Training Camp 2023

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Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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sanheim has been held back? interesting take.

You would think then teams be knocking at the door to acquire him since the flyers held him back.


they said they are almost done rebuilding? would love to see that quote.

They gave a 3 year timeline and said they're in Year 2. You have already seen these quotes.

Sanheim has been held back. Forever with shit partners, zero PP usage. This team has no idea what to do with a dman like him. Never have. Never will until they fire everyone.
 

FromOyVey2Matvei

Registered User
Jul 15, 2023
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anything to back this up? or just your speculation?
Keith Jones said it once when he was put on the spot on WIP like 2 days after taking the job. Said they were within 3 years and we wouldn't be bad for an extended period.

Everyone knows that things said on Sports Talk Radio are basically the word of god and will never be deviated from. It's totally not just lip service to appease fans.
 

Beef Invictus

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Keith Jones said it once when he was put on the spot on WIP like 2 days after taking the job. Said they were within 3 years and we wouldn't be bad for an extended period.

Everyone knows that things said on Sports Talk Radio are basically the word of god and will never be deviated from. It's totally not just lip service to appease fans.

Keith Jones wasn't some neophyte outsider with no clue what was going on.
 

blackjackmulligan

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Jun 17, 2022
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They gave a 3 year timeline and said they're in Year 2. You have already seen these quotes.

Sanheim has been held back. Forever with shit partners, zero PP usage. This team has no idea what to do with a dman like him. Never have. Never will until they fire everyone.
you said they are almost done. They have said no such thing. Do you ever quote any of the quotes when they say they don't have a timeline or what not?

Sanheim has not been held back. Total nonsense. then again myers was ruined.
 

Beef Invictus

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you said they are almost done. They have said no such thing. Do you ever quote any of the quotes when they say they don't have a timeline or what not?

Sanheim has not been held back. Total nonsense. then again myers was ruined.

Here's the main thing: every time I give you quotes you ignore them. Explain why I should go to the effort?

They've been posted here before in threads you've participated in. You always do this act where you play ignorant.

Refusing to use a good PP player, ever, until that skillsets atrophied is absolutely holding that player back. But for some reason you don't think anything is wrong with development. And no, don't give me that BS that you do, because you have a fit every time anyone gives any examples of bad development and refuse to believe it was bad. You don't get to claim you think it's bad while defending it nonstop.
 

trostol

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Jan 30, 2012
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My assumption is they think they are done because they added Michkov and can compete vastly sooner
 

blackjackmulligan

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Jun 17, 2022
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Here's the main thing: every time I give you quotes you ignore them. Explain why I should go to the effort?

They've been posted here before in threads you've participated in. You always do this act where you play ignorant.
not ignoring anything.

They flyers never said they were almost done. That is a figment of your imagination.
 

FromOyVey2Matvei

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Jul 15, 2023
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Danny Briere was in charge as Tortorella sat young players. Zamula, is an example. Briere was in charge during a dead season where they didn't use that pointless time to get NHL experience for young players. This was mere months ago.

Briere was in charge while nothing changed.

Frost's TOI increased chiefly because injuries and players leaving left them no choice. Briere likes Frost, but even that wasn't enough.
Even that wasn't enough? He had 7G, 9A in 17 games since Briere became the GM... I'd be OK with that going forward lol.

They sat Zamula? Not really... they called him up for a quick look with the big club then returned him to the AHL so he could play big minutes in the playoffs. Did the exact same thing with Foerster, just called him up a little sooner but returned him at the exact same time for the playoff push.
 

blackjackmulligan

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Jun 17, 2022
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Keith Jones said it once when he was put on the spot on WIP like 2 days after taking the job. Said they were within 3 years and we wouldn't be bad for an extended period.

Everyone knows that things said on Sports Talk Radio are basically the word of god and will never be deviated from. It's totally not just lip service to appease fans.
didn't jones the other day say he doesn't know how long it will take or something to that effect? hopes it is sooner than later.

But focus on the one made months ago.
 

