Training Camp 2023

[Beef Invictus]

It's been fun to watch the narrative shift from "they'll never let these young guys make the roster" to now "these young guys will never play, they're just going to sit in the press box!"

When they inevitably do get to play and Torts sits the vets in some type of rotation exactly as he says he's going to do, it will be similarly enjoyable to watch the narrative switch to "we're misusing these young players just like we did with NAK!"

I remember when your second paragraph was supposed to happen last season and it never did.

I remember when young guys were called up and sat out. Was only a season ago. What has changed since then?

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

I remember when your second paragraph was supposed to happen last season and it never did.

I remember when young guys were called up and sat out. Was only a season ago. What has changed since then?

The guy in charge.

It's a new era of orange, Beef. You'll learn to accept that sooner or later.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The guy in charge.

It's a new era of orange, Beef. You'll learn to accept that sooner or later.

The guy in charge was in charge when all this happened.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

For the life of me, I don't understand the mythicalization of starting the year in the NHL. It has the unmistakable stench of drawing arbitrary lines in the sand.

 

[deadhead]

For the life of me, I don't understand the mythicalization of starting the year in the NHL. It has the unmistakable stench of drawing arbitrary lines in the sand.

Especially during a rebuild, when the goal is identifying your starters for the team you're building 3-4 years in the future.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's been fun to watch the narrative shift from "they'll never let these young guys make the roster" to now "these young guys will never play, they're just going to sit in the press box!"

They had a young dman make the opening night roster last season. He played 11 of the first 27 games and was then demoted to the AHL.

I thought waivers claims were announced at 3, but I could be wrong here.

It's 2pm ET now for waivers

 

[GKJ]

It looks like the roster is pretty much set. Sandstrom has yet to be waived, Andrae I’m guessing they want him to play the last game before going down. That would make 23 not counting Avon.

 

[Curufinwe]

Surely they aren't going to carry 3 goalies?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

So signing a 24 year old center is blocking a 26 year old center?
Deslauriers wasn't signed, he was inherited.

How often is someone mediocre in the AHL but good enough to start in the NHL?

he cam be easily waived so that inherited excuse doesn't fly. A new GM should have no attachment unless he was involved in his signing while a member of the front office.

Oh boy raw points without any additional context? Really?

What do I expect? I expect players to be given a chance. I expect them to learn something deeper than the dump and grind, shallow, ooga booga hockey the Flyers teach. I expect them to be allowed to do what they're good at instead of having the team obsess over them not fitting whatever idiot role idea they've formed for them. None of these are things this team does now.

what if they were a good scorer in junior and it just doesn't translate? then what is the development team supposed to do?

 

[freakydallas13]

Especially during a rebuild, when the goal is identifying your starters for the team you're building 3-4 years in the future.

Yeah man, that's why they signed Staal and Hathaway and will keep Nic D in the lineup all season.

Because they are identifying their starters for the team 3-4 years in the future.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

The guy in charge was in charge when all this happened.

Danny Briere was in charge when this all happened?

I thought Chuck was fired on March 11th. And I thought our young players (like Foerster for example) were given opportunities and thrived after that occurred...

I also think Frost was given more opportunities and TOI after Chuckles was canned and thrived / was our best player in March/April.

I must've been imagining all that though....

 

[PALE PWNR]

Of the defense I assume Andrae or Zamula gets cut cuz can't have too many young guys in the lineup . But if they DIDNT, who does? Walker?

As for forwards seems like Allison is likely the casualty then?

 

[bennysflyers16]

Of the defense I assume Andrae or Zamula gets cut cuz can't have too many young guys in the lineup . But if they DIDNT, who does? Walker?

As for forwards seems like Allison is likely the casualty then?

Allison
Big Z
Andrae

Just like we have all been saying for months.

Sure they may get a sniff, but the leash will be so short , they will never outplay the vet slop in Lord Torts eyes.

 

[tnfrs]

Of the defense I assume Andrae or Zamula gets cut cuz can't have too many young guys in the lineup . But if they DIDNT, who does? Walker?

As for forwards seems like Allison is likely the casualty then?

torts said in the presser today that the plan is for staal to not play every game, and i imagine the same will be true of anybody whos underperfoming but it sounds like theyre gonna carry zam zam as the 7th d. the whole thing sounds very russian. they probably end up trying to move seeler or walker at some point once zamula proves himself after some games.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

They had a young dman make the opening night roster last season. He played 11 of the first 27 games and was then demoted to the AHL.

Oh, this is fun! Now riddle me this... who was he demoted in favor of? Oh that's right... an even younger, more promising defenseman... CAM YORK.

It's almost like they gave Egor a fair look, he wasn't seizing the opportunity, a more highly touted prospect was excelling in the AHL and merited the opportunity, so they made the swap.

I'll be so mad if we do something like that again this year...

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Oh boy raw points without any additional context? Really?

What do I expect? I expect players to be given a chance. I expect them to learn something deeper than the dump and grind, shallow, ooga booga hockey the Flyers teach. I expect them to be allowed to do what they're good at instead of having the team obsess over them not fitting whatever idiot role idea they've formed for them. None of these are things this team does now.

Yes raw points without any additional context. There is next to nothing that context to could add to a player having essentially identical output but one team is ruining his development and not using him correctly and the other is. If the Flyers used him wrong or f***ed up his development and he scored 12 points, why didn't he have more points with Washington? It is really weird that when he plays on bad teams he does worse than when he plays on Stanley Cup winnings teams. Alomst like maybe that had more to do with it than usage or development. Nah, couldn't be it!

