Training Camp 2023

[deadhead]

Lineup LOCKS aren't a dripping sink.

And as we all have told you Staal and Seeler are both locks while youth who EARNED a spot are not

Who earned a spot in camp?
Zamula, who looks to be Sanheim's partner
Ersson
Brink after a slow start
Foerster was solid, but not as impressive as his late season cameo.

Who else?
Andrae flashed but was also mistake prone
Allison was up and down, they're trying him at LW to make a role for him
Laczynski was OK, but Poehling clearly out played him
Lycksell was meh, Desnoyers wasn't physically ready for the NHL.
Attard flashed some offense, but showed he's still shaky on defense.
Tuomaala? Ginning? Brown?

 

[deadhead]

Did Laczynski get claimed off waivers?

 

[Fire Tortorella]

FWIW, Charlie said on yesterday's pod that in his talk with Jones, he recognized the organization has not had great success at developing players, and they are focused on changing that. They have started by letting some people go, hiring new people, and looking at resources as well.

Is the podcast now behind a pay wall?

 

[bennysflyers16]

Tomm lineup is your team, don't kid yourself.

Zamula will not make the starting lineup.

 

[VladDrag]

Did Laczynski get claimed off waivers?

I thought waivers claims were announced at 3, but I could be wrong here.

 

[flyersnorth]

Is the podcast now behind a pay wall?

No, it's now called PHLY Flyers, and it's just Charlie and Bill for the most part. They have guests occasionally - Jim Jackson was on for an hour the other day, for example.

It's a lot more focused than BSH Radio.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The "ones that count" are the ones where you prioritize long-term development.

Someone like Allison, who at 26 is not part of a rebuild (durability, age, upside) can be yo-yo'd, exposed on waivers, if you can't find a trade partner, etc.
Someone like Foerster is being groomed for a starting spot, whether this year or next year.

Development at the AHL level is more valuable for the second tier guys who might surprise, the top guys simply shouldn't be there that long - but maybe you can teach Attard defense or Grans to be more consistent. If I were judging development it would be how often are they able to take a 2nd tier guys and turn them into useful NHL players after a couple seasons in the AHL. Of course, if you have mostly 3rd tier guys, you're asking for miracles.

Pre-determined outcomes. Arrogance. Always a next year. Focus on what players can’t do rather than what they can. All Flyers hallmarks. All major problems.

Tell me it’s a new regime and it may change and I may not agree, but at least I see the approach. Things were fundamentally broken for a long time. Neither of us knows if they’re fixed yet.

 

[BillDineen]

Tomm lineup is your team, don't kid yourself.

Zamula will not make the starting lineup.

Watching Staal and Walker from the box will help his development

 

[deadhead]

From Bills' twitter:

* Torts confirmed Ersson will be Hart's backup entering the season, although Sandström still in camp.
* Tuomaala is "nicked", which is why he skated with Avon and neither have been sent down yet.
* Hart will start in goal tomorrow and play the whole game

8 defensemen practicing today -- Sanheim, RR, York, Seeler, Walker, Zamula, Andrae, Staal. Attard and Ginning not practicing (AHL assignment?)

Tortorella reiterated that org priority on D is to get playing time for younger D. Has said a few times in camp that he will periodically sit Staal. Seeler and Walker also vets in that boat. However, tomorrow night in preseason finale, Staal, Seeler and Walker will all play.


They haven't played Staal, Seeler, and Walker much, so probably want to get them a "warm up" game.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Watching Staal and Walker from the box will help his development

Staal and Nicky D being locks with limited preseason play tells us all we need to know.

 

[deadhead]

More interesting was Laughton/Allison rotating at 3LW.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

?? He's been fine in Washington.

I object entirely to the idea of set roles. Just get the most out of each player. Foster their strengths. Allison was a feisty, tenacious forechecker like NAK, who could drive offensive possession and help create chances. Like they did with NAK he's been reduced to just banging bodies around the boards before just banging the puck around the boards.