Beef Invictus

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Even that wasn't enough? He had 7G, 9A in 17 games since Briere became the GM... I'd be OK with that going forward lol.

They sat Zamula? Not really... they called him up for a quick look with the big club then returned him to the AHL so he could play big minutes in the playoffs. Did the exact same thing with Foerster, just called him up a little sooner but returned him at the exact same time for the playoff push.

He didn't get a look. He sat.

Games in the NHL would have been more valuable than 3 playoff games under Lappy.
 

blackjackmulligan

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Jun 17, 2022
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They said it. Briere has also echoed the short timeline. So has Tortorella.

Their actions on non trades only make sense if they believe the end is near.
no they didnt say it. short time lien and almost done are very different.

That is your take on why they didnt trade them. Not the fact you portray it to be.
 

FromOyVey2Matvei

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Jul 15, 2023
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Keith Jones wasn't some neophyte outsider with no clue what was going on.
Exactly... he's not some neophyte outsider... he understands that a large portion of our most passionate fans are neanderthals that absolutely loved when Snider would break the bank for the free agent du jour and never rebuild.

There is absolutely zero upside in going on sports talk radio, whose listenership skews overwhelmingly towards those boomer neanderthal fans and telling them "hey, we're probably gonna suck for 3-5 years. Strap in."

He got put on the spot and threw out a palatable timeline. Because one of his chief jobs in his new role is being a salesman. He's at nearly every team event for fans/season ticketholders for a reason.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

THE TORTURE NEVER STOPS
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Uh yeah actually there's loads of context required when comparing players across teams or even across seasons on the same team.

There are players who are too good to fail. Players with enough talent to make things work. We have some of those players; theyve been held back, too. Sanheim is the poster child for that. This ain't about those guys that would succeed anywhere in any situation, though. It's all about the other guys. The lesser, depth guys who can be made or broken by how they're brought up. Guys with short windows where they have utility, guys who aren't going to outright win 1 on 1 most of the time. Having a system where you take what those players are good at and build them into it is how you get them to succeed. The Flyers do the opposite. Hence why they almost universally fail to develop depth in-house, which is fatal with a salary cap.
No, if we are talking about 50 games and 12 points, there is no context needed. I don't care if the Flyers forced him to play a Mylec street hockey stick and didn't let him wear skates. If he scored 12 points doing that and then scored 12 points with Washington, that's the player he is. That isn't development or usage, that is a bad hockey player. He performed better on a SC winning team. He didn't on any other team he played for and was waived twice during that time period (we'll see where it goes this year). This isn't rocket science.

Ahh the classic, "If it doesn't fit my narrative, then the only explanation is that it happened by accident!" We have depth players. You don't like them, but we have them and have developed them and are developing them. Cates is a good example though everyone hates him because he got more money than Morgan Frost. Lindblom was looking good before cancer. Attard and Andrae appear to be on that track. Shit even Allison who you are complaining about looks like he is also trending towards being a good depth player. I'm sure doing a deeper dive would show a lot more. Now, we don't have the late round stars that I would like and can't remember the last time we did, but all this can be traced to a starting point of drafting before you even get to the idea of development.

The problem is that you (and others) have historically greatly inflated the value of our prospects so when they don't live up to it you can't understand why because there is no chance that you were wrong about any of these guys. I was laughed at by a majority of the board when I asked about whether or not Sam Morin was still a top prospect, I was laughed at when I told people to pump the breaks on Philippe Myers, or when people cried about f***ing Joacim Erikksson not being re-signed, or and a bunch of other crappy prospects that people were excited over when it was pretty evident that they weren't going to materialize. Draft better, then improve the development.
 
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blackjackmulligan

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No, if we are talking about 50 games and 12 points, there is no context needed. I don't care if the Flyers forced him to play a Mylec street hockey stick and didn't let him wear skates. If he scored 12 points doing that and then scored 12 points with Washington, that's the player he is. That isn't development or usage, that is a bad hockey player. He performed better on a SC winning team. He didn't on any other team he played for and was waived twice during that time period (we'll see where it goes this year). This isn't rocket science.

