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Trading out the core for a rebuild?

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I think finally, Lombardi realized this season that; this league is a 20-28 year old's league.

Not a 29-35+ year old player's league.
 
Don't blow up anything just yet, first a coaching change + youth injection and see where it takes us.
 
damacles1156 said:
I agree.

Systems don't make players fast, The players, make the system fast.
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100% agree, now my questions is after the whole incident last season about players locking DS out of the locker room has to have legs seeing how some guys have gone stale..

our system is like to stay in place the questions id will our coach???
 
damacles1156 said:
I agree.

Systems don't make players fast, The players, make the system fast.
Click to expand...

While this in part is true, with a system that is so defensive and grinding of the boards such a big part it does make the team slower as we don't "cheat" heading out of our zone which in turn makes the transition game a lot slower than many of the teams in the league.
 
The Kings aren't slow, and won't be in the future. It's the system that grinds things to a halt; we have literally no quick-strike transition game to speak of--RARELY do we use DOughty/Muzzin/Martinez's et als ability to smoke a pass to a forward (like Gaborik) at the opposing blueline for a breakaway, rarely do we try to get rush chances, etc. Most of the time the play is FREEZE, hold the puck, start controlled breakout while other team sets up their defense. It doesn't work anymore for any number of reasons, but it's not because the personnel aren't fast/skilled, those guys should be able to hang with literally anyone. The 'slow' players we have I can count on one hand, and that's...Toffoli? Iginla? Pearson, Carter, Gaborik, Kempe, Brown and in the future Wagner etc. these guys CAN play speed. They don't.
 
damacles1156 said:
I agree.

Systems don't make players fast, The players, make the system fast.
Click to expand...

This is the same system we had in 2012 when no one had a chance in hell against us in the playoffs. Those were some of the quickest breakouts and transitions I've seen from any team over an extended period. Yes, just as fast as the faster teams like Detroit when they were winning. Once we retrieved that puck it was on the boards and onto a forwards stick before the other team knew it.

I'm an advocate of replacing Sutter, but it's certainly not because of his system per se. It's that his system requires motivated, hungry players and he can no longer get that out of them.
 
Fishhead said:
This is the same system we had in 2012 when no one had a chance in hell against us in the playoffs. Those were some of the quickest breakouts and transitions I've seen from any team over an extended period. Yes, just as fast as the faster teams like Detroit when they were winning. Once we retrieved that puck it was on the boards and onto a forwards stick before the other team knew it.

I'm an advocate of replacing Sutter, but it's certainly not because of his system per se. It's that his system requires motivated, hungry players and he can no longer get that out of them.
Click to expand...

This x 10.
 
When the Kings were dominant from 2012-2014 they transitioned out of their own zone with ease. There were short stick-to-stick passes of no more than 20-feet. No team can out skate the puck. The Kings forwards were committed to coming all the way back to make the break out work and the defensemen were accurate with their passes.

I agree with the posters saying it's on the players to execute the system. The system supports smart hockey players willing to support the puck. When the puck moves quickly and accurately, the fastest skating team in the NHL can't keep up.

The other noticeable difference between this team and the successful teams of the past is the issue damacles brought up. The Kings don't make opposing teams earn their ice. The Kings used to be the fiercest hitting team in the NHL. Now they are *****cats.
 
Fishhead said:
This is the same system we had in 2012 when no one had a chance in hell against us in the playoffs. Those were some of the quickest breakouts and transitions I've seen from any team over an extended period. Yes, just as fast as the faster teams like Detroit when they were winning. Once we retrieved that puck it was on the boards and onto a forwards stick before the other team knew it.

I'm an advocate of replacing Sutter, but it's certainly not because of his system per se. It's that his system requires motivated, hungry players and he can no longer get that out of them.
Click to expand...

I went back to rewatch a few snippets of games and I think two other things stand out. One is the physical play--opponents always heard footsteps which made our forecheck more effective because they would turn it over; how often does that happen now? We just get passed around because there is zero fear. Second is those teams weren't scared to just start moving the puck forward and quickly which is also why it was much more aggressive north-south; now we spend so much time freezing the breakout to bring the puck back and play ping-pong between the two d-men that it allows the entire opposing team to set up five landmines between the red line and their blueline. That part is twofold--we wouldn't have taken SO much care in the past, but the neutral zone trap is also back in the game hard, and we ALWAYS struggled with passive teams even when Sutter first got here. Aggressive teams and better teams cause us very little trouble, even know.