He put up similar numbers in Washington to what he did here, and yet Washington is using him correctly and we were not? This is why I differentiated between usage and development. Development is a progression. If we didn't develop him properly but Colorado did, presumably that would continue in Washington. If it is a matter of "usage" that is not the same thing as development. Colorado used him in a way that he had a career high points. When he went to Washington (after being waived I believe by Toronto) he put up similar points as he did in Philly. That doesn't sound like developmental issues. It sounds like a player that isn't that good had a good year with the best team in the league, then went back to where he has been his entire career.

Do you object to set roles or do you just object to set roles you don't like? Because it sounds like you have a set role in mind for him, one that is different than the Flyers (and one that at least based on everything I can find from the draft time period is the role that seemingly most thought he would play...a grinding power forward. It sounds like what you wanted is for the Flyers to develop him into something he is not. You want to play to foster a player's strengths, but for some reason a guy whose strength is his size and physicality is not something you want to foster (or maybe you want it fostered differently)? Seems weird for a guy that objects to set roles and wants to foster players strengths to want to give him a different set role and not foster his strengths.

This begs the question which again you aren't answering...what do you expect the Flyers to do differently with any of these players? Provide an example rather than just saying broadly that you don't like what they are doing. You don't want Allison banging bodies around the boards, so what should they be doing instead? Who is another player you are currently concerned about the development? York? Frost? Foerster? What would you do differently? Would be helpful to if you gave an actual response instead of just saying something like "York should be more offensive!" or "Frost should get more power play time!" or just saying that they screwed up player X or Y. That's not really a solution, that's yelling "SHOOT!!!!" for two straight minutes on the power play. Nor is it a solution to revert to the false narrative of refusing to play young guys or small guys which is what started me down this rabbit hole.

I cannot stress enough I agree with you on the overall point that this team sucks at development, but it as big if not a bigger problem that they can't draft for shit. That includes NAK and Allison and the laundry list of other shitty players they have drafted. You can't develop if you can't draft.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Who earned a spot in camp?
Zamula, who looks to be Sanheim's partner
Ersson
Brink after a slow start
Foerster was solid, but not as impressive as his late season cameo.

Who else?
Andrae flashed but was also mistake prone
Allison was up and down, they're trying him at LW to make a role for him
Laczynski was OK, but Poehling clearly out played him
Lycksell was meh, Desnoyers wasn't physically ready for the NHL.
Attard flashed some offense, but showed he's still shaky on defense.
Tuomaala? Ginning? Brown?

the vets in front of them should not be. A rebuilding team finds out what they have to offer then moves on if they offer nothing.

There is no value in playing seller, nd and stall at this time.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

It's been fun to watch the narrative shift from "they'll never let these young guys make the roster" to now "these young guys will never play, they're just going to sit in the press box!"

When they inevitably do get to play and Torts sits the vets in some type of rotation exactly as he says he's going to do, it will be similarly enjoyable to watch the narrative switch to "we're misusing these young players just like we did with NAK!"

 

[dragonoffrost]

Did Laczynski get claimed off waivers?

This is not a good support of the argument that he shouldn't be on the NHL roster.

He should have had a spot to fight for with among other prospect not NHL leftovers from other teams. Signing people like Poehling/Hathaway/Delauriers when you are in a rebuild is not good asset management. During a rebuild you use the 4th line/3rd D pair as tryout positions. This is the whole point you keep missing.

Edit to add: Funny that you said last year the revolving door was going to happen now you totally argue it shouldn't happen because the players didn't beat out dreck in training camp.

 

[Don Nachbaur 26]

Is the podcast now behind a pay wall?

shouldn't be.

 

[bennysflyers16]

More interesting was Laughton/Allison rotating at 3LW.

You think they will sit the Captain ????

Whatever is below zero is what the chances are of Torts MVP sitting.

 

[tnfrs]

Focus on what players can’t do rather than what they can.

thats actually a fair point to make. i think theyve been trying that with foerster on the PP but theyll probably give up before he finds the timing instead of making adjustments on the fly and fine tuning it

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

This is not a good support of the argument that he shouldn't be on the NHL roster.

He should have had a spot to fight for with among other prospect not NHL leftovers from other teams. Signing people like Poehling/Hathaway/Delauriers when you are in a rebuild is not good asset management. During a rebuild you use the 4th line/3rd D pair as tryout positions. This is the whole point you keep missing.