Ahh the classic, "If it doesn't fit my narrative, then the only explanation is that it happened by accident!" We have depth players. You don't like them, but we have them and have developed them and are developing them. Cates is a good example though everyone hates him because he got more money than Morgan Frost. Lindblom was looking good before cancer. Attard and Andrae appear to be on that track. Shit even Allison who you are complaining about looks like he is also trending towards being a good depth player. I'm sure doing a deeper dive would show a lot more. Now, we don't have the late round stars that I would like and can't remember the last time we did, but all this can be traced to a starting point of drafting before you even get to the idea of development.

The problem is that you (and others) have historically greatly inflated the value of our prospects so when they don't live up to it you can't understand why because there is no chance that you were wrong about any of these guys. I was laughed at by a majority of the board when I asked about whether or not Sam Morin was still a top prospect, I was laughed at when I told people to pump the breaks on Philippe Myers, or when people cried about f***ing Joacim Erikksson not being re-signed, or and a bunch of other crappy prospects that people were excited over when it was pretty evident that they weren't going to materialize. Draft better, then improve the development.
love sunshine
 

tnfrs

Registered User
Jul 19, 2023
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My assumption is they think they are done because they added Michkov and can compete vastly sooner
i think the team is comfortable with the idea that cutter and michkov are both going to be impact players, and that means our top 6 now becomes our middle 6 later when theyre both ready to take on the 1st line roles. i know not everyone agrees about and believes in michkov, but he's legit and theres an argument to be made to be ready for when he gets here to take advantage of the elc savings
 

FromOyVey2Matvei

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Jul 15, 2023
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He didn't get a look. He sat.

Games in the NHL would have been more valuable than 3 playoff games under Lappy.
We're back in Beef fantasy land again... Zamula was recalled on March 20th. Played each of the Flyers next 3 games before being returned to the Phantoms on March 28th. The same exact date we returned Foerster for the purposes of having the Phantoms make a playoff push.

You can disagree with that development strategy till the cows come home, but the Flyers are far from the only team that values their prospects playing big minutes of meaningful, competitive playoff hockey instead of getting 3rd/4th line minutes on an NHL team playing for nothing waiting for the season to end.
 
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wasup

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Mar 21, 2018
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Just going by Tort's pressure he said Errson is # 2 so Sandstrom is the odd man out JR Avon is still here so once cleared will be going down . That's down to 24 players .

My best guess from the way he talked is Emil will probably go down over Big Z cause he is waiver exempt . Also one of Forester or Brink could go down cause they are competing for the 3LW spot and he wants them both to be playing not sitting in the stands . But if Emil goes down they are at 23 so they have time .
 

dragonoffrost

It'll be a cold day...
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So signing a 24 year old center is blocking a 26 year old center?
Deslauriers wasn't signed, he was inherited.

How often is someone mediocre in the AHL but good enough to start in the NHL?
Signing anyone outside of your organization for a known role that should be used to check your prospects you have during a rebuild blocks what you frin seeing have in your organization....is the point. They signed Hathaway and Poehling knowing they needed to see the current contracted players in order to see what they had. But defend the authority away.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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They said it. Briere has also echoed the short timeline. So has Tortorella.

Their actions on non trades only make sense if they believe the end is near.
Torts said last year that it may take longer than his current contract (4 years).
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
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Exactly... he's not some neophyte outsider... he understands that a large portion of our most passionate fans are neanderthals that absolutely loved when Snider would break the bank for the free agent du jour and never rebuild.

There is absolutely zero upside in going on sports talk radio, whose listenership skews overwhelmingly towards those boomer neanderthal fans and telling them "hey, we're probably gonna suck for 3-5 years. Strap in."

He got put on the spot and threw out a palatable timeline. Because one of his chief jobs in his new role is being a salesman. He's at nearly every team event for fans/season ticketholders for a reason.

There's far less upside to sell an impossible thing. Nah, this is something they believe. It's why they're holding on to guys like Laughton.
 

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