Training Camp 2023

[kudymen]

The irony of "unbelievable vehemence of defending"

 

[deadhead]

I can't believe people are defending Hextall with all we know.
He wasn't awful, he was just painfully mediocre and kept the team in limbo, neither good enough to compete nor bad enough to draft in the top ten.

The team he left behind in 2018 was just as bad as the team he inherited in 2014.
G (31), Couts (26), Voracek (29), Simmons (30), JVR (29), Raffl (30), Gudas (28)
TK (21), Ghost (25), Sanheim (22), Provorov (22), Lindblom (22), Laughton (24), Patrick (20), NAK (22), Hart (20)
Some bad luck with Lindblom and Patrick. But not enough of a young core to stay competitive.

And yes, Holmgren was responsible for the moves in the summer of 2019, he made it clear he wanted to get back to the playoffs. There were limited options once they knew Patrick was damaged goods. Hayes or Duchene (headed to Nashville on an overpay) to fill the center hole.

2021-23 was on Fletcher (with a little prompting from Barber). Drawing to inside straights trying to keep his job and wondering why he lost every deal.

 

[Tripod]

Lol at this bull shit

But i am tagging out.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

After all these years and countless times of explaining our stances on these matters (in detail) they still continue to be misrepresented intentionally.

The push back here is because we're not putting up with the gaslighting that is being attempted. We were there. We saw the manifestos. We're not going to have reality altered because of some inability to ever admit that someone was wrong. It's going to be called out.

 

[deadhead]

After all these years and countless times of explaining our stances on these matters (in detail) they still continue to be misrepresented intentionally.

The push back here is because we're not putting up with the gaslighting that is being attempted. We were there. We saw the manifestos. We're not going to have reality altered because of some inability to ever admit that someone was wrong. It's going to be called out.

So, you think Hextall did a good job as GM?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Mighty convenient to blame just the GM, because basically all the other pigs of the Flyers family - in various departments remain employed.

Almost as if things are run in collaboration, or triumvirate if you will.

 

[deadhead]

Mighty convenient to blame just the GM, because basically all the other pigs of the Flyers family - in various departments remain employed.

Almost as if things are run in collaboration, or triumvirate if you will.

Actually, they've made a number of changes, and a bunch of "good ole boys" were retired.

Brown was demoted as head of pro scouting, probably kept around to retirement as a reward to a long-term employee, but obviously won't have much influence anymore.

Armstrong, head of player development, is Briere's man from Maine.

Doesn't mean they have the right people in place, does show Briere recognized they had a problem.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

So, you think Hextall did a good job as GM?

No and i've said that countless times. He did an adequate job in a lot of aspects but failed in too many to survive.

Again, the only reason that most people on here step to the plate for Hextall is because we've had years and years of nonsense spewed about Chuck Fletcher's greatness.

 

[Curufinwe]

The team he left behind in 2018 was just as bad as the team he inherited in 2014.

The team Hextall left behind in November 2018 was the 6th best team in the NHL the very next season with just the addition of Braun, Hayes, Niskanen and Pitlick. The top four point scorers on the 19-20 Flyers and the starting goalie were all inherited by Chuck Fletcher in the one season out of five as Flyers GM where he made the playoffs.

When you do anticipate that the team Fletcher left behind in March 2023 is going to be a top 10 team or even make the playoffs?

 

[Curufinwe]

How much of Ron Hextall's work will Chuck Fletcher undo?

VOORHEES, N.J. — If he felt so inclined, Chuck Fletcher could walk in and rip out the carpet, repaint the walls and tear down the drapes. The Flyers’ newest general manager has been given full autonomy by upper management to make the alterations that are more aligned with the organization’s...

www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com

“The cupboard is full. There are a tremendous amount of prospects,” Fletcher said Wednesday at his introductory press conference. “This year, we have nine draft picks — we have an extra third and an extra seventh. We have cap space and we have good players. There’s everything here to be successful and that’s our goal and that’s what we’re going to do. It’s set up for success.”

 

[freakydallas13]

So, you think Hextall did a good job as GM?

Is that what he said?

 

[trostol]

its been so long..i can't remember the last good GM we've had

 

[deadhead]

The team Hextall left behind in November 2018 was the 6th best team in the NHL the very next season with just the addition of Braun, Hayes, Niskanen and Pitlick. The top four point scorers on the 19-20 Flyers and the starting goalie were all inherited by Chuck Fletcher in the one season out of five as Flyers GM where he made the playoffs.