I'm mostly agreeing with you, just expanding on what I saw too. It's partially us not executing, partially system changes...I don't think the guys CANT play it anymore, it's just faulty and the same stubbornness that brought us championships is currently bringing us to ruin. Sutter is an amazing coach and got a lot out of a 2012 roster that wasn't fantastic but he got nothing out of this roster and precioius little the last couple of years as well. We went from overperforming to completely underperforming--that's a coaching issue, and one that could be as simple as "we need a new voice."
 
You can't fire all the players so you have to change the system to something that will work. Its not like Sutter would want to wait around while we rebuild another team that fits his system.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I went back to rewatch a few snippets of games and I think two other things stand out. One is the physical play--opponents always heard footsteps which made our forecheck more effective because they would turn it over; how often does that happen now? We just get passed around because there is zero fear. Second is those teams weren't scared to just start moving the puck forward and quickly which is also why it was much more aggressive north-south; now we spend so much time freezing the breakout to bring the puck back and play ping-pong between the two d-men that it allows the entire opposing team to set up five landmines between the red line and their blueline. That part is twofold--we wouldn't have taken SO much care in the past, but the neutral zone trap is also back in the game hard, and we ALWAYS struggled with passive teams even when Sutter first got here. Aggressive teams and better teams cause us very little trouble, even know.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of that back and forth between defense is because we have a lot of inexperience back there. The hope is they get comfortable and can start moving the puck quickly. It's amazing how different this team is when they move the puck quickly. I know that it appears that the defense is fine and the offense is the problem, but the biggest problem with scoring this year is not getting the puck to forwards with speed. Forbort and Gravel can make fine breakout passes, they are just slow as molasses at doing it. It's not reactionary for them yet, and that fear of making a mistake is in the back of their mind.

I'm praying that in a year or two we can get the play rolling from our backend better.
 
Fishhead said:
This is the same system we had in 2012 when no one had a chance in hell against us in the playoffs. Those were some of the quickest breakouts and transitions I've seen from any team over an extended period. Yes, just as fast as the faster teams like Detroit when they were winning. Once we retrieved that puck it was on the boards and onto a forwards stick before the other team knew it.

I'm an advocate of replacing Sutter, but it's certainly not because of his system per se. It's that his system requires motivated, hungry players and he can no longer get that out of them.
Click to expand...

Hard to believe, but my math tells me 2012 was five years ago. Teams have figured the Kings out and passed them by.
 
lumbergh said:
Hard to believe, but my math tells me 2012 was five years ago. Teams have figured the Kings out and passed them by.
Click to expand...

Every team knows what every other team is doing. Nobody shocks anybody with some surprise twist before a game. People want a new coach to come in so that the new coach does exactly what every other team is doing. People want a new GM to come in and build the same team every other GM has built.

There are no secrets in the game of hockey Marty. It was, is, and will always be about executing whatever it is that you're trying to do.
 
Hockeyman999 said:
If Sutter is fired who is the most likely person to replace him?
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Sutter can't be fired, per the understanding when he signed the current deal, the only way he goes is if he leaves on his own. That said, if the rumors about DL being ,moved to a new office/title and a new GM being appointed, the new coach would be up to him.
It might be STevens (whose system is NOT like SUtters, if it's the same one he used in Philly, where 2 of the 3 years offense was in top 5 in the NHL) or might be a someone else, maybe even Gallant.
Not Ruff (I like him but don't see him as a fit) who will be needing a new gig.
 
Either way I hope Lombardi/New GM tries to trade up into the top 5 if the Kings don't hit the lottery. We need a blue chip prospect but if course we keep our first in a weak draft
 
Sacha Baron Corbin said:
Either way I hope Lombardi/New GM tries to trade up into the top 5 if the Kings don't hit the lottery. We need a blue chip prospect but if course we keep our first in a weak draft
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Right now it's Col, Ari, NJ, Van, and Det in the top 5. What are they taking for their pick? Martinez won't do it. Maybe Muzzin. Maybe. Not going by this year, but maybe. Toffoli or Pearson might. None of those teams need Carter though. They could use him, but he'll be 33 next January. What does he do for rebuilding teams? I mean, he's wasted a season on the Kings already.
 
deeshamrock said:
Sutter can't be fired, per the understanding when he signed the current deal, the only way he goes is if he leaves on his own.
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No offense, but that sounds like BS...especially when his 'new' deal came on the heels of getting smoked by SJ in the first round. Where did you get this info?
 
At least we finally have a high first round pick.

Steve Koleaus and Mike Johnson asked EJ Radek about the Kings this morning and he said the same thing everyone else says...old, slow, terrible contracts, DL's loyalty got the best of him, Kings miss Voynov and he screwed the pouch on Mike Richards compliance buyout.
 
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