As for the second part, sounds like maybe you just overvalued some prospects and rather than acknowledging the NAKs and Allisons of the world were never going to be that good. Development here is secondary to drafting. Draft better and the development will improve on its own. Still needs to be improved but the narrative as to why doesn't hold true if you look into a little more, like all the guys that have developed well...I know I know, Farabee and Konecny and Hart and York and whomever else that has had success was by accident or they would be better elsewhere or something else. Hell even Cates who people are big mad that he got more money than Frost looks like he is developing well, despite his set role and unfair treatment he has gotten! Same thing with Frost, even despite the attempts to derail him I think the argument back when he signed his new deal was that he scored like a first line player!

 

[wasup]

I just love coming on here and seeing one poster with a third of the posts on here day after day

 

[Beef Invictus]

Especially during a rebuild, when the goal is identifying your starters for the team you're building 3-4 years in the future.

It isn't a rebuild. They aren't thinking 3-4 years from now. They've said they're in Year 2 out of 3. They think they're all but done.

 

[deadhead]

Danny Briere was in charge when this all happened?

I thought Chuck was fired on March 11th. And I thought our young players (like Foerster for example) were given opportunities and thrived after that occurred...

I also think Frost was given more opportunities and TOI after Chuckles was canned and thrived / was our best player in March/April.

I must've been imagining all that though....

Frost and Cates were made the top 2 centers in December, when Hayes was first moved to wing, and when that didn't work, to 3C.

York also came up in December.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes raw points without any additional context. There is next to nothing that context to could add to a player having essentially identical output but one team is ruining his development and not using him correctly and the other is. If the Flyers used him wrong or f***ed up his development and he scored 12 points, why didn't he have more points with Washington? It is really weird that when he plays on bad teams he does worse than when he plays on Stanley Cup winnings teams. Alomst like maybe that had more to do with it than usage or development. Nah, couldn't be it!

As for the second part, sounds like maybe you just overvalued some prospects and rather than acknowledging the NAKs and Allisons of the world were never going to be that good. Development here is secondary to drafting. Draft better and the development will improve on its own. Still needs to be improved but the narrative as to why doesn't hold true if you look into a little more, like all the guys that have developed well...I know I know, Farabee and Konecny and Hart and York and whomever else that has had success was by accident or they would be better elsewhere or something else. Hell even Cates who people are big mad that he got more money than Frost looks like he is developing well, despite his set role and unfair treatment he has gotten! Same thing with Frost, even despite the attempts to derail him I think the argument back when he signed his new deal was that he scored like a first line player!

Uh yeah actually there's loads of context required when comparing players across teams or even across seasons on the same team.

There are players who are too good to fail. Players with enough talent to make things work. We have some of those players; theyve been held back, too. Sanheim is the poster child for that. This ain't about those guys that would succeed anywhere in any situation, though. It's all about the other guys. The lesser, depth guys who can be made or broken by how they're brought up. Guys with short windows where they have utility, guys who aren't going to outright win 1 on 1 most of the time. Having a system where you take what those players are good at and build them into it is how you get them to succeed. The Flyers do the opposite. Hence why they almost universally fail to develop depth in-house, which is fatal with a salary cap.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Frost and Cates were made the top 2 centers in December, when Hayes was first moved to wing, and when that didn't work, to 3C.

York also came up in December.

Frosty's TOI and Production saw a decent uptick after Chuck was canned.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It isn't a rebuild. They aren't thinking 3-4 years from now. They've said they're in Year 2 out of 3. They think they're all but done.

anything to back this up? or just your speculation?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Danny Briere was in charge when this all happened?

I thought Chuck was fired on March 11th. And I thought our young players (like Foerster for example) were given opportunities and thrived after that occurred...

I also think Frost was given more opportunities and TOI after Chuckles was canned and thrived / was our best player in March/April.

I must've been imagining all that though....

Danny Briere was in charge as Tortorella sat young players. Zamula, is an example. Briere was in charge during a dead season where they didn't use that pointless time to get NHL experience for young players. This was mere months ago.

Briere was in charge while nothing changed.

Frost's TOI increased chiefly because injuries and players leaving left them no choice. Briere likes Frost, but even that wasn't enough.

 

[Beef Invictus]

anything to back this up? or just your speculation?

They said it. Refusal to trade particular players indicates it. Words and actions align.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Uh yeah actually there's loads of context required.

There are players who are too good to fail. Players with enough talent to make things work. We have some of those players; theyve been held back, too. Sanheim is the poster child for that. This ain't about those guys that would succeed anywhere in any situation, though. It's all about the other guys. The lesser, depth guys who can be made or broken by how they're brought up. Guys with short windows where they have utility, guys who aren't going to outright win 1 on 1 most of the time. Having a system where you take what those players are good at and build them into it is how you get them to succeed. The Flyers do the opposite. Hence why they almost universally fail to develop depth in-house, which is fatal with a salary cap.

sanheim has been held back? interesting take.

You would think then teams be knocking at the door to acquire him since the flyers held him back.

They said it. Refusal to trade particular players indicates it. Words and actions align.

they said they are almost done rebuilding? would love to see that quote.

not trading those player just shows incompetence at the moment. Doesn't indicate they are almost done rebuilding.