Edit to add: Funny that you said last year the revolving door was going to happen now you totally argue it shouldn't happen because the players didn't beat out dreck in training camp.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not necessarily a fan of Poehling... the one time I really focused on him since his arrival here (the most recent Boston game which I attended in person) I thought he flat out sucked...

But with that being said, Poehling is 24. Laczynski is 26. Allison is 25. It would seem to me that Poehling is exactly the type of younger player you'd bring in to compete with those guys for a roster spot.

Hathaway and Deslauriers... not so much.

 

[landsbergfan]

Andrae and Zamula staying over Attard (and Ginning lol) is a nice surprise. surely they wont sit, right??? RIGHT???

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Did Laczynski get claimed off waivers?

Everyone in the NHL cleared.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Andrae and Zamula staying over Attard (and Ginning lol) is a nice surprise. surely they wont sit, right??? RIGHT???

40-60 games of watching Risto and Staalsy from the press box will do wonders for their development.

 

[deadhead]

This is not a good support of the argument that he shouldn't be on the NHL roster.

He should have had a spot to fight for with among other prospect not NHL leftovers from other teams. Signing people like Poehling/Hathaway/Delauriers when you are in a rebuild is not good asset management. During a rebuild you use the 4th line/3rd D pair as tryout positions. This is the whole point you keep missing.

Edit to add: Funny that you said last year the revolving door was going to happen now you totally argue it shouldn't happen because the players didn't beat out dreck in training camp.

So signing a 24 year old center is blocking a 26 year old center?
Deslauriers wasn't signed, he was inherited.

How often is someone mediocre in the AHL but good enough to start in the NHL?

 

[Beef Invictus]

He put up similar numbers in Washington to what he did here, and yet Washington is using him correctly and we were not? This is why I differentiated between usage and development. Development is a progression. If we didn't develop him properly but Colorado did, presumably that would continue in Washington. If it is a matter of "usage" that is not the same thing as development. Colorado used him in a way that he had a career high points. When he went to Washington (after being waived I believe by Toronto) he put up similar points as he did in Philly. That doesn't sound like developmental issues. It sounds like a player that isn't that good had a good year with the best team in the league, then went back to where he has been his entire career.

Do you object to set roles or do you just object to set roles you don't like? Because it sounds like you have a set role in mind for him, one that is different than the Flyers (and one that at least based on everything I can find from the draft time period is the role that seemingly most thought he would play...a grinding power forward. It sounds like what you wanted is for the Flyers to develop him into something he is not. You want to play to foster a player's strengths, but for some reason a guy whose strength is his size and physicality is not something you want to foster (or maybe you want it fostered differently)? Seems weird for a guy that objects to set roles and wants to foster players strengths to want to give him a different set role and not foster his strengths.

This begs the question which again you aren't answering...what do you expect the Flyers to do differently with any of these players? Provide an example rather than just saying broadly that you don't like what they are doing. You don't want Allison banging bodies around the boards, so what should they be doing instead? Who is another player you are currently concerned about the development? York? Frost? Foerster? What would you do differently? Would be helpful to if you gave an actual response instead of just saying something like "York should be more offensive!" or "Frost should get more power play time!" or just saying that they screwed up player X or Y. That's not really a solution, that's yelling "SHOOT!!!!" for two straight minutes on the power play. Nor is it a solution to revert to the false narrative of refusing to play young guys or small guys which is what started me down this rabbit hole.

I cannot stress enough I agree with you on the overall point that this team sucks at development, but it as big if not a bigger problem that they can't draft for shit. That includes NAK and Allison and the laundry list of other shitty players they have drafted. You can't develop if you can't draft.

Oh boy raw points without any additional context? Really?

What do I expect? I expect players to be given a chance. I expect them to learn something deeper than the dump and grind, shallow, ooga booga hockey the Flyers teach. I expect them to be allowed to do what they're good at instead of having the team obsess over them not fitting whatever idiot role idea they've formed for them. None of these are things this team does now.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So signing a 24 year old center is blocking a 26 year old center?
Deslauriers wasn't signed, he was inherited.

How often is someone mediocre in the AHL but good enough to start in the NHL?

Briere is responsible for the Deslauriers move.