin and even buchnevich on the roster that blocks guys from truely being THE guys coming into the organization. Kakko and laf have never been THE guys here because those vets have always been there. Bedard stuztle Hughes etc walked into orgs where there are literally nobodies on the team ahead of them really. I think both will find their way. Kakko this year I think takes a big step. Lafreniere maybe it’s this year maybe it’s next year he’s still younger than kakko. But not getting those big mins and powerplay time in games that don’t matter really will always be what has held these guys back.

If we didn't win the lottery there, the organization might have made some other moves. You might be looking at a completely different team and we might have actually been a bottom team for this past draft.

 

[cwede]

maybe missing someone, but if today's reported game roster holds (Zib, Karl debut)
these are the guys, still in Camp, who will have not had a preseason game yet
(BT, BS played both? games vs Phill IIRC)

Panarin, Elson, Trivigno
Scanlin, Brouillard, Hillman[AHL contract

 

[duhmetreE]

Chicken or the egg. If 5v5 raises all boats then it will raise Kakko and Lafreniere, who have top line talent, into top line producers.

My point is and always has been that we don't have enough high end talent. Perhaps that can be better summarized to "we don't have enough players playing like high end talent, because coaching isn't letting them thrive especially at 5v5." It's always been that by time Kakko and Laf finally turn into stars, Mika and Kreider and Panarin will be too old.

If Laviolette fixes that immediately, then maybe there is hope, but I've watched too much underachieving to count on it.

That’s been the distinction imo.

There were a few that overcame our 1970s approach but that’s massive hill to climb, especially from young talent.

I truly believe you will see growth from all of our young players this season ( barring injury of course )

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

The only real things he points to are that he "doesnt like our depth" and the Metro is stronger.

Would love to hear which part of our depth he doesnt like. Everywhere outside of RW I think the Rangers are pretty deep.

I bet you he doesn't even have any idea what the Rangers' depth looks like, he probably can't name more than 10 players on the roster.

Just his annual attempt at getting some juiced engagement. Two years ago in the playoffs was some of the most sustained engagement he'd ever gotten when he was incessantly doubling down on the Rangers being frauds as they went to the ECF.

 

[TGWL]

Put Rempe in front of the net on the PP. He should be able to put up a lot of points from that spot.

This isn't beer league.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Idk how you can look back on Gorton's tenure with the benefit of hindsight and think what he was doing was the right path. This is a guy who gave Tony DeAngelo 10 mil over 2 years and bought him out after 5 games. Only 1 such instance of many embarrassments overseen by him.

Drury's moves have been much better even with the bad Buchnevich trade off the jump

Drury gets a seriously bad rap considering all the good he's done as the GM. People just can't move past the Buchnevich trade which was obviously bad.
Although the logic behind moving him was sound on paper and actually what many on here would want to happen: a veteran player due for a raise with 3 young, highly drafted wingers on ELCs who need more minutes and more opportunity waiting in the wings to fill his spot (Kakko, Laf, Kravtsov).

It didn't work out but it is what it is, it shouldn't tarnish everything Drury has done. The organization right now has far more NHL level depth than it ever did under Gorton. With Gorton we were always 1 injury away from implosion it felt like, now we have like 16 NHL quality forwards and 9 NHL quality defensemen. We have depth down the middle, a seriously deep forward group with high end talent and a solid top 4 on D. This is a good roster.

 

[LORDE]

Its funny we have people saying the rebuild failed when guys the Rangers have drafted outside the first round during the lean years haven't even cracked the NHL yet. Talk about the need for instant gratification.

This is disingenuous at best.

What are the "lean" years?

The letter was 2018... the guys we drafted in the 1st rd from that point on ARE in the NHL & the rest we all knew were "projects" or needed time.

I can't speak for everyone but "instant" for me was KK & Laf

They were anything but instant & as far as Laf goes... still being "patient" I guess because I have no other choice.

Winning the lottery twice kinda boned us. We needed more ammo to go along WITH them to get some centers.

It's all become a failed rebuild BECAUSE it wasn't a rebuild in the 1st place once we signed Bread to a max / max

 

[haohmaru]

The Rangers had 8 first round picks in 4 years. That’s the rebuild. Better picks would’ve had better rebuild results.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I have no idea how this team would have shaken out if Dolan didn’t throw a temper tantrum and fire Gorton. But comparing what Gorton did at the stages this team was at in it’s process vs what Drury has been doing in a completely different stage is disingenuous

People also seem to forget that Drury was Gorton’s right hand and had major influence and probably even driving some of the decisions getting made that people shit on Gorton for

Chris Drury is the definition of a below average to average NHL GM.

Anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves lol

 

[RangerBoy]

Othmann goes to the AHL where he plays major minutes to start the season. The guy didn't look out of place during preseason last season. He didn't look out of place on Tuesday night. Othmann won't pull a Kravtsov(2x) and basically give up after being sent to the AHL. It's a long season.

I really like Cuylle. He looked good in his limited games last season with the Rangers. The Rangers have four preseason games remaining. Having Cuylle in the top 9 on a line with Trocheck and Wheeler would be good for Cuylle. Both Trocheck and Wheeler are veteran NHL players. Cuylle can provide size and strength. Wheeler is a big body. Trocheck isn't a soft player. Laviolette had Cuylle skate on a line with Zibanejad and Lafreniere a couple of days ago in practice.

Big boy hockey is playoff hockey.

 

[NickyFotiu]

This just isn't true.

We have been trying this way for 30 years now and it's not working for us. You don't just roll the dice and what will be will be as long as you are a playoff team.

It's just a shame this mediocrity is acceptable to so many.

If you do not like us trying to win why don't you go root for the NHL team losing the most next season? Then if we are ever terrible you can come back here and enjoy our own losing as well.

 

[mas0764]

If you do not like us trying to win why don't you go root for the NHL team losing the most next season?

Such a shitty argument that people who advocate a different (better, more proven) way to win "don't want to win."