When you do anticipate that the team Fletcher left behind in March 2023 is going to be a top 10 team or even make the playoffs?

Holmgren wanted Fletcher to win now, he was tired of "rebuilding," and said so.
Fletcher got a "dead cat" bounce with AV and some puck luck and adding some veterans.
The next season, with the same team (all of Hextall players) they came back to earth.
The 2019-20 team was about the same quality as the 2017-18 team.
After that season, age and injuries started the death spiral, CF merely hastened the inevitable.

There's a "quick and dirty" way to compare teams: GF - GA with GA normalized to league save %.
The idea is to factor out goalie play. Good teams tend to have large margins of GF over GA.

2014-15: 212 - 221
2015-16; 211 - 228 (carried by Mason)
2016-17: 212 - 218
2017-18: 249 - 226
2018-19: 241 - 254
2019-20: 227 - 187 [270 - 222 prorated]
2020-21: 160 - 158 [234 - 231 prorated] (really bad goalie play)
2021-22: 210 - 274
2022-23: 220 - 260

You can also go with xGF - xGA in all situations.
2014-15: 211 - 223
2015-16: 225 - 225
2016-17: 228 - 206
2017-18: 231 - 219
2018-19: 232 - 233
2019-20: 189 - 180 [225 - 214]
2020-21: 145 - 142 [212 - 208]
2021-22: 224 - 266
2022-23: 224 - 263

 

[kudymen]

Is that what he said?

Hahaha brought to you by a guy who for years repeated "I'm simply not answering people who approach me with gotcha questions"

 

[flyersnorth]

its been so long..i can't remember the last good GM we've had

I don't know the answer either, but Holmgren was the last fun one we had. Scorched earth and all that, but damn entertaining.

 

[deadhead]

I don't know the answer either, but Holmgren was the last fun one we had. Scorched earth and all that, but damn entertaining.

Too bad they started making the salary cap work.

 

[flyersnorth]

Too bad they started making the salary cap work.

Yeah, it wasn't sustainable, and Homer benefited from deep pockets and no cap for a while.

But it was legitimately the last time I enjoyed watching the Flyers.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

its been so long..i can't remember the last good GM we've had

bob clarke

 

[Tripod]

No and i've said that countless times. He did an adequate job in a lot of aspects but failed in too many to survive.

Again, the only reason that most people on here step to the plate for Hextall is because we've had years and years of nonsense spewed about Chuck Fletcher's greatness.

That's the part that gets ignored.

I just defended Hextall to refute the lie that he that he did nothing for 2 years. He added a top scorer, 7 picks, cleared 5 big cap hits, etc... How can anyone say that's nothing??

Yet I hate he didn't fire Hak, Gordon, other development guys, ignored not adding a legit goalie to bridge to Hart, hell not bringing Hart up, didn't add a C, etc...

It's funny that the guy ragging on Hextall for everything said we were 2 years away from being a contender for years, and now defends Chuck "1 mistake" Fletcher.

Can't make this shit up.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Nice “rebuild”.

 

[deadhead]

.

That's the part that gets ignored.

I just defended Hextall to refute the lie that he that he did nothing for 2 years. He added a top scorer, 7 picks, cleared 5 big cap hits, etc... How can anyone say that's nothing??

Yet I hate he didn't fire Hak, Gordon, other development guys, ignored not adding a legit goalie to bridge to Hart, hell not bringing Hart up, didn't add a C, etc...

It's funny that the guy ragging on Hextall for everything said we were 2 years away from being a contender for years, and now defends Chuck "1 mistake" Fletcher.

Can't make this shit up.

Where did I defend Fletcher? He did what he was told to do, got them into the playoffs, then melted down. I don't think he did a good job, but he wasn't the core problem.

He wasn't left this great team that he destroyed, it was basically the same team over five seasons, from 2016-17 to 2020-21. The numbers tell the story. When they got good goalie play and some breaks they made the playoffs, when they didn't they fell short - i.e. a 90-95 point team that fluctuated around that level of play. Then it imploded in 2021-22. CF may have accelerated the process, but age and injuries made a collapse inevitable.

It wasn't that Hextall 'did nothing,' it's that he never committed to rebuilding, basically an "aggressive reload" that got them an extended period of mediocrity. Not good enough to get past the first round, not bad enough to pick in the top 10.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

So, you think Hextall did a good job as GM?

No we all said he did a bad job WHY YOU ARE DEFENDING CHUCKLES AT EVERY TURN! you hated hextall we get it, but holy f***, does chuckles have nude photos/videos of you and your wife doing the no no dance? You are going above and beyond to not admit he was just as bad if not worse! (Definitely worse)

We say we want Clarke and company gone (the same ones who YOU SAY made your lord and savior do these brain dead moves that you defend) and you immediately come to their aid, you've said they aren't around the team their golfing, which is clearly bullshit when you see them constantly in the box office with Jones.

We say chuckles sucked, you go straight into defense mode and bring up hextall, as if that's even remotely the same thing (it's not)

They say they're rebuilding, we show you that it's not a rebuild until they do more, you instantly go into a rant about tanking when that's not what we are talking about.

They tell us that they had a first offered for Laughton (which a rebuilding team should take 100 times out of 100) YOU DEFEND THEM.

YOU SAY THE KIDS WILL PLAY, they don't play and then YOU MAKE EXCUSES for why management doesn't play them, after we tell you year after God damn year, that's not the flyers way, they won't play

You get mad at beef and other mods and call them stalkers because they call you out on your bullshit and then you constantly have to be condescending towards everyone and talk about things as if you're all knowing and just the smartest guy in every room about every topic and subject.

We get it, you're against anything that considered main stream thoughts, we get it, but you can admit your wrong, I've said lots of things, alot are right, and hell alot have been wrong, I don't double down and talk down to people because I'm wrong, I listen, learn, and move on, why can't you do this?

 

[deadhead]

No we all said he did a bad job WHY YOU ARE DEFENDING CHUCKLES AT EVERY TURN! you hated hextall we get it, but holy f***, does chuckles have nude photos/videos of you and your wife doing the no no dance? You are going above and beyond to not admit he was just as bad if not worse! (Definitely worse)

We say we want Clarke and company gone (the same ones who YOU SAY made your lord and savior do these brain dead moves that you defend) and you immediately come to their aid, you've said they aren't around the team their golfing, which is clearly bullshit when you see them constantly in the box office with Jones.

It's because EVERYTHING is exaggerated by y'all.

Holmgren in the press box was the first siting of an advisor in TC, but the takeaway is he's actively involved instead of shooting the breeze with an old friend - but somehow he just got involved after being MIA from the moment he hired CF (even though he was President for the first year)?

The kids will play, they started Frost, Tippett, Cates and York last year, Foerster or Brink will start the season, Zamula will be paired with Sanheim, Ersson is the backup goalie and at some point Andrae and the loser of Foerster/Brink will break into the lineup. The other prospects, none are good enough to be handed a job, let's see them dominate at the AHL level.

There will be injuries and trades, happens every season. A prospect or two will take advantage of an opportunity, a few will show their AHL performance was just a mirage.

I'll get concerned if before the next draft there hasn't been some major moves by Briere - I don't want him to do a "Hextall." But I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over the first week of the season.

 

[Tripod]

"WHERE DID I DEFEND CHUCK?"

Says the guy who said Chuck made 1 mistake and even that one is debatable because of how the defense whisperer Shaw fixed him on a random date in December.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It's because EVERYTHING is exaggerated by y'all.

Holmgren in the press box was the first siting of an advisor in TC, but the takeaway is he's actively involved instead of shooting the breeze with an old friend - but somehow he just got involved after being MIA from the moment he hired CF (even though he was President for the first year)?

The kids will play, they started Frost, Tippett, Cates and York last year, Foerster or Brink will start the season, Zamula will be paired with Sanheim, Ersson is the backup goalie and at some point Andrae and the loser of Foerster/Brink will break into the lineup. The other prospects, none are good enough to be handed a job, let's see them dominate at the AHL level.

There will be injuries and trades, happens every season. A prospect or two will take advantage of an opportunity, a few will show their AHL performance was just a mirage.

I'll get concerned if before the next draft there hasn't been some major moves by Briere - I don't want him to do a "Hextall." But I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over the first week of the season.

Good to see you still ignore what we've all been saying.

One more time, the fact that we haven't seen or heard from them means NOTHING. We didn't see or hear from them much at all in the last few years and yet we know they were still involved.

Now the goal posts have been moved to “he’s only been seen once!”

Enjoy once again proclaiming that these things are going to happen only to backtrack when they